Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-22-2014, 01:28 AM - 1 Like   #541
Veteran Member
whk1992's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 680
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I am in contact with several photoclubs for young enthusiasts, including a local school. If young people ever do get the money scratched together to buy into a "real" camera... (and that's a big IF, because they prefer their small and cheap smartphones) ...then they still prefer using the LV screen over the OVF. They are so used to having that brightness, and having all that extra information present, that they just don't see the added value of using the dark OVF.

In my opinion, having a good EVF and no back LCD screen, but direct display with any smart device through wireless connection instead, would get young people's attention back again. It would also shave off some more weight and bulk. That back LCD is thicker then we assume.




Oh, but a silent shutter will be a big hit, and a long awaited feature as soon as Canon or Nikon finally start using it.

I always find it funny how people find the "silent shutter" of the Pentax cameras so very important... Whilst at the same time they have world's loudest screwdrive.
The mechanical movements and noise made by my K-50 is one of the reasons why I chose DSLR over a mirrorless system. I know it sounds funny and weird. I just can't help with that as an engineering student.

12-22-2014, 01:44 AM   #542
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by whk1992 Quote
The mechanical movements and noise made by my K-50 is one of the reasons why I chose DSLR over a mirrorless system. I know it sounds funny and weird. I just can't help with that as an engineering student.
Then you might also understand how I can switch the aperture leaver of any fine engineered lens, and stare at it in awe for minutes on end?
12-22-2014, 02:46 AM   #543
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,646
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I am in contact with several photoclubs for young enthusiasts, including a local school. If young people ever do get the money scratched together to buy into a "real" camera... (and that's a big IF, because they prefer their small and cheap smartphones) ...then they still prefer using the LV screen over the OVF. They are so used to having that brightness, and having all that extra information present, that they just don't see the added value of using the dark OVF.

In my opinion, having a good EVF and no back LCD screen, but direct display with any smart device through wireless connection instead, would get young people's attention back again. It would also shave off some more weight and bulk. That back LCD is thicker then we assume.




Oh, but a silent shutter will be a big hit, and a long awaited feature as soon as Canon or Nikon finally start using it.

I always find it funny how people find the "silent shutter" of the Pentax cameras so very important... Whilst at the same time they have world's loudest screwdrive.
I agree. However, I don't think the LCD has to be thick... I mean I have access to a Huawei P7, which is something like 6-7mm thick. And they managed to cram in all the electronics and a decent battery too! The screen itself is also good. And there are these days even slimmer smartphones, at something like 4-5mm. How thick does a display have to be, really?


Well, just focus manually


@whk1992: There are plenty of situations where shutter noise may not be... appreciated by everyone. I recently watched a performance of Swan Lake. I took plenty of video, but photos were impossible due to the loud shutter noise. I do like the noise and the way it feels when I take a photo, but to the photo itself it's disadvantageous, it introduces camera shake, and it may draw attention that you don't want.
12-22-2014, 03:12 AM   #544
Veteran Member
whk1992's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 680
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I agree. However, I don't think the LCD has to be thick... I mean I have access to a Huawei P7, which is something like 6-7mm thick. And they managed to cram in all the electronics and a decent battery too! The screen itself is also good. And there are these days even slimmer smartphones, at something like 4-5mm. How thick does a display have to be, really?


Well, just focus manually


@whk1992: There are plenty of situations where shutter noise may not be... appreciated by everyone. I recently watched a performance of Swan Lake. I took plenty of video, but photos were impossible due to the loud shutter noise. I do like the noise and the way it feels when I take a photo, but to the photo itself it's disadvantageous, it introduces camera shake, and it may draw attention that you don't want.
is it the shutter that's too loud or the flappy mirror?

---------- Post added 12-22-14 at 02:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Then you might also understand how I can switch the aperture leaver of any fine engineered lens, and stare at it in awe for minutes on end?
Absolutely understandable. I enjoy disassembling things too. It's just frustrating when I can't put them back in one piece.

12-22-2014, 03:26 AM   #545
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,646
QuoteOriginally posted by whk1992 Quote
is it the shutter that's too loud or the flappy mirror?

