Are SLRs dying?

disconnekt · 12-09-2014, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

That brings up an interesting question. How many m4/3 users are formerly Olympus DSLR users and did they keep any of their old lenses?

I was thinking about the same thing. Since Oly switched their mounts from 4/3 to m4/3 (and pretty much abandoning the 4/3rd system), how many people just up and sold off their old gear to get the new m4/3 system?

eddie1960 · 12-09-2014, 06:29 PM

One of the cameras I had stolen was an e300 we still used
When I tried the omd-em5 it was a look at replacing it
Ultimately I guess the xe2 replaces it and the xt1 replaces the k10 and everything else that went funded the lenses

Eruditass · 12-09-2014, 06:30 PM

I was never a fan of mirrorless as I love the optical viewfinder look, but one area of possible major advantage of EVIL is the potential for a very large viewfinder, even if it is electric and not optical.

I've always wanted a bigger and brighter viewfinder with APS-C. There are optical limitations with mirrors and optical viewfinders. APS-C pentaprisms have nothing on old FF or MF VF's anyway.

Current EVF's aren't enough, yet, many are noisy and slow in low light.

With where technology is going, it will be no time until it is jerk free in low light, with no shutter lag, and noise free (real-time Topaz DeNoise4-like) and so many pixels and color gamut that it is indistinguishable from an optical viewfinder. It is simply a matter of processing power, and there's Moore's law.

I guarantee you that the technology will be there such that a EVF can look as good as an optical viewfinder to you or me in the near future.

We can have 100% coverage, XXX% size viewfinder (not rear LCD), as bright as we want in darkness from low light or say 100mm of extension tubes, 1000 f/13, and so forth.

Also, the major barrier of phase-detect auto-focus is starting to erode away.

However, for the astrophotographers out there, one day we will have very low-brightness displays, but it will probably be quite a while unfortunately.

kadajawi · 12-09-2014, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Eruditass

I was never a fan of mirrorless as I love the optical viewfinder look, but one area of possible major advantage of EVIL is the potential for a very large viewfinder, even if it is electric and not optical.

I've always wanted a bigger and brighter viewfinder with APS-C. There are optical limitations with mirrors and optical viewfinders. APS-C pentaprisms have nothing on old FF or MF VF's anyway.

Current EVF's aren't enough, yet, many are noisy and slow in low light.

With where technology is going, it will be no time until it is jerk free in low light, with no shutter lag, and noise free (real-time Topaz DeNoise4-like) and so many pixels and color gamut that it is indistinguishable from an optical viewfinder. It is simply a matter of processing power, and there's Moore's law.

I guarantee you that the technology will be there such that a EVF can look as good as an optical viewfinder to you or me in the near future.

We can have 100% coverage, XXX% size viewfinder (not rear LCD), as bright as we want in darkness from low light or say 100mm of extension tubes, 1000 f/13, and so forth.

Also, the major barrier of phase-detect auto-focus is starting to erode away.

However, for the astrophotographers out there, one day we will have very low-brightness displays, but it will probably be quite a while unfortunately.

I agree with all of that. As for low brightness displays? Some smartphones have such a mode, where they can go _VERY_ dim. Especially with OLED displays that's not too hard. Maybe you'd lose some fidelity and fine gradations (as it might be in part a software solution...), but it'll be good enough.

krgroothuis · 12-09-2014, 11:44 PM

I would like a Pentax DSLR with an electronic overlay in the optical viewfinder !

match47 · 12-19-2014, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Just1MoreDave

Ricky Rudd and Ron Bouchard in the 83 Daytona 500? Rudd was in the middle of his Childress years, Bouchard driving for J. D. Stacy. I looked that part up, but I think I remember watching this race on TV.

On topic is way less exciting - the race was won by Cale Yarborough over Buddy Baker, a classic! Anyway, how many camera styles have actually died? A lot are still hanging on. The upstart technologies will have to get better before the funeral planning begins.

Believe it or not, I watched the Daytona 500! I came over from Germany, was hitch-hiking down the East Coast, when I met a friendly radio man - Ed Dornig (?) from ... - who invited me to the race.
OK, nobody's interested in my old student's memories, OK.
But seeing the photo here and reading your comment, I just had to reply.
Thanks a lot for refreshing a wonderful time!

