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12-08-2014, 08:27 AM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The question is what is best for Pentax. Sony has made their bed and they are lying in it. If Pentax would go mirrorless with a larger sensor, I would hope they wouldn't dump the k mount.
Pentax did try doing it the other way round. K-01 provided ultimate backwards compatibility to DSLR lenses. And, when buying the special protruding lenses that were supposed to be marketed for it, would give all the benefits of mirrorless as well. (http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/news/announce/info-image/20120208_6.jpg) But something made Pentax change their minds again, much to the relief of the loyal user base. So maybe, when they really do have to move to mirrorless, they will dump the K-mount. Because I don't think they'll be going down the K-01 road ever again.

12-08-2014, 08:31 AM   #467
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
We aren't (or at least, I wasn't) comparing DSLRs with "smaller cheaper cameras" or with "point and shoot cameras". My Olympus E-M5 is smaller but definitely not cheaper than my K-5 II. Actually, I seem to recall the E-M5 cost about twice as much. And of course, the E-M5 is most definitely not a point-and-shoot. It's a full-featured (some might say over-featured) system camera.

You can say that "nothing can come close to the experience of seeing the optical image in a viewfinder". Well, that's subjective. The viewfinder on the K-5 II is not as nice as the one on my old Ricoh XR-7, but they just don't make 'em like that any more. And, as I have noted before, I feel more confident shooting with the EVF on the E-M5. (And it's not state-of-the-art anymore, since the E-M1 has an improved EVF, as do newer cameras from Sony and Fujifilm.)

Another thing I like about the E-M5 is that it's highly responsive. Everything it does is fast: focusing, burst mode, writing to the card. Comparing it with the K-5 II is sort of like comparing a sports car with a SUV.
That might not be the right comparison as the K-5 series is discontinued. Everyone who shoots with a K-3 instantly notices how much faster it is versus the K-5 cameras. So in your sports car/SUV analogy, maybe the K-3 is a Porsche Cayenne?
12-08-2014, 08:34 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Pentax did try doing it the other way round. K-01 provided ultimate backwards compatibility to DSLR lenses. And, when buying the special protruding lenses that were supposed to be marketed for it, would give all the benefits of mirrorless as well. (http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/news/announce/info-image/20120208_6.jpg) But something made Pentax change their minds again, much to the relief of the loyal user base. So maybe, when they really do have to move to mirrorless, they will dump the K-mount. Because I don't think they'll be going down the K-01 road ever again.
The problem with the K-01 was that it was an early gen camera with the issues that those have -- in particular, not great auto focus, poor buffer, no EVF -- combined with its weird styling that seemed to be instantly polarizing. The focus, buffer, and EVF all could be fixed pretty easily, as could the ergonomics. But Pentax was scarred enough by the K-01 to make me think that they would hesitate to do another mirrorless k mount camera.
12-08-2014, 08:36 AM   #469
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
So maybe, when they really do have to move to mirrorless, they will dump the K-mount. Because I don't think they'll be going down the K-01 road ever again.
I hope you are wrong about that. I think a mirrorless K-mount camera with an EVF (that the K-01 lacked) could be pretty good.

The way I figure, Pentax already have their bases well covered with Q-mount, K-mount and 645. If something really small is what you want, that's what Q is for -- and the Q system will only get better as sensors continue to improve. There is no need to introduce a new mount. Besides, a mirrorless camera with access to the whole K-mount lens catalog would be something unique in the industry. It would allow the mirrorless K cameras and the DSLR K cameras to continue living together in harmony long into the future, as long as both are wanted.

12-08-2014, 08:52 AM   #470
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I hope you are wrong about that. I think a mirrorless K-mount camera with an EVF (that the K-01 lacked) could be pretty good.

The way I figure, Pentax already have their bases well covered with Q-mount, K-mount and 645. If something really small is what you want, that's what Q is for -- and the Q system will only get better as sensors continue to improve. There is no need to introduce a new mount. Besides, a mirrorless camera with access to the whole K-mount lens catalog would be something unique in the industry. It would allow the mirrorless K cameras and the DSLR K cameras to continue living together in harmony long into the future, as long as both are wanted.
You don't have to convince me. The K-01 was a great concept. But Pentax somehow got convinced to stop it. You might have missed it, but the K-01 wasn't exactly met with warmth by the Pentaxians.
12-08-2014, 08:52 AM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
That might not be the right comparison as the K-5 series is discontinued. Everyone who shoots with a K-3 instantly notices how much faster it is versus the K-5 cameras. So in your sports car/SUV analogy, maybe the K-3 is a Porsche Cayenne?
ehh... I dunno. Keep in mind that the E-M5 is already becoming outdated too. The higher-spec "pro" E-M1 has been out for a while, and I hear the E-M5 is now being discontinued to make way for its own successor. You'd have to compare the K-3 to the E-M1, perhaps? But since I have neither of those cameras, I'm not in a good position to do so.