---------- Post added 12-22-14 at 02:19 AM ----------


Absolutely understandable. I enjoy disassembling things too. It's just frustrating when I can't put them back in one piece.
Not sure what it is on my Pentax... both I suppose? I remember the A7 being louder than my K-5... a lot louder, even though that only has a shutter. In any case, a silent camera can, at times, be a wonderful thing.
12-22-2014, 03:30 AM   #546
Veteran Member
whk1992's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 680
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Not sure what it is on my Pentax... both I suppose? I remember the A7 being louder than my K-5... a lot louder, even though that only has a shutter. In any case, a silent camera can, at times, be a wonderful thing.
Turn on a 2-sec timer and take a long-exposed shot (shutter speed of a few seconds.) Right after you squeeze the shutter button, the first loud noise is from the flappy mirror. The actual shutter noise is just a click.
12-22-2014, 07:51 AM   #547
Site Supporter
jcdoss's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,883
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
In my opinion, having a good EVF and no back LCD screen, but direct display with any smart device through wireless connection instead, would get young people's attention back again. It would also shave off some more weight and bulk. That back LCD is thicker then we assume.
I agree with your sentiments about EVF v OVF, however there's no way an LCD is going to stop anyone from buying a "real" camera. If the bulk of a camera is going to drive anyone away, it's going to be because of the lenses, not the LCD.
12-22-2014, 09:09 AM   #548
Site Supporter




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,965
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I look at the market place right now and it seems like Canon and Nikon are on very different tracks than Sony is. Every new "big" camera from Canon and Nikon -- the 7D Mk II, the D750 -- are SLR type and while they have gotten a little smaller over time, they are what they are.

On the other hand, it seems that Sony generates a huge amount of buzz with every new iteration of the NEX series of cameras. Whether crop sensor or, full frame, it doesn't seem to matter. Is it the smaller size, or the EVF? I'm not sure. I am just questioning at this point whether the days of the traditional SLR are numbered. Are we going to see SLRs limited to a small number of professional shooters who happen to use fast telephoto lenses?

It feels like this makes a big difference to a company like Pentax. Pentax has made the decision not to pursue the mirrorless market with a larger sensored market, I guess think that people will either get an SLR or a Q.

I wonder if the SLR market is dying and if Pentax should be exploring mirrorless options, rather than hanging on to the mirror.

Don't get me wrong. I like a good OVF. I haven't used an EVF that I like better than an OVF, but it just feels like the market is shifting and maybe Pentax is going to be way behind again, just as they were when the "digital revolution" started and then the "full frame revolution" started.

Just some thoughts, but wondered what others think?
As long as they continue to use the Q line to think about mirror-less cameras, I'm confident that Pentax could get a mirror-less camera with a larger sensor to market in fairly short order if that become necessary.

12-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #549
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
Hey guys (and gals), please don't go out and try out an A7 series Sony camera. And don't bring along your Pentax K7/5/3 to compare it to. It'll make you cry or drool - one or the other.

I and a friend bought lunch for another club member to show us his Sony collection, he has the A7R, the A7S and all the native lenses, almost. They, with the FF sensor, are a little smaller and lighter than the K3. And the zoom lenses aren't a bad size, even the 70-200, because they are all F4. Unlike Pentax, none of the Sony lenses are weather resistant, altho the A7 bodies are supposed to be. I have more faith in my Pentax bodies because they've been at the game longer.

But Pentax used to be the maker of small SLR bodies - now its Sony - thats the first thought that occurred to me. Pentax still makes better lenses IMO, but i sure like the size and weight of the A7 bodies. The bizarre A7S appeals to me :-) There's just no accounting for taste.

The time for Pentax to get into the mirrorless game - more than the Q, is NOW, in my probably erroneous opinion.

