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01-07-2015, 03:08 PM   #646
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The A7 II I suppose? The others don't have IBIS.

The DC input is not nearly as convenient as a USB input. And while the camera may sometimes need more power, the USB input would be used to charge the battery consistently. The camera itself runs off the internal battery.

I also have a two port USB charger, and there are some with 4 and more. When traveling you just need to bring one of those, no small charger you can loose, and you can charge the camera and your phone, tablet, ...

Or you just charge your camera at the end of the day by plugging it into the computer... And at the same time the files are transferred.

As an additional bit of convenience it would be great.
There's another reason to going to USB charging. In countries that don't have an infrastructure of high AC voltage lines and step down power stations, small villages and apartment buildings are installing solar panels and a DC network using USB type connectors. I read an article about a year ago that reported existing USB connectors are designed for 5 watts, IIRC, but a new design for a 100 watt USB connector is being developed. So worldwide, it appears that USB connectors will allow more future interconnectivity than any other design. My half-assed opinion only :-)

01-07-2015, 04:27 PM   #647
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
but a new design for a 100 watt USB connector is being developed
I would hate to have to deal with a USB cable that can carry 20 amps...
It must be something completely different from the current standard.
01-07-2015, 04:40 PM   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
I would hate to have to deal with a USB cable that can carry 20 amps...
It must be something completely different from the current standard.
Yes, they would require USB Power Delivery compliant cables. The 100W max would be 20V @ 5A. The power sources would default to 5V and then increase based upon negotiation with the device. My Samsung Note4 has a fast charging mode that increases the voltage to 9V for a faster recharge.
01-07-2015, 06:24 PM   #649
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It's not like our regular chargers need so much power anyway. But I'll start a new thread for this...

01-08-2015, 02:04 AM   #650
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QuoteOriginally posted by Timichango Quote
Stated as if Sony is the only player in the mirrorless game? Olympus and Fuji are photography companies, and it shows in their cameras and their glass (and in their rate of expansion and adoption).

Sony's only claim to fame in the mirrorless space is that they're the only one currently doing FF mirrorless — but adopters of the other major mILC systems don't seem to care too much.
Well, the question - "Are SLRs dying?" is only a pertinent question because of the chatter that Sony brings to the table. Everyone else doing mILC is niche because of their size and market share.

Ergo, because Sony is in the game, it's a relevant question, and one based squarley on perception because of who/what Sony is.
01-08-2015, 03:37 AM   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Well, the question - "Are SLRs dying?" is only a pertinent question because of the chatter that Sony brings to the table. Everyone else doing mILC is niche because of their size and market share.

Ergo, because Sony is in the game, it's a relevant question, and one based squarley on perception because of who/what Sony is.
I agree. Certainly Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic aren't killing SLRs or the traditional SLR companies, even though they have been making mirrorless options for years.
01-08-2015, 04:09 AM   #652
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I agree. Certainly Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic aren't killing SLRs or the traditional SLR companies, even though they have been making mirrorless options for years.
There's a price difference between Olympus, Panasonic and Sony offerings. The removal of mirror, mirror mechanics, prism, focus screen, VF optics and all the manual calibration involved lowers the cost price. Sony chose to communicate that advantage to the customers instead of their own pockets.
01-08-2015, 04:23 AM   #653
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
There's a price difference between Olympus, Panasonic and Sony offerings. The removal of mirror, mirror mechanics, prism, focus screen, VF optics and all the manual calibration involved lowers the cost price. Sony chose to communicate that advantage to the customers instead of their own pockets.
Olympus had fire sales all of the time in the past -- on camera bodies, if not on lenses. That is what ran the company into the red so much. I think they've cut back on production a lot in order to try to boost prices on their gear, but my feeling is that Olympus tended to sell most of their gear when it was significantly discounted at the end of its life cycle.

01-08-2015, 09:48 AM   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I agree. Certainly Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic aren't killing SLRs or the traditional SLR companies, even though they have been making mirrorless options for years.
Yes. But they haven't been very good. Electric cars have been around for ages... longer than petrol and diesel cars. But only recently have some of them become so good that they are a viable alternative. And they just keep getting better.


Would I take a mirrorless from 2 years ago? No. Not good enough. AF sucks, the EVF, if it even has one, has weird rainbow artefacts, is sluggish/lags behind and is low res, is bad at night, ... But that has changed. And it's only going to get better.


On the other hand, what advancements are possible for OVF cameras? PDAF on sensor? Not really useful, except for live view... essentially you have to turn it into a mirrorless camera. Bigger, brighter viewfinder? Not possible, it has peaked, unless we're giving up AF. Better PDAF in general... it'll always be limited by having a mirror only letting through a part of the light, with PDAF sensors on the sensor itself it's exposed to all the light.


