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06-23-2008, 11:16 PM   #31
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ISO3200 ones:











07-06-2008, 10:02 AM   #32
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ISO 6400 F2.2 1/15s


07-06-2008, 03:47 PM   #33
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This is a JPG, which has only been modified by downsizing. I was amazed with even the 100 percent shot. Auto Takumar 1: 1.8/55 @ f5.6. The rest of the EXIF data is in tact. I was failing miserably with K20 high ISO, until I uttilized Pentax Poke's advice to expose to the right--thanks! ISO 6400

Attachment 15048


Regards,

Ernest

Last edited by Jewelltrail; 09-24-2009 at 09:40 AM.
07-07-2008, 10:30 AM   #34
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How about an ISO 1600 shot from a K10D ??

I took this using the K10D at ISO 1600..

These are JPEG's straight from the camera, NOT converted RAW files. No post-processing, nothing..

I thought I'd post these up for comparison to show how proper exposure can really make the difference when shooting ISO 1600 and up..

First image uses built-in flash, second used no flash.. (BIG FILES)
ISO 1600 K10D w/ FLASH
ISO 1600 K10D


Last edited by Tom M; 07-07-2008 at 10:42 AM.
07-07-2008, 10:32 AM   #35
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tom, how about you post a small picture to get your point across and then LINK to the original file so as to not stretch the forum?

thank you.
07-07-2008, 10:40 AM   #36
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love the attitude..

Anyway, that's what was intended..

here's the small images.. you can click on the links in my previous post for the full-size jpgs..



07-07-2008, 12:32 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
I thought I'd post these up for comparison to show how proper exposure can really make the difference when shooting ISO 1600 and up..
Have tried with my K10D, but have managed to get worse noise levels even with ISO 800 in comparision to your 1600. Could you elaborate on your point above ? How did you achieve such low noise ?

Example pics of what I was talking about --> Picasa Web Albums - Nishanth - Wimbledon 2008

(100% crop of this above image shot at ISO 800 is noisier than your pictures shot at 1600) Wondering where did the exposure go wrong in my case.

Cheers
Nish
07-07-2008, 01:34 PM   #38
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A few things..

First, DA lenses in my experience tend to have a stronger red and blue channel. Meaning, reds and blues really pop with DA lenses. However, this pop is bad when dealing with noise. First rule, don't use a DA lens for high ISO work.

Second, use your sharpest lens possible, preferably a cold lens. Meaning, a lens that tends to produce images a little on the colder side. As in my case I used the Viv S1 105mm.

Third, when dealing with JPG's straight from the camera do the following. Reduce the saturation all the way and reduce the contrast some (you'll see that doing so does not have as much effect on the resulting image as you might think - look at my two up there)..

That's pretty much it. As you can see you can get great images straight from the camera without noise ninja or any other processing. Again, those two images are straight from the camera.

Last trick..

With the K10D or ANY Pentax camera that has a multiple-exposure feature you can use that to further reduce the noise. Obviously this is not an option for all photos but for static scenes it's the best thing going. Remember, shoot in JPG mode, reduce saturation -3, contrast -2 or -3. Also, make sure the color mode is normal, not bright.. Set the camera to multi-exposure mode to take 2 exposures. Take the two shots (steady on a tripod is always best), let the camera merge the two shots and enjoy your nearly noise free ISO 1600 images..

I never did understand all the complaining about the K10D and it's ISO 1600 performance.. lol - I can't imagine what I could get away with if I used a K20D...

07-07-2008, 01:46 PM   #39
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Cheers Tom....very informative. Added this to my guide and will definitely try this out and make my own comparision.

Thanks again
Nish
07-07-2008, 09:06 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
A few things..

First, DA lenses in my experience tend to have a stronger red and blue channel. Meaning, reds and blues really pop with DA lenses. However, this pop is bad when dealing with noise. First rule, don't use a DA lens for high ISO work.

Second, use your sharpest lens possible, preferably a cold lens. Meaning, a lens that tends to produce images a little on the colder side. As in my case I used the Viv S1 105mm.

....
Wow, I hadn't heard this little nugget, but I've noticed in the past that my Viv 105 gives me the best high-ISO performance (ISO 800 - 3200) of pretty much any of my lenses... Now it makes sense. Thx for the good info.


