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11-22-2014, 04:15 AM   #76
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Not saying it's new, just saying that it's still happening!

11-22-2014, 04:46 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
For the sake of your marriage, don't even think about it Mark!

---------- Post added 11-22-14 at 10:14 PM ----------


Actually that isn't new. Some people bought SLRs as a status symbol in the 1980s. They just left the setting on P.
I don't really get it. Anybody can buy an used DSLR for a few buck (and get very goods photos out of it). Most will not see any difference if there not into it. You can even do more: buy an used FF DSLR like a 5D and a few primes, you get more status from experts and it is big enough it look serious to the general public.

But anyway this is not that impressive, anybody can do that, like anybody or almost anybody can buy expensive clothes. Some can do it without thinking and some might have money problem after... But they can do it... And the less money they have, the more they tend to do so !

But this doesn't give you that much in the end. When you buy something, you'd better think you'd need it. Otherwise it is just a liability as the work time you spent to get the money and the more work to store it and maintain it in good shape.
11-22-2014, 07:14 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
We live in a throw-it-away culture. Fixing things is expensive. Taking care of them is harder. Devices are made to last 3 years or so at which point they are expected to be replaced. Half the time the capacitors or other internals die after 5 years of use. Electronics are just not made to be kept for a long time, for the most part. (High-end stuff is, but few people buy it because it's, well, expensive.)
QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
We live in a throw-it-away culture. Fixing things is expensive. Taking care of them is harder. Devices are made to last 3 years or so at which point they are expected to be replaced. Half the time the capacitors or other internals die after 5 years of use. Electronics are just not made to be kept for a long time, for the most part. (High-end stuff is, but few people buy it because it's, well, expensive.)
I think you are agreeing with me.

It isn't fixing things that is expensive, so much. It's the people that fix them who are expensive. Machines make things now. Machines aren't expensive, they're precise, they don't show up late for work, drink vodka, get divorced, get mad at management or strike.

I wrote earlier - part of the calculus of a Ricoh full-on MILC is the manufacturing technology, which Sony has in spades and where other seem to have invested. I believe right now Ricoh is investing in just making Pentax manufacturing efficient for what they have before they start to make anything different.
11-22-2014, 04:54 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZoeB Quote
Not saying it's new, just saying that it's still happening!
Zoe, it's heartening to hear a young voice railing against people treating cameras merely as status symbols.

But the other thing I take from your story is that there are still twenty-somethings who think DSLRs are cool. I have been wondering whether part of the reason for the decline is sales is that they are often seen as the province of nerds and the middle aged!

---------- Post added 11-23-14 at 10:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I don't really get it. Anybody can buy an used DSLR for a few buck (and get very goods photos out of it). Most will not see any difference if there not into it.
I don't get it either. But I don't doubt Zoe's experience that some people still do see DSLRs that way.

11-23-2014, 01:39 AM   #80
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I don't think that is anything new or surprising. We all have seen it. I have several friends and relatives who still think the reason my photos are better than theirs is because I have such a "nice" or expensive camera. A few have gone out and bought entry-level Nikon or Canon DSLRs so they can take "good" pictures of the kids as they grow up. They leave the thing on "Auto" and the lens hood reversed in the carry position and wonder why they don't get photos "like Uncle Jim's." A few are considering buying up to higher end cameras to solve that problem.

On the other hand, it drives those folks crazy that my young niece, whom I gave a few basic tips on shooting children, gets better shots of her kids with her phone than the majority of the family do with their cameras. She learned more basic photography in about 10 minutes than the others will in a lifetime and diligently applies what she learned. Makes me feel good.

The truth, as we all know, is that there is no magic bullet. Buying a status symbol camera will not make a non-photographer into a photographer. They actually have to put in the work to learn the fundamentals before that expensive purchase will pay off. Many of those status symbols will eventually wind up on a closet shelf, gathering dust, while the owners go back to using their phones.
11-23-2014, 02:09 AM   #81
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I'm so glad that my nieces and their best friends are not like this. That they are interested in using not only DSLR's but film cameras, in letting me actually teach them how to really do photography just makes me so happy. Most kids their age if they have to work too hard to get to do something they just can't be bothered. It's just too hard. They always want the easiest road. I have nothing against cell cameras but it's a totally different thing to me from using real cameras. You can get some good shots with a cell camera if you have a decent one, sure, but being able to totally tweak those settings, control everything, it makes such a huge difference to me it's not even comparable.
11-23-2014, 03:01 AM   #82
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Hey, my first SLR was an LX, which i still use plenty It's a good way to get started, even in the digital age!
11-23-2014, 08:24 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaolen Quote
another year or two and mirrorless will kill DSLR. Only a small group of pros will still be holding onto them but even this market will be invaded as we're already seeing with samsungs NX1
I fear this may be correct. I stuck with Pentax, although I enjoyed using NEX cameras and the A6000, because of the lenses and the ergonomics of those wonderful K5 and K3 bodies. But the light weight and EVF of the Sony cameras were real enticements. The pictures from the A6000 were superb even without the superior quality available from te best Pentax lenses. Pentax can and should give us mirrorless with K mount and K3 ruggedness.

11-23-2014, 04:37 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
For the sake of your marriage, don't even think about it Mark!
Thanks Des!
You should have seen the look I got yesterday from Mrs Jerling when I quite seriously contemplated pulling out the plastic for a espresso machine. $3,500 for this: .:: Faema ::.
11-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Thanks Des!
You should have seen the look I got yesterday from Mrs Jerling when I quite seriously contemplated pulling out the plastic for a espresso machine. $3,500 for this: .:: Faema ::.
Whoooo! That equates roughly to a K-3 + DA 15 + FA 31 + FA 43 + FA 77. Were you preparing the ground for a lens purchase (only $900 for FA77, and think of the portraits)?
11-23-2014, 05:18 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaolen Quote
another year or two and mirrorless will kill DSLR. Only a small group of pros will still be holding onto them but even this market will be invaded as we're already seeing with samsungs NX1
I don't think this is correct. The public perception is "big, fancy camera = better." Never mind that a good 60-70% of people who buy these things never move them off automode and use pop-up flash as much as possible. (Heck, I even saw a guy shooting with a big flash in an environment in which I never went over ISO800...) As long as people think that a small camera won't be great, they won't buy it.
11-23-2014, 11:14 PM   #87
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What is such a big deal over mirrorless? cameras sans mirror have existed for hundreds of years. 35mm format started with mirrorless cameras, and later changed to SLR designs because at the it was quicker and more precise. Mirrorless is to me : a gimmick. there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with SLR cameras.

Mirrorless isn't the future,l it isn't a revolution, it is just different.





QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Machines aren't expensive, they're precise, they don't show up late for work, drink vodka, get divorced, get mad at management or strike.
Just wait until the machines get Ai then they will get a union....and demand equal rights...etc etc
11-23-2014, 11:29 PM   #88
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My latest addition. I'm looking forward to next racing season!





11-24-2014, 12:28 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by kkoether Quote
My latest addition. I'm looking forward to next racing season!
If David burnett managed to do it for the latests winter Olympics this years and applyed large format film camera to various sports and motorcycles competitions, I don't see why you couldn't do it for racing.
11-24-2014, 08:52 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
If David burnett managed to do it for the latests winter Olympics this years and applyed large format film camera to various sports and motorcycles competitions, I don't see why you couldn't do it for racing.

My biggest issue is finding A116 film. It was discontinued in 1984.
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