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12-07-2014, 09:48 PM   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
As for that crap SLT adapter - lose 30% of your FF light,
It's 1/3 of a stop and that small light loss gives you the ability to AF with more lenses than even Canon got released. That's not bad in my eyes. The pricing is almost the same as big brand Leica helicoid adapters and they are way dumber.

12-08-2014, 12:54 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
It's 1/3 of a stop and that small light loss gives you the ability to AF with more lenses than even Canon got released. That's not bad in my eyes. The pricing is almost the same as big brand Leica helicoid adapters and they are way dumber.
It just put back a mirror and turn the thing into a mirror body by definition then. That's not really an argument for mirrorless.
12-08-2014, 12:56 AM   #453
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I think that the market shares of the DSLR cameras starting from the entry-level segment are going to reduce in favor of mirrorless systems.
At that point the traditional producers must undertake to produce serious mirrorless for avoid to loss futher margin of profit.
Also I think mirrorless systems are able to have a faster level of technological advancement because the mechanical parts are reduced to a minimum.
So I do not think that will require much time before the performance (AF in primis) will be comparable.
12-08-2014, 03:41 AM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
It's 1/3 of a stop and that small light loss gives you the ability to AF with more lenses than even Canon got released. That's not bad in my eyes. The pricing is almost the same as big brand Leica helicoid adapters and they are way dumber.
I haven't used it, but reviews say that auto focus with the LAEA4 adapter slows down a lot in less than optimal light. This sort of thing is a bridge until Sony can come up with lens designs for the new shorter mount. It certainly doesn't match the functionality of mounting an EOS mount lens on an 6D, say, and shooting in any situation.

12-08-2014, 04:12 AM   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
As for that crap SLT adapter - lose 30% of your FF light, AF points clustered around the centre, all for an extra six ounces, two inches and an insulting $350, just to try and even the score with DSLRs and run decent telephotos?
The 30% is incorrect. Please check your facts. As stated by another member, it's a third of a stop. Moreover, it confirms how a mirror messes with the AF by removing light to the AF sensor. It is one of the reasons why on-sensor PDAF in mirrorless cameras is more accurate then via a seperate tiny light-deprived sensors. And furthermore, you don't seem to understand exactly what Sony's ugly adapter is. It is a fully functioning mirrorbox. Currently the Sony is the only manufacturer that allows an exchangable mount/mirrorbox system. If pentax ever moves to mirrorless at all, I very seriously doubt if they will provide such backwards compatibility.
12-08-2014, 04:16 AM   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
your video is nearly 4 years old, and it's for an a77 camera, not an lea4??

I come back to this thread to see you're digging yourself deeper and deeper.


Osv, you'll actually *wish* it was the rubbish on the A77.


But isn't it more likely to be the crap from the even older A55?


- APS-C, not FF.


- Just 15 points in the centre of the frame, compared to the cheaper K-3's 27.


- 3 of them cross points, compared to the cheaper K-3's 25.


- Low light level focus? You tell us. The cheaper K-3 is -3eV. I bet this thing comes nowhere near it.

Last edited by clackers; 12-08-2014 at 04:24 AM.
12-08-2014, 04:20 AM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
wrong, lol... aperture is not determined by the camera's mirror.

It's not the lens and its aperture that's affected by the SLT, it's what this trinket does to the light on its way to the sensor.


I've seen people say they don't like the idea of the DA21 because you only get the light gathering of f3.2.


Well, congratulations, that's what happens to your $3000 f2.8 Sony zoom!


Unfortunately, putting an expensive and rubbish adapter in front of your A7R doesn't make a DSLR.

Last edited by clackers; 12-08-2014 at 04:34 AM.
12-08-2014, 04:22 AM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
trying to decipher poor english is a hassle, not an insult.

you should be thankful that i took the time to clarify what you posted.

Even better, turns out you're a racist!

Didn't you make an accusation of bigotry earlier in this thread?


Pot, meet kettle.