**Rondec** · 12-19-2014, 08:38 PM

I guess I wonder if the k mounts days are numbered. Is it a legacy mount that will eventually only be supported by adapters? Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it?

aleonx3 · 12-19-2014, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I guess I wonder if the k mounts days are numbered. Is it a legacy mount that will eventually only be supported by adapters? Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it?

Theoretically speaking yes, nothing will last forever including k-mount, as you said, eventually; it will be supported only via adapter (hopefully with full functionality initially) some day.

**Digitalis** · 12-19-2014, 09:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it?

oh yes let us all jump onto the sony bandwagon..I'l just throw all my pentax glass under the wheels while I watch the fanboys pass by.

If Sony is the future of photography :

Clavius · 12-20-2014, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

oh yes let us all jump onto the sony bandwagon..I'l just throw all my pentax glass under the wheels while I watch you people pass by.

If Sony is the future of photography :

Isn't that a little overly dramatic?

**Digitalis** · 12-20-2014, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Isn't that a little overly dramatic?

If you take into account the business ethos of the sony corporation, not really.

**Rondec** · 12-20-2014, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

Theoretically speaking yes, nothing will last forever including k-mount, as you said, eventually; it will be supported only via adapter (hopefully with full functionality initially) some day.

Are you talking thirty years till this k mount demise or a lot shorter? I don't really understand what is wrong with the f mount or the k mount that would be fixed by going with something like the FE mount.

philbaum · 12-20-2014, 05:38 AM

The broader issue is: Will mirrorless/EVFs/new technologies dethrone the traditional DSLR? I think the answer is yes. And it isn't just Sony, its Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm as well. The revolution is underway and the mirrorless camera is the new technology weapon of choice to break up the existing duopoly.

kadajawi · 12-20-2014, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Are you talking thirty years till this k mount demise or a lot shorter? I don't really understand what is wrong with the f mount or the k mount that would be fixed by going with something like the FE mount.

The flange distance is excessive. That's all that disturbs me with the K mount. When the switch to mirrorless is made (and I have no doubt it will happen, as mirrorless will be at least as good as SLR in all areas, or better than that), and other brands have introduced lenses designed for a shorter flange distance, then being stuck with K mount is a disadvantage leading to larger body + lens combos when they don't have to be.

And IMHO having the lens and body in a compact but not too light combo is better for stability. My K-5 + DA 50 1.8 is about as heavy as my K-5 + DA 18-55. At 50mm I can get much longer exposures without camera shake on the 50 1.8 than on the 18-55, which has the weight spread out more. Let alone being able to pack more stuff in the camera bag (or have a smaller camera bag).

Ideally Pentax, when making the switch to mirrorless (even if only half way), will introduce a new mount and new lenses meant for it. Don't be late to the party. They also have to offer an adapter that makes using K mount lenses absolutely problem free, without any drawbacks (so proper and fast AF, metering, has to be solid, ...), and ideally it should be offered in a kit with the new mirrorless camera. Maybe the body/new mount won't support screw drive AF anymore, but then the adapter needs to have a motor (have the motor around the lens mount, connected to a gear that sits where the screw usually is?).

**Rondec** · 12-20-2014, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

The broader issue is: Will mirrorless/EVFs/new technologies dethrone the traditional DSLR? I think the answer is yes. And it isn't just Sony, its Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm as well. The revolution is underway and the mirrorless camera is the new technology weapon of choice to break up the existing duopoly.

I see Olympus and Panasonic as having trouble, since their cameras and lenses are not capable of accommodating larger sensors. If the price of full frame sensors continues to come down, there will be a squeeze pushing smaller sensor cameras to entry level positions and really hurting revenue.

12-19-2014, 09:13 PM - 1 Like	#504
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Rondec Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it? oh yes let us all jump onto the sony bandwagon..I'l just throw all my pentax glass under the wheels while I watch the fanboys pass by. If Sony is the future of photography : Last edited by Digitalis; 12-20-2014 at 06:54 AM.