.
07-08-2008, 07:28 AM   #41
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No problem guys. I figure why should everyone have to go through all the headache I did in trying to figure out how to get good high ISO images.

If anyone likes, they can examine the EXIF data on the two images I linked to to get the exact details of the shot so they could mimic it to see how it works out for them. The two smaller images should have the same EXIF however I resized them in Picasa and lord knows what that program did to the EXIF..

I suspect the reason the multiple-exposure mode knocks so much of the noise out is that all the pixels are in different places for the second shot and when it merges the images it likely only uses 'like color' pixels and simply eliminates the hot red and blue speckled around, that combined with TWO black frame subtractions because there was two exposures seems to do the trick. As far as reducing the saturation goes, well, that's self-explanatory as it also means a less-saturated red and blue noise. And finally, reducing the contrast does exactly that, it lessens the harsh contrast areas that noise likes to hide in..

I wish someone could use these techniques and show us some 1600 or 3200 K20D shots.. I bet they're insanely clean and sharp as even my K10D shots look better than dpreview's CaNikon flagship camera high ISO examples.

This might be a stretch but, I think if someone who's proficient (Not I) with PS and other programs for manipulating images were to 'clean up' those two 1600 shots I posted, you could probably pass them off as ISO 200 to 400 shots.. Maybe even better? I dunno..

Last edited by Tom M; 07-08-2008 at 07:36 AM.
09-01-2008, 02:40 PM   #42
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Took these on a small alternative music festivall in my home town. Iso 1600 on all of them. Pentax K20D, Pentax DA 35/2,8 Macro Limited. All of the pictures have gotten a mild threatment in noise ninja. (standard settings, just did the profile image and ran it)

(The guards looked at my camera and asked if I wanted to get up on the stage to get some shots done, well thank you Mr guard Id love too. Never knew you got that just because you had a dslr :P )
Was another photog there, flithy canon shoter, used a flash, ha, he got no cool light effect on his shots :P









09-02-2008, 01:59 PM   #43
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Wow! I thought Pentax AF was not fast enough? Badminton is pretty quick.


QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Got chance to shoot a Internation Badminton Open a couple weeks ago. Here are some of what I got. All shots are straight out of the camera in JPG, AFC w/ K20D+FA*80-200, only resize and applied abit USM.

ISO1600 ones:











09-11-2008, 02:24 AM   #44
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I have a K10D, so I can't comment on the K20D, but I've been thinking about getting a K20D, just for the better high ISO performance.

Until I actually used high ISO, for other purposed than testing and pixel peeping.

I recently shot a wedding (not the one I've posted pictures from), where I took a lot of pictures at 1600 ISO (and some flash) - but when we moved outside I forgot to turn down the ISO again and I shot a lot of pics while still at 1600... of cause there was "a lot" of noise. I wanted to kill my self, when I finally noticed it.

But I took the chance and printed them anyway. And you know what? They look great. Even at A4 sizes. Yes, there's noise in them, but it really doesn't matter. Sometimes noise is good, as long as it doesn't steal the picture. Nobody noticed, except the groom, but he used to do digital backs for phaseOne, so I kind of expected that from him.

So, in conclusion, I've learned to relax and not worry to much about the noise.

Oh, and at the recent wedding I actually found my self wishing for a fast wide lens (my only wide lens is the sigma 17-70, which goes to f/3.5 really fast), more than higher ISO. Oh, and a small reflector for the flash.

Meanwhile the K20D is getting cheaper every day, and maybe a K20D super will be on the street before my CBA gets the better of me.

Now, go take photos....
09-11-2008, 02:42 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by tcdk Quote
(snip...)
But I took the chance and printed them anyway. And you know what? They look great. Even at A4 sizes. Yes, there's noise in them, but it really doesn't matter. Sometimes noise is good, as long as it doesn't steal the picture. (...snip)
Don't cloud the issue with facts. (That's supposed to be humor.)

You're right, of course. The noise that people complain about is really not that big of a deal. I like the high ISO capability of the K20D over the K10D, but it's not a show stopper on the K10D.

I will say that the noise from the K20D doesn't seem to bother me as much. Perhaps it's that $1200 I paid that's keeping me from complaining.
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