12-08-2014, 04:42 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The 30% is incorrect. Please check your facts. As stated by another member, it's a third of a stop. Moreover, it confirms how a mirror messes with the AF by removing light to the AF sensor. It is one of the reasons why on-sensor PDAF in mirrorless cameras is more accurate then via a seperate tiny light-deprived sensors. And furthermore, you don't seem to understand exactly what Sony's ugly adapter is. It is a fully functioning mirrorbox. Currently the Sony is the only manufacturer that allows an exchangable mount/mirrorbox system. If pentax ever moves to mirrorless at all, I very seriously doubt if they will provide such backwards compatibility.
It confirms how sticking a mirror box on a mirrorless camera "messes with auto focus." An SLR camera is designed to have the auto focus module it has and while it isn't perfect (even PDAF points on the sensor isn't perfect), it functions quite a bit better than this adapter. I would just say that the adapter gives you maybe 80 percent of the functionality of what those lenses would have if they were mounted on a true alpha mount camera. That's probably the best Sony can do for the present, but it is just a fill in till they get a true lens line up for the full frame mirrorless cameras they sell.

Certainly this amazing adapter is not the reason to buy a full frame NEX.
12-08-2014, 05:53 AM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It confirms how sticking a mirror box on a mirrorless camera "messes with auto focus." An SLR camera is designed to have the auto focus module it has and while it isn't perfect (even PDAF points on the sensor isn't perfect), it functions quite a bit better than this adapter. I would just say that the adapter gives you maybe 80 percent of the functionality of what those lenses would have if they were mounted on a true alpha mount camera. That's probably the best Sony can do for the present, but it is just a fill in till they get a true lens line up for the full frame mirrorless cameras they sell.
What's with the making figures up on the spot? A mirror messes with the AF period. That's why the newest mirrorless cameras are suprassing DSLRs now in AF tracking. And it's still getting better. The Milcs are, as many here have stated, still in its infancy. Whilst DSLRs are out-developed. There is very little room for improvement there. So, the gap in AF-performance between MILCs and DSLRs is only going to become bigger and bigger.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Certainly this amazing adapter is not the reason to buy a full frame NEX.
You really think it's intended to pull customers?! Oh my...

Last edited by Clavius; 12-08-2014 at 06:02 AM.
12-08-2014, 07:12 AM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What's with the making figures up on the spot? A mirror messes with the AF period. That's why the newest mirrorless cameras are suprassing DSLRs now in AF tracking. And it's still getting better. The Milcs are, as many here have stated, still in its infancy. Whilst DSLRs are out-developed. There is very little room for improvement there. So, the gap in AF-performance between MILCs and DSLRs is only going to become bigger and bigger.



You really think it's intended to pull customers?! Oh my...
Are you saying that you think a Sony full frame NEX equipped with an alpha mount lens -- say a 70-200 f2.8 -- will have equivalent focusing capability to a Nikon D600 and the Nikon 70-200 f2.8? I think the answer is no. The problem here is not the mirrorless aspect, it is the adapter between the lens and the camera.

It is all well and good to say that it is in its infancy, but it still emphasizes the fact that sticking a mirror on a mirrorless camera is a kludge. New lenses are needed and Sony as good as has said that with their lens map looking the way it does.
12-08-2014, 07:26 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Are you saying that you think a Sony full frame NEX equipped with an alpha mount lens -- say a 70-200 f2.8 -- will have equivalent focusing capability to a Nikon D600 and the Nikon 70-200 f2.8?
I did not say that and you know it. Come on, this is getting embaressing now.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the answer is no. The problem here is not the mirrorless aspect, it is the adapter between the lens and the camera.
True... So don't you think the adapter was intended for something else then?


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is all well and good to say that it is in its infancy, but it still emphasizes the fact that sticking a mirror on a mirrorless camera is a kludge. New lenses are needed and Sony as good as has said that with their lens map looking the way it does.
Who wants to stick mirrors in mirrorless cameras? The topic here is dying DSLRs. I sure as hell don't want to give them a second life by sticking mirrors on perfectly good MILCs.