Have some great holidays everyone!!!
12-22-2014, 04:53 PM   #550
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nelson B.C.
Posts: 3,258
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I am in contact with several photoclubs for young enthusiasts, including a local school. If young people ever do get the money scratched together to buy into a "real" camera... (and that's a big IF, because they prefer their small and cheap smartphones) ...then they still prefer using the LV screen over the OVF. They are so used to having that brightness, and having all that extra information present, that they just don't see the added value of using the dark OVF.
It must be nice to take shots where there is enough light that you don't have to hold the body still for the duration. They will learn why the third stabilizing point is necessary when they try to get sharp shots. Or try to follow any action.
12-22-2014, 10:57 PM   #551
Veteran Member
abmj's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central California
Posts: 600
How in the world does anybody get sharp images while holding a DSLR out in front at almost arms length. You'd have to push the ISO up until the shutter is at 1/1000 or better - or shoot everything on a tripod. I hope your club teaches basics, like steady handholding technique. Whenever I see a DSLR out at arms length, I automatically think "rookie." And I am not a very judgmental person. Some things, though ...
12-23-2014, 01:18 AM   #552
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
It must be nice to take shots where there is enough light that you don't have to hold the body still for the duration. They will learn why the third stabilizing point is necessary when they try to get sharp shots. Or try to follow any action.
Oh they do learn about that, and recognize the need for it as well. Then they investigate prices and either swing back to smartphone again. Or scratch everything together they have and get a small APS-C mirrorless ILC or with fixed lens. DSLRs don't make any sense to them. Even when, or especially when, I let them try any of my Pentax bodies. And when the rare student finally does get a DSLR, it's a cheap Canon with an even worse VF. They then prefer to take their chances with the liveview. And I can't really blame them. And in the rarest occasion when one of those new enthusiast does opt for using the OVF, he or she switches to video and all chances the eye level VF ever had are obliterated. This aversion of young people towards optical viewfinders isn't helping DSLRs, or eye level VFs at all. The eye level VF should be a joy to use or it's going to continue to be phased out.

Last edited by Clavius; 12-23-2014 at 02:45 AM.
12-23-2014, 01:29 AM   #553
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,646
QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
How in the world does anybody get sharp images while holding a DSLR out in front at almost arms length. You'd have to push the ISO up until the shutter is at 1/1000 or better - or shoot everything on a tripod. I hope your club teaches basics, like steady handholding technique. Whenever I see a DSLR out at arms length, I automatically think "rookie." And I am not a very judgmental person. Some things, though ...
Weirdly enough when taking video that's the position I take with my K-5. The further away from my body, the more stable the video when I walk around. Of course the SR system helps _a ton_. With any other camera the result would be a mess.


I tried the A7. Didn't like the ergonomics and menus too much, and don't get me started about that shutter noise.


@whk1992: A right! Should have thought of that. Pentax makes really quiet shutters, but you can still hear them. A mirrorless Pentax... mhhhh...
12-23-2014, 02:19 AM   #554
Pentaxian
LensBeginner's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,572
QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
How in the world does anybody get sharp images while holding a DSLR out in front at almost arms length. You'd have to push the ISO up until the shutter is at 1/1000 or better - or shoot everything on a tripod. I hope your club teaches basics, like steady handholding technique. Whenever I see a DSLR out at arms length, I automatically think "rookie." And I am not a very judgmental person. Some things, though ...
A dslr, don't know, a K-01 (lighter, no mirror movements), no problems.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/280339-cityscape-nigh...rno-river.html
^50mm, 1/15s, handheld at arm's length.
12-23-2014, 02:43 AM   #555
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely NOT advocating taking pictures at arms length. I'm saying the eye level VF's need to have quality, brightness, sharpness and information enough so you don't NEED to use the back LCD screen.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
35mm, camera, cameras, canon, compromise, dslr, evf, frame, kit, lcd, lenses, market, mirrorless, ovf, pentax, photography, pm, post, rangefinder, sensor, size, slr, slrs, sony, steve, system, weight
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nature Dying Flowers Dr Orloff Photo Critique 3 02-02-2014 07:36 PM
Landscape The living and dying. BigJPR Photo Critique 25 05-09-2013 05:51 AM
Dying voice of reason.... jeffkrol General Talk 3 12-14-2012 11:25 AM
GOP problem: 'Their voters are white, aging and dying off' jeffkrol General Talk 42 05-22-2012 08:40 AM
Are all FILM SLRs safe with older flashes? ismaelg Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 5 03-29-2012 08:53 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:30 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top