Basically while mirrorless cameras can improve a lot, DSLRs can't. Here and there, sure. Slightly better AF, better sensors. But eventually mirrorless will catch up. Better AF, better viewfinder.
01-08-2015, 10:56 AM   #655
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Maybe the reason that Panasonic and Olympus haven't progressed with their MILCs is that they limited themselves to m4/3.

Sony and Fujifilm have both increased marketshare, as a guess, because they built MILCs in the APS size and FF size (Sony only).

Its ironic that one of the main ways that Canikon have tried to modernize DSLRs has been to make them MILC-like via Liveview. And Liveview in my opinion is seriously second-rate, after having tried a real MILC.

Last edited by philbaum; 01-08-2015 at 11:02 AM.
01-08-2015, 11:08 AM   #656
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Maybe the reason that Panasonic and Olympus haven't progressed with their MILCs is that they limited themselves to m4/3.

Sony and Fujifilm have both increased marketshare, as a guess, because they built MILCs in the APS size and FF size (Sony only).

Its ironic that one of the main ways that Canikon have tried to modernize DSLRs has been to make them MILC-like via Liveview. And Liveview in my opinion is seriously second-rate, after having tried a real MILC.
Not sure exactly what you mean. Does your definition of MILC require an EVF? Because in my experience, using a K3 in live view is equivalent to using a K-01 with regard to most things. Not all MILCs have EVFs. Most of the upper end ones do, but I don't think is required.
01-08-2015, 08:34 PM   #657
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Not sure exactly what you mean. Does your definition of MILC require an EVF? Because in my experience, using a K3 in live view is equivalent to using a K-01 with regard to most things. Not all MILCs have EVFs. Most of the upper end ones do, but I don't think is required.

You're right, i wasn't clear on that. I was thinking a milc with EVF. Because that allows support from the face. I've done one test several months back comparing K3 VF held to face and taking a shot vs using liveview held out away from the body and taking a shot. And the shot with the VF held to the face was sharper. I just used liveview with AF on the K3, and it works pretty good. But its necessarily a bit of a compromise from a MILC designed from the ground up to operate in that mode.

Looking at Fujifilms and Sony, their best/top models all have EVF, but i don't consider that EVF is necessarily part the MILC term, my error.
01-09-2015, 12:48 AM   #658
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The term would be Electonic Viewfinder Interchangable Lens camera. (EVIL!) I think the ones that don't like the EVF's will surely agree.
01-09-2015, 07:33 AM   #659
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
You're right, i wasn't clear on that. I was thinking a milc with EVF. Because that allows support from the face. I've done one test several months back comparing K3 VF held to face and taking a shot vs using liveview held out away from the body and taking a shot. And the shot with the VF held to the face was sharper. I just used liveview with AF on the K3, and it works pretty good. But its necessarily a bit of a compromise from a MILC designed from the ground up to operate in that mode.

Looking at Fujifilms and Sony, their best/top models all have EVF, but i don't consider that EVF is necessarily part the MILC term, my error.
I need an EVF on my MILC. I bought a Pentax Q7 only after I established that I could modify a magnifing hood (built for a Canon EOS-M) to work with it. I also point out that neither the Q nor the EOS-M has had much success in the US and Europe.
01-09-2015, 12:03 PM   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the biggest thing is the presence (or absence) of glass for mirrorless cameras versus for existing SLRs. The average photographer really doesn't want to buy a camera for which the majority of glass requires an adapter to use.

The biggest benefit that companies that make mirrorless seem to advertise, is the smaller size of the cameras. But if the lenses are still decent sized (they will be unless they are slower), then some of that size advantage is eaten up. I don't know how many people are truly looking for tiny cameras -- smaller than a K-S1 and DA limited, for instance.
One of the interesting things about mirrorless cameras is the easy adaptation and use of all kinds of SLR lenses (in manual mode) without changing mounts or losing infinity focus. However, I agree that if you don't have that older glass, then the dearth of lenses is a big problem.

As the mirrorless cameras catch on, there may be a market for some enterprising electronics company to make an adapter for other DSLR lenses that works like the Sony E to A mount adapter, retaining AF and other electronic functions. Of course, we would probably find them only available for Canon and Nikon.

---------- Post added 01-09-15 at 12:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
You're right, i wasn't clear on that. I was thinking a milc with EVF. Because that allows support from the face. I've done one test several months back comparing K3 VF held to face and taking a shot vs using liveview held out away from the body and taking a shot. And the shot with the VF held to the face was sharper. I just used liveview with AF on the K3, and it works pretty good. But its necessarily a bit of a compromise from a MILC designed from the ground up to operate in that mode.

Looking at Fujifilms and Sony, their best/top models all have EVF, but i don't consider that EVF is necessarily part the MILC term, my error.
Completely necessary, no, but I did not really get interested in a mirrorless camera until I used a good one. Partly it is for the reason you mention and partly it is vision issues and party it is habit from 40 years of SLR use.
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