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12-28-2014, 08:05 PM   #616
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QuoteQuote:
Just set the screen to off (no review, no settings displayed). That's what I have done.
Thanks, that is definitely an option, however i do like the option of turning the flip out LCD inwards, it is on when i want to view it, just flip it out, and has other uses i like.

12-28-2014, 08:23 PM   #617
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In order to get my M43 cameras to work the way I wanted them to I had to go out and get an extra EVF and AF lenses. The back screen on my E-P3 just isn't all that great out in daylight and depending upon what lens I am using an EVF isn't an optional accessory for me. By the time you add on all the "extras" like the lenses, the EVF and all the adapters my M43 cameras don't take up so much less space in the bag than my DSLR's. A little, and they are lighter, but there's nearly the same bulk with the EVF on them unless I am using a really tiny lens like my Oly 17mm pancake and nothing but all day and I definitely do carry more by way of batteries and such than I do with my DSLR's.

Comparatively the M43 cameras just eat them. With my DSLR's I need maybe 3 or 4 all day. With my M43 cameras I need at least a third more. I have to tote 8 batteries for those, only 3-5 for each of my DSLR's. So really what I'm making up for in weight in camera and lens size I'm putting back into my kit in terms of accessories if I am indeed making a full kit day out of it and planning to shoot a lot. Even when I am only carrying one in my purse I take 2 charged batteries along. Compare that to shooting all day long with 3 on the K-30's, taking two extras along just in case, and usually coming home with them unused.

I use my M43 cameras a lot and I really do love my E-P3's. They are fun cameras to use and the two I have are fast to focus even in dim light and not nearly as intimidating as my DSLR's which can be a big plus when I just want to walk around and take pics unimpeded by security people and that. But they're not the M43 equivalent of my DSLR's and I could never see myself doing serious work with them like I do with my K-30's. They're good little cameras but they're just not capable enough for me to use them for my job. If you're just running around doing photography as a hobby thing, not trying to be serious about it, and you don't need a lot of capacity a mirrorless camera can do you, but if you want to do more than that IMHO you still need a DSLR.

Now I can't speak as to the 4/3 cameras. I've never owned one and I'm assuming that with the higher price tag they're probably even more like a mirrorless DSLR, but I have owned several M43 cameras now and I can say that they just do not quite match up, not yet anyway. There's a reason I have both, shrug. M43 cameras are easier to tote around, they make it easier to shoot in places where DSLR's are now frowned upon, and in my case properly decorated they are a great ice breaker. They threaten people a lot less than a proper DSLR does, particularly when you bling them all up and make them look sparkly and silly as I am wont to do.

I can get some really decent portraits with a M43 camera but I will never be able to use my E-P3's for things like studio work or birding. I really find I need a DSLR for that. But then again I can barely take a DSLR on holiday now or into some kind of public building and take pics and not have someone hassle me for doing it so there you go. I think actually one of each is the perfect combo. I don't know that I'd want to be sans either now...

Last edited by magkelly; 12-28-2014 at 08:30 PM.
12-29-2014, 01:37 AM   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
Thanks, that is definitely an option, however i do like the option of turning the flip out LCD inwards, it is on when i want to view it, just flip it out, and has other uses i like.
When I want to see the photo I have taken I press the play button. Etc. I do agree with other uses.

@magkelly: 4/3 cameras aren't made anymore, they are actual DSLRs. With mirror and all.

Don't forget that there are more serious mirrorless cameras. OM-D, GH4, NX1, A7, ...
12-30-2014, 09:51 PM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Finally, why does everyone here seem to think that screen tech isn't improving? It is improving a lot.
Oh, I agree. Except that we haven't had to put up with inadequate EVF's, we have adequate OVF's. I'm certain the EVF engineers are cursing the existence of very nice OVF's because it sets a floor that is quite high before anyone will even look at their marvels.

I will consider one in 3 product generations. By then they won't be driving design, but will just work well.

01-05-2015, 06:28 AM - 1 Like   #620
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I now shoot both Pentax DSLRs and a Sony A6000. The new fast hybrid AF on the A6000 along with a good EVF and articulated screen make it every bit the pleasure to use of a DSLR, and the EVF does things the mirror and screen cannot, like zooming in for fine focus. With an adapter, it even uses K and M lenses with auto flash and Av auto exposure. If Pentax made a K-02 with the size and lens mount of the K-01, and the features of the A6000 or even better, the A7II, I might not ever buy another DSLR.

Last edited by GeneV; 01-05-2015 at 06:55 AM.
01-05-2015, 07:47 AM   #621
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I would love to see that!

