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12-08-2014, 04:26 PM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas:
I mean if without source one can't prove a claim, without a source on can't claim the other is lying. I can bring the source when you'll prove me wrong.
sounds like we agree that you can't back up your claims that canon has increased it's camera sales.

that's good enough for me.
Ahaha. maybe in a day or 2... this give you time to try find the report in the Canon website... If really you fail to document yourself and show you really tried and was interrested to find it... Maybe.

So as said, I can provide it. Will I provide it to you here and now because you didn't care to google it? I mean help yourself.

Have a good night.

12-08-2014, 08:37 PM   #482
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
and your name-calling comments are not infammatory?



back off yourself, cowboy.
I didn't start the inflammatory posts, osv. Nor did I come here to troll. You did both and that's a bad combination.
12-09-2014, 02:27 AM - 1 Like   #483
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Are you guys intentionally doing this to get this thread closed by a moderator? I can imagine certain people don't like threads with this topic.
12-09-2014, 02:55 AM - 3 Likes   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Are you guys intentionally doing this to get this thread closed by a moderator?
I think it is about time a moderator did precisely that - this thread isn't contributing anything to the community, as soon as ad hominem attacks start to get flung around any chance for reasonable debate is long gone.

12-09-2014, 06:04 AM - 2 Likes   #485
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I'm not going to close it just yet, as that isn't fair to those carrying on a civil, mature conversation. I think you will find, however, that from this point on it will be a kinder, gentler thread and will have fewer participants.
If it degenerates again, I'll close it.
12-09-2014, 06:12 AM   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I'm not going to close it just yet, as that isn't fair to those carrying on a civil, mature conversation. I think you will find, however, that from this point on it will be a kinder, gentler thread and will have fewer participants.
If it degenerates again, I'll close it.
Looks like a reasonable decision.
12-09-2014, 06:35 AM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I'm not going to close it just yet, as that isn't fair to those carrying on a civil, mature conversation. I think you will find, however, that from this point on it will be a kinder, gentler thread and will have fewer participants.
If it degenerates again, I'll close it.
I got no idea why the lack of a mirror in a camera evokes so much emotions in DSLR owners. It's like a religious sect calling out sacrilegious sinful things.
12-09-2014, 08:10 AM - 1 Like   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I think you will find, however, that from this point on it will be a kinder, gentler thread and will have fewer participants.
I'll take the vegas odds on that happening..

12-09-2014, 08:18 AM   #489
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I don't think the issue is presence or absence of a mirror in your camera. The question for many folks is whether or not Sony is awesome and therefore, whether any other brand would do well to emulate them. Strangely, Olympus and Panasonic users seem to be much more willing to accept that there are many different camera styles and that there is no one road to photographic paradise.
12-09-2014, 09:06 AM   #490
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think the issue is presence or absence of a mirror in your camera. The question for many folks is whether or not Sony is awesome and therefore, whether any other brand would do well to emulate them. Strangely, Olympus and Panasonic users seem to be much more willing to accept that there are many different camera styles and that there is no one road to photographic paradise.
Sony isn't awesome, so that can't be the issue either. The problem many people have with disappearing mirrors is that without the mirror, a different mount will be imminent too. Of course, when you've been collecting K-mount lenses since the dawn of K-mount, that is not a desired scenario. The enlightened Olympus and Panasonic users that you are referring to are not restricted by their gear in that way.
12-09-2014, 09:09 AM   #491
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony isn't awesome, so that can't be the issue either. The problem many people have with disappearing mirrors is that without the mirror, a different mount will be imminent too. Of course, when you've been collecting K-mount lenses since the dawn of K-mount, that is not a desired scenario. The enlightened Olympus and Panasonic users that you are referring to are not restricted by their gear in that way.
That brings up an interesting question. How many m4/3 users are formerly Olympus DSLR users and did they keep any of their old lenses?
12-09-2014, 09:45 AM   #492
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
How many m4/3 users are formerly Olympus DSLR users and did they keep any of their old lenses?
I have no idea in terms of numbers or percentages, but there are some former Olympus DSLR users shooters still shooting there old four-thirds glass on m4/3 cameras. The OMD-EM-1 was intentionally made bigger, with improved AF technology, to accomodate the larger, slow focusing Oly four-thirds lenses. However, most of the HG and SHG lenses are way too big for most m43 cameras and take several seconds to focus (if they focus at all). I know a photographer who's shooting the Oly 12-60 on an EM-5. He uses manual focus most of the time and, largely because of the weight of the lens, wound up damaging the bottom of his camera.