12-20-2014, 02:49 AM	#506
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Clavius Isn't that a little overly dramatic? If you take into account the business ethos of the sony corporation, not really. Last edited by Digitalis; 12-20-2014 at 03:01 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Nature Dying Flowers	Dr Orloff	Photo Critique	3	02-02-2014 07:36 PM
Landscape The living and dying.	BigJPR	Photo Critique	25	05-09-2013 05:51 AM
Dying voice of reason....	jeffkrol	General Talk	3	12-14-2012 11:25 AM
GOP problem: 'Their voters are white, aging and dying off'	jeffkrol	General Talk	42	05-22-2012 08:40 AM
Are all FILM SLRs safe with older flashes?	ismaelg	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	5	03-29-2012 08:53 PM

12-09-2014, 01:37 PM	#496
disconnekt Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SoCal/I.E. Photos: Albums Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by IchabodCrane That brings up an interesting question. How many m4/3 users are formerly Olympus DSLR users and did they keep any of their old lenses? I was thinking about the same thing. Since Oly switched their mounts from 4/3 to m4/3 (and pretty much abandoning the 4/3rd system), how many people just up and sold off their old gear to get the new m4/3 system?

12-09-2014, 06:29 PM	#497
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	One of the cameras I had stolen was an e300 we still used When I tried the omd-em5 it was a look at replacing it Ultimately I guess the xe2 replaces it and the xt1 replaces the k10 and everything else that went funded the lenses

12-09-2014, 06:30 PM	#498
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	I was never a fan of mirrorless as I love the optical viewfinder look, but one area of possible major advantage of EVIL is the potential for a very large viewfinder, even if it is electric and not optical. I've always wanted a bigger and brighter viewfinder with APS-C. There are optical limitations with mirrors and optical viewfinders. APS-C pentaprisms have nothing on old FF or MF VF's anyway. Current EVF's aren't enough, yet, many are noisy and slow in low light. With where technology is going, it will be no time until it is jerk free in low light, with no shutter lag, and noise free (real-time Topaz DeNoise4-like) and so many pixels and color gamut that it is indistinguishable from an optical viewfinder. It is simply a matter of processing power, and there's Moore's law. I guarantee you that the technology will be there such that a EVF can look as good as an optical viewfinder to you or me in the near future. We can have 100% coverage, XXX% size viewfinder (not rear LCD), as bright as we want in darkness from low light or say 100mm of extension tubes, 1000 f/13, and so forth. Also, the major barrier of phase-detect auto-focus is starting to erode away. However, for the astrophotographers out there, one day we will have very low-brightness displays, but it will probably be quite a while unfortunately.

12-09-2014, 08:19 PM	#499
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Eruditass I was never a fan of mirrorless as I love the optical viewfinder look, but one area of possible major advantage of EVIL is the potential for a very large viewfinder, even if it is electric and not optical. I've always wanted a bigger and brighter viewfinder with APS-C. There are optical limitations with mirrors and optical viewfinders. APS-C pentaprisms have nothing on old FF or MF VF's anyway. Current EVF's aren't enough, yet, many are noisy and slow in low light. With where technology is going, it will be no time until it is jerk free in low light, with no shutter lag, and noise free (real-time Topaz DeNoise4-like) and so many pixels and color gamut that it is indistinguishable from an optical viewfinder. It is simply a matter of processing power, and there's Moore's law. I guarantee you that the technology will be there such that a EVF can look as good as an optical viewfinder to you or me in the near future. We can have 100% coverage, XXX% size viewfinder (not rear LCD), as bright as we want in darkness from low light or say 100mm of extension tubes, 1000 f/13, and so forth. Also, the major barrier of phase-detect auto-focus is starting to erode away. However, for the astrophotographers out there, one day we will have very low-brightness displays, but it will probably be quite a while unfortunately. I agree with all of that. As for low brightness displays? Some smartphones have such a mode, where they can go _VERY_ dim. Especially with OLED displays that's not too hard. Maybe you'd lose some fidelity and fine gradations (as it might be in part a software solution...), but it'll be good enough.

12-09-2014, 11:44 PM	#500
krgroothuis Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Winsum, the Netherlands Posts: 86	I would like a Pentax DSLR with an electronic overlay in the optical viewfinder !