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I now shoot both Pentax DSLRs and a Sony A6000. The new fast hybrid AF on the A6000 along with a good EVF and articulated screen make it every bit the pleasure to use of a DSLR, and the EVF does things the mirror and screen cannot, like zooming in for fine focus. With an adapter, it even uses K and M lenses with auto flash and Av auto exposure. If Pentax made a K-02 with the size and lens mount of the K-01, and the features of the A6000 or even better, the A7II, I might not ever buy another DSLR.
01-05-2015, 08:02 AM   #622
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It is an interesting question what the finder is supposed to do. I have an EVF on a Panny Lx7 and the one on the A6000, and I have used various cameras with some form of optical finder. If I want to experience the world through a finder, I would much rather use an optical finder. To put together the digital photo, after I have had the experience and conceived the shot, I am more and more convinced the EVF is the way to go. To view the result, the back screen or an external monitor is better.

As an aside, one of my gripes about the K01 is that you can't use an external HDMI field monitor to take the shot the way you can on its DSLR contemporaries. This makes no sense at all to me.
01-05-2015, 12:47 PM   #623
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I ditched my pentax DSLRs last year (K7 and K5ii), and some of my lenses, to move over to Fuji, and I can say unequivocally that the only thing that I feel that I left behind was the weather sealing (the X-t1 is also weather sealed, but I don't trust it to the same extent as my previous pentaxes — which I'd put through hell, rinsed off under a faucet, and kept on shooting).

Optically, I'm happier with the Fuji stuff — lighter weight, faster, and sharper lenses than most of the pentax af glass that I ever got my hands on, particularly at the wide end of the spectrum, lighter bodies, more lens interoperability with other legacy systems (I've shot pentax, takumar, minolta, and nikon lenses on the x-cameras — as well as the superb fuji lenses).

Additionally, while I do understand the appeal of a pentaprism viewfinder, It's my staunch opinion that both the hybrid optical+evf viewfinder in the x-pro1 and the insanely large/bright/fast EVF in the x-t1 blow the k7/k5/k3 finders out of the water in terms of having a big bright representation of scene in front of your eye (the k series finders always felt a bit tunnel-ish to me). The X-T1 EVF is very nearly as big as the viewfinder in my Pentax Super Program, which is enormous, and it's a huge joy to return to a comparable shooting experience in digital on a lightweight non-FF body.

Overall, I really liked what the Pentax bodies could do, but ultimately I never felt any strong emotional connection to them, despite shooting with them a great deal. On the other hand, coming from shooting film rangefinders and older film SLRs, the Fuji stuff feels like coming home.

Definite bias here is that I don't shoot zooms (though the Fooj zooms are reportedly very nice), or do much work in longer focal lengths, so the bias towards wide very fast glass options in the fuji lineup suits me. If you're shooting sports, you won't like the focus tracking on the Fuji bodies much compared to dSLRs, but in my experience, the hybrid pdaf/cdaf system on the Fujis is more accurate than the Pentax pdaf when it does lock.

So, in the end, horses for courses, as usual: they both do a lot of the same stuff very well, but each has specific advantages.

So do I think that mirrorless will kill off DSLRs? Yeah, probably, at least in APS-C. The shorter registration distance to the focal plane and the omission of the prism add a *lot* more design flexibility to the systems. But not quite yet—we'd need to see far better AF performance, and more evolution in overall system versatility with any of the mirrorless platforms before they'll eclipse more conventional cameras.

On the Pentax front, IMHO an interesting move would be to take cues from the GXR series, and build out a professional-grade weathersealed body frame/platform that a user could build up small as a compact crop-sensor mILC, or build up large as a FF pro system. Extreme system modularity and interoperability would be one area where Pentax could differentiate itself from the other players, and Ricoh has demonstrated experience in that realm.

01-05-2015, 04:19 PM   #624
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I think in the last week I've sold two people on the idea of buying a Sony A6000. That camera just does so many things right. But that being said, I've never found my NEX-6 or RX-100 to be "fun" cameras. They are so capable, but I sometimes wonder if the Fuji X series would be more enjoyable. Fuji certainly does have some interesting lenses. Like that 56mm F/1.2. Perhaps this is the difference between a camera made by an electronics company and one made by a photographic company.
01-06-2015, 12:01 PM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by devorama Quote
I think in the last week I've sold two people on the idea of buying a Sony A6000. That camera just does so many things right. But that being said, I've never found my NEX-6 or RX-100 to be "fun" cameras. They are so capable, but I sometimes wonder if the Fuji X series would be more enjoyable. Fuji certainly does have some interesting lenses. Like that 56mm F/1.2. Perhaps this is the difference between a camera made by an electronics company and one made by a photographic company.
The Fuji stuff is incredibly enjoyable. It's a lot more fun than my k7/k5iis were, and I hold those cameras in very high regard with regards to ergonomics, build, and overall quality. The fuji bodies just have something else going on — the size makes them a bit more nimble than the k-series stuff (though with the bigger x lenses the overall package isn't that much smaller), but the biggest difference for me is in the overall shooting experience. If you've ever shot with a rangefinder (or just plain like a big bright OVF), the hybrid viewfinder on the x-pro1 is incredible—the experience of a full data HUD overlay on top of a big OVF is really superb. I've gushed about the EVF on the xt1 up above, so I'll spare you the repetition here. Manual focus with peaking via the viewfinder is excellent, and makes the process of shooting with legacy MF glass really simple and fun (though stop-down metering is de-rigeur— aperture automation with smc-a lenses on the k bodies is one area that's superior on pentax). The flip-out screen on the x-t1 is great - makes waist-level street shooting very discreet (framing using 1:1 crop with the screen out is like a weird modern throwback to shooting with a TLR). Overall, the k7/k5iis felt like high-quality tools to me — which they are. But very staunchly utilitarian. The Fuji's got something else — something about the interface and feel in the hand — that brings back the romance of cameras I've really got along with in the past, and enjoyed shooting with.