---------- Post added 12-08-14 at 09:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You don't have to convince me. The K-01 was a great concept. But Pentax somehow got convinced to stop it. You might have missed it, but the K-01 wasn't exactly met with warmth by the Pentaxians.
I'm thinking of something similar to the K-01 in the sense of a mirrorless K-mount camera, but need not have anything else in common. Certainly if I were in charge of the design, it wouldn't come out looking or operating much like the K-01 at all.
12-08-2014, 11:35 AM   #472
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
And if market evolution is any clue, Canon sales increased!
why keep saying things that you can't prove? repeating a lie doesn't make it true

the cipa numbers show that dslr sales have been in a negative growth pattern for what, over a year now? how do canon sales increase when they are shipping fewer cameras.

wrt the title of this thread, the shrinking dslr sales numbers prove that it's a dead form factor... it's not going to come back.

---------- Post added 12-08-2014 at 11:00 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Besides, a mirrorless camera with access to the whole K-mount lens catalog would be something unique in the industry.
sony, oly, samsung, etc., have already done that, with adapters to their lens mounts.

pentax glass on a 28mp bsi camera, that shoots real 4k video... will we ever see that from pentax? or a ff pentax body, for that matter? it's here right now with sony.

after reading this thread, i can imagine the weak(aka venomous) pentaxian community response to the k01

the 16mp k01 was released well after the sony 24mp nex7, which comes with a fairly good evf... too little too late.

a modern autofocus 24mp k01, with a real oled evf, would have gotten a better response... will pentax ever do that?
12-08-2014, 02:17 PM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What's with the making figures up on the spot? A mirror messes with the AF period. That's why the newest mirrorless cameras are suprassing DSLRs now in AF tracking. And it's still getting better. The Milcs are, as many here have stated, still in its infancy. Whilst DSLRs are out-developed. There is very little room for improvement there. So, the gap in AF-performance between MILCs and DSLRs is only going to become bigger and bigger.
Sony FF Mirroless seriously lack lenses for now. Because mirorless constrast AF require more movements from the lens to perform AF the lens design need to be changed with either a bigger more powerfull motor or with a smaller focussing group. Sigma explained that when explainint why they don't provide lenses for FE mount. If you don't do that AF is simply slow.

Nobody force FE body users to use lea4... Nobody prevented Sony to have more FE lenses natively or have a better converter or to have a camera that can focus a-mount lenses just fine.

In fact nobody care the drawbacks associated to all of this except the guys having to use it.

You are free to go and try if you like it.


Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-08-2014 at 02:37 PM.
12-08-2014, 02:30 PM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the cipa numbers show that dslr sales have been in a negative growth pattern for what, over a year now? how do canon sales increase when they are shipping fewer cameras.
Cipa number are for the whole industry, not just Canon... Canon reports show they did well lately. That logical they did introduced new models that appeal to their customers. Sony did not for the DSLR fans... Many of them brought nothing... A few gone A7... A few gone to other DSLR maker like Canon.
12-08-2014, 02:34 PM   #475
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Cipa number are for the whole industry, not just Canon... Canon reports show they did well lately.
why keep saying things that you can't prove? repeating a lie doesn't make it true

you keep claiming that canon has increased sales, and you keep failing to back it up.

---------- Post added 12-08-2014 at 01:53 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Sony FF Mirroless seriously lack lenses for now. Because mirorless constrast AF
i think that all of the mirrorless camera companies have some form on-chip pdaf, including the sony a7 ff camera, and that is where the industry is headed.

you've never used a real mirrorless camera, and you don't know anything about the technology.

Last edited by osv; 12-08-2014 at 02:54 PM.
12-08-2014, 03:32 PM - 1 Like   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
why keep saying things that you can't prove? repeating a lie doesn't make it true

you keep claiming that canon has increased sales, and you keep failing to back it up.

---------- Post added 12-08-2014 at 01:53 PM ----------



i think that all of the mirrorless camera companies have some form on-chip pdaf, including the sony a7 ff camera, and that is where the industry is headed.

you've never used a real mirrorless camera, and you don't know anything about the technology.
Back it down there, cowboy. Your post are increasingly inflammatory. Nuff said.
12-08-2014, 03:47 PM   #477
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Back it down there, cowboy. Your post are increasingly inflammatory. Nuff said.
and your name-calling comments are not infammatory?

QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Nicholas... he's only a troll. Stop feeding him.
back off yourself, cowboy.
12-08-2014, 03:47 PM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
why keep saying things that you can't prove? repeating a lie doesn't make it true

you keep claiming that canon has increased sales, and you keep failing to back it up.
I mean if without source one can't prove a claim, without a source on can't claim the other is lying. I can bring the source when you'll prove me wrong.

Repeating that I'am a liar isn't a proof of it
12-08-2014, 03:53 PM   #479
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Please settle down folks. There is no sense in attacking each other over SLRs. It certainly isn't worth it.
12-08-2014, 03:53 PM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I mean if without source one can't prove a claim
sounds like we agree that you can't back up your claims that canon has increased it's camera sales.

that's good enough for me.
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