12-19-2014, 05:04 PM	#501
match47 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hamburg Posts: 3	Originally posted by Just1MoreDave Ricky Rudd and Ron Bouchard in the 83 Daytona 500? Rudd was in the middle of his Childress years, Bouchard driving for J. D. Stacy. I looked that part up, but I think I remember watching this race on TV. On topic is way less exciting - the race was won by Cale Yarborough over Buddy Baker, a classic! Anyway, how many camera styles have actually died? A lot are still hanging on. The upstart technologies will have to get better before the funeral planning begins. Believe it or not, I watched the Daytona 500! I came over from Germany, was hitch-hiking down the East Coast, when I met a friendly radio man - Ed Dornig (?) from ... - who invited me to the race. OK, nobody's interested in my old student's memories, OK. But seeing the photo here and reading your comment, I just had to reply. Thanks a lot for refreshing a wonderful time!

12-19-2014, 08:38 PM	#502
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653 Original Poster	I guess I wonder if the k mounts days are numbered. Is it a legacy mount that will eventually only be supported by adapters? Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it?

12-19-2014, 09:04 PM	#503
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Rondec I guess I wonder if the k mounts days are numbered. Is it a legacy mount that will eventually only be supported by adapters? Are there particular benefits the FE mount has over the k mount other being able to adapt all sorts of glass to it? Theoretically speaking yes, nothing will last forever including k-mount, as you said, eventually; it will be supported only via adapter (hopefully with full functionality initially) some day.

12-20-2014, 02:41 AM	#505
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Digitalis oh yes let us all jump onto the sony bandwagon..I'l just throw all my pentax glass under the wheels while I watch you people pass by. If Sony is the future of photography : Isn't that a little overly dramatic?

12-20-2014, 05:18 AM	#507
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653 Original Poster	Originally posted by aleonx3 Theoretically speaking yes, nothing will last forever including k-mount, as you said, eventually; it will be supported only via adapter (hopefully with full functionality initially) some day. Are you talking thirty years till this k mount demise or a lot shorter? I don't really understand what is wrong with the f mount or the k mount that would be fixed by going with something like the FE mount.

12-20-2014, 05:38 AM	#508
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	The broader issue is: Will mirrorless/EVFs/new technologies dethrone the traditional DSLR? I think the answer is yes. And it isn't just Sony, its Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm as well. The revolution is underway and the mirrorless camera is the new technology weapon of choice to break up the existing duopoly.

12-20-2014, 05:51 AM	#509
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Rondec Are you talking thirty years till this k mount demise or a lot shorter? I don't really understand what is wrong with the f mount or the k mount that would be fixed by going with something like the FE mount. The flange distance is excessive. That's all that disturbs me with the K mount. When the switch to mirrorless is made (and I have no doubt it will happen, as mirrorless will be at least as good as SLR in all areas, or better than that), and other brands have introduced lenses designed for a shorter flange distance, then being stuck with K mount is a disadvantage leading to larger body + lens combos when they don't have to be. And IMHO having the lens and body in a compact but not too light combo is better for stability. My K-5 + DA 50 1.8 is about as heavy as my K-5 + DA 18-55. At 50mm I can get much longer exposures without camera shake on the 50 1.8 than on the 18-55, which has the weight spread out more. Let alone being able to pack more stuff in the camera bag (or have a smaller camera bag). Ideally Pentax, when making the switch to mirrorless (even if only half way), will introduce a new mount and new lenses meant for it. Don't be late to the party. They also have to offer an adapter that makes using K mount lenses absolutely problem free, without any drawbacks (so proper and fast AF, metering, has to be solid, ...), and ideally it should be offered in a kit with the new mirrorless camera. Maybe the body/new mount won't support screw drive AF anymore, but then the adapter needs to have a motor (have the motor around the lens mount, connected to a gear that sits where the screw usually is?).

12-20-2014, 05:53 AM	#510
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum The broader issue is: Will mirrorless/EVFs/new technologies dethrone the traditional DSLR? I think the answer is yes. And it isn't just Sony, its Samsung, Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm as well. The revolution is underway and the mirrorless camera is the new technology weapon of choice to break up the existing duopoly. I see Olympus and Panasonic as having trouble, since their cameras and lenses are not capable of accommodating larger sensors. If the price of full frame sensors continues to come down, there will be a squeeze pushing smaller sensor cameras to entry level positions and really hurting revenue.