In terms of the lenses: I don't have the 56mm personally, but I've got the 14mm, the 23mm, the 35mm, and the 60mm, and they're all optically better than anything in equivalent FOVs that I've used in the Nikon or Pentax camps (except maybe a super Tak 50 1.4, which has it's own thing going on), including a few of the pentax limiteds. And the fuji lenses all quite fast. The handling and AF on the 60mm leaves something to be desired, but the 23mm is the nicest and fastest 35mm FOV-equivalent lens I've ever had the pleasure of using, and you can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

My $0.02? If you're even mildly curious about the Fuji stuff, try to find a cheap used X-E2 or X-Pro1 body locally on craigslist (or borrow or rent one), and grab a cheap pk / x mount adapter on ebay — and take your pentax glass for a spin on it. Reckon there are worse ways to spend a weekend
01-07-2015, 03:11 AM   #626
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Still just an unconfirmed rumor... But if true, in respect to the topic of dying SLRs, then this would be the last nail in the coffin I think:

(SR2) First rumor about a super cheap FF E-mount camera. Costs 799 Euro with lens? | sonyalpharumors

I don't know if it can be true though. If any manufacturer can do it, then it's Sony.
01-07-2015, 03:20 AM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Still just an unconfirmed rumor... But if true, in respect to the topic of dying SLRs, then this would be the last nail in the coffin I think:

You need to be more specific about you 'death' prognosis; death of SLR as a concept? Because there might be el cheapo mirrorless 35mm? I don't think so.
Because mirrorless will overtake DSLR as concept of choice for 'good' consumer camera? Well, probably. But that doesn't sound so dramatic.
01-07-2015, 03:29 AM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
You need to be more specific about you 'death' prognosis; death of SLR as a concept? Because there might be el cheapo mirrorless 35mm? I don't think so.
Because mirrorless will overtake DSLR as concept of choice for 'good' consumer camera? Well, probably. But that doesn't sound so dramatic.
We've been discussing the concept for 42 pages and only now you bring this up? LOL! I agree though, the SLR will remain for good time. Just like the vinyl record player is still amongst us.
01-07-2015, 03:36 AM   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Just like the vinyl record player is still amongst us.

Vinyl has a single advantage for a very limited number of users; scratching. Is it the case with DSLRs wrt mirrorless too? This is not rhetorical, I am asking. From top of the head I see three; seeing the actual scene (if not the way it will be recorded), lower latency, better battery life.
01-07-2015, 04:18 AM - 1 Like   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
Vinyl has a single advantage for a very limited number of users; scratching. Is it the case with DSLRs wrt mirrorless too? This is not rhetorical, I am asking. From top of the head I see three; seeing the actual scene (if not the way it will be recorded), lower latency, better battery life.
Nope, vinyl has more advantages. And the advantages are REAL too. Ask the vinylaholics. They can tell you all about how horrible the digital music sounds to them and how good the tonal ranges, wave accuracies and what not. Not to mention the loss of quality due to data compression when not using vinyl. Even if we do hear the difference, do us normal consumers care about that? Nope, apparently not.

In my case the same goes for that battery life. The 'Only' ~120 shots on a battery of my A7r is less then the ~800 of my K-5. It's a real difference, but I don't give a hoot because it's still more then I'll ever need to shoot on a single battery.

Same goes for VF latency. Sure, in some conditions I see some latency. Especially when I'm panning hard for example. I just don't care. It's still showing me live DOF preview whilst continuously autofocussing during that panning. (Is that why I need less shots maybe?)

And if I want to see the "actual scene" then I just take the camera away from my face. That shows me more of the actual scene then the OVF of my camera. But for photographing, I'm many MANY times more interested in what my sensor is seeing.
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