The adapter is there for users that are very heavily invested in A-lenses. No manufacturer should ask their userbase to just dump the collection they've gathered and buy all new lenses. But Sony also doesn't want an outdated mount to get in the way of progress. Tadaa: an adapter for the legacy glass users.

I myself would prefer to just keep using a mirrored Alpha as a second body, if I was in that position. But still, it's nice of Sony to provide it.
12-08-2014, 07:30 AM   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I did not say that and you know it. Come on, this is getting embaressing now.



True... So don't you think the adapter was intended for something else then?



Who wants to stick mirrors in mirrorless cameras? The topic here is dying DSLRs. I sure as hell don't want to give them a second life by sticking mirrors on perfectly good MILCs.


The adapter is there for users that are very heavily invested in A-lenses. No manufacturer should ask their userbase to just dump the collection they've gathered and buy all new lenses. But Sony also doesn't want an outdated mount to get in the way of progress. Tadaa: an adapter for the legacy glass users.

I myself would prefer to just keep using a mirrored Alpha as a second body, if I was in that position. But still, it's nice of Sony to provide it.
I would buy a mirrorless alpha mount camera a lot faster than I would buy a NEX camera right now.

The question is what is best for Pentax. Sony has made their bed and they are lying in it. If Pentax would go mirrorless with a larger sensor, I would hope they wouldn't dump the k mount.
12-08-2014, 08:04 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scorpion Quote
Despite the fact that smaller cheaper cameras can take excellent images, I don't feel they are what photography is about. I have been using SLR cameras since 1966 (Zenith-E) and nothing can come close to the experience of seeing the optical image in a viewfinder. Obviously point and shoot cameras are more convenient from the size point of view, but give me a DSLR every time. My present from my wife this Christmas will be a K-5 II and 1.4 50mm DA lens.
We aren't (or at least, I wasn't) comparing DSLRs with "smaller cheaper cameras" or with "point and shoot cameras". My Olympus E-M5 is smaller but definitely not cheaper than my K-5 II. Actually, I seem to recall the E-M5 cost about twice as much. And of course, the E-M5 is most definitely not a point-and-shoot. It's a full-featured (some might say over-featured) system camera.

You can say that "nothing can come close to the experience of seeing the optical image in a viewfinder". Well, that's subjective. The viewfinder on the K-5 II is not as nice as the one on my old Ricoh XR-7, but they just don't make 'em like that any more. And, as I have noted before, I feel more confident shooting with the EVF on the E-M5. (And it's not state-of-the-art anymore, since the E-M1 has an improved EVF, as do newer cameras from Sony and Fujifilm.)

Another thing I like about the E-M5 is that it's highly responsive. Everything it does is fast: focusing, burst mode, writing to the card. Comparing it with the K-5 II is sort of like comparing a sports car with a SUV.
12-08-2014, 08:12 AM   #465
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
We aren't (or at least, I wasn't) comparing DSLRs with "smaller cheaper cameras" or with "point and shoot cameras". My Olympus E-M5 is smaller but definitely not cheaper than my K-5 II. Actually, I seem to recall the E-M5 cost about twice as much. And of course, the E-M5 is most definitely not a point-and-shoot. It's a full-featured (some might say over-featured) system camera.

You can say that "nothing can come close to the experience of seeing the optical image in a viewfinder". Well, that's subjective. The viewfinder on the K-5 II is not as nice as the one on my old Ricoh XR-7, but they just don't make 'em like that any more. And, as I have noted before, I feel more confident shooting with the EVF on the E-M5. (And it's not state-of-the-art anymore, since the E-M1 has an improved EVF, as do newer cameras from Sony and Fujifilm.)

Another thing I like about the E-M5 is that it's highly responsive. Everything it does is fast: focusing, burst mode, writing to the card. Comparing it with the K-5 II is sort of like comparing a sports car with a SUV.
I tried the em5 nice camera almost kept it opted for Fuji instead. there was more value for me in sticking to a single brand than having 2 systems (my initial idea was 2 systems an OM and a Fuji but too much duplicated expense and i really like the 23/35/56 which have no quality equivalent that i tried)
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