Some four-thirds users begin by using their old DSLR glass on m4/3 cameras, but later end up updating to m43 glass, for the reduced weight and improved auto-focus. Others have simply jumped to other systems. The consequence is that the used prices for four-thirds glass are a half to a third of new prices. Anyone who invested in Oly four-thirds glass simply bet on the wrong horse, and are going to have to pay for their decision one way or the other.
12-09-2014, 10:44 AM   #493
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I could have used all my Pentax glass when I switched to m4/3, using a simple adapter. I didn't for the reasons listed above. I made the switch to take advantage of the decrease in size and weight. Adapting those large lenses would negate those factors. I now have a full suite of m4/3 lenses that cover the entire range that I had in the APS.C days with little or no loss of speed or IQ. For my type of photography, which does not include things like speeding race cars, dimly lit sports or murky night clubs, the lenses I have now outperform the lenses I had before. Plus, my back is much happier.
12-09-2014, 11:04 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
I could have used all my Pentax glass when I switched to m4/3, using a simple adapter. I didn't for the reasons listed above. I made the switch to take advantage of the decrease in size and weight. Adapting those large lenses would negate those factors. I now have a full suite of m4/3 lenses that cover the entire range that I had in the APS.C days with little or no loss of speed or IQ. For my type of photography, which does not include things like speeding race cars, dimly lit sports or murky night clubs, the lenses I have now outperform the lenses I had before. Plus, my back is much happier.
you don't need to go as small as m4/3 for that to be the route. Although i have the adapter for m42 and k mount lenses i need to shoot fuji to get size benefit (and then i need to shoot the lesser speed pancakes to really benefit, the big fast lenses take me close to dslr territory - though somewhat smaller and lighter and definitely smaller and lighter than FF beasts with comparable fov and speed . In fact if you try and compare my XE2 with 35 1.4 to a comparable nikon 61 0 w 50 1.8. k3 w 35 2.8(no fast comparison online) and omd with pana 25 1.4 the Fuji is in fact the smallest of the lot (arguably the lens is the best of the lot as well)

Compact Camera Meter
12-09-2014, 12:01 PM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony isn't awesome, so that can't be the issue either. The problem many people have with disappearing mirrors is that without the mirror, a different mount will be imminent too. Of course, when you've been collecting K-mount lenses since the dawn of K-mount, that is not a desired scenario. The enlightened Olympus and Panasonic users that you are referring to are not restricted by their gear in that way.
I think that very much depends on the design of the camera and the adapter. Say you have a camera that is designed to take larger lenses, but has a sort flange distance. Basically, take a K-3, with the full K-3 grip, but move the lens mount much closer to the sensor. Apart from that it's ergonomically a K-3. Just slimmer at one point. Such a camera will take lenses designed for mirrorless, and have a nice grip and balance (unlike those early NEX cameras for example which don't really have a grip and feel awkward with anything but a pancake). But when you mount an adapter on it, and a regular K mount lens, even a larger one, the balance is still there. It all feels the way it should be.


There's nothing saying the adapter has to be a round tube. It could also be a squarish thing that has 2 rails that can slide over the original lens mount. That might add stability too. Of course it'd limit the camera design (or every new model needs new adapters...). And either there's a screw drive motor in the adapter, or there is one in the body that is mechanically transmitted to the lens through the adapter.


Wouldn't such a combo be able to give all sorts of benefits? You can use old lenses in the transitioning period, or maybe even forever. You get the benefits of being able to use smaller lenses that are designed for the system, or you can use old lenses, and all works the way they should. Weight would still be saved, and it'd still be smaller (with a mirrorless lens). All that really should matter is the final size of the system... body + lens, and that would still be smaller than using similar focal lengths on a DSLR, and perhaps not even bigger than using such a focal length on a very slim, NEX style body (unless we're talking about a pancake).
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