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11-26-2014, 02:11 AM   #76
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Just looking at the Pentax body prices at the moment (eg at B&H), it struck me that Pentax currently have the 645Z (body only) for $8500, and the K-3 for $800. With the fall in K-3 prices, that's become a bigger gulf than ever.

Ricoh are simply crazy for not being able to offer buyers something in between. They have enormous scope to fill that gap with a decent FF (or two).

Sigh.

11-26-2014, 02:16 AM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
But i think that MF cameras market doesnt change as fast as the FF is now.. So RICOH have to know that each day that they delay their FF release is a day that competitors have to sell their products to new costumers.. So perhaps in this case they will have to be moving faster that what they did before. ( or at least i hope that they do )... I will love to see a FF announced by CP+ and a few time later the official release... let see how it goes.
I'll repeat what I said earlier on: Sony is rumored to be developing a Medium Format Mirroless camera. And with Sony's current development track record I think we should at least consider that there might be truth to this rumor. If it surfaces, it's safe to say the Sony is going to be smaller, cheaper and more advanced then the 645z. For Pentax, catching up in the FF area has become very unrealistic. But doing some damage control in their flagship range, the 645 format, is still possible.

If Pentax wants to do damage control in the FF area, they could go straight against the grain. Do something very unexpected. Like being the first to market a very basic and cheap FF format DSLR or MILC. It's the only niche left. They did it before with film, and it worked.

Last edited by Clavius; 11-26-2014 at 02:53 AM.
11-26-2014, 02:18 AM   #78
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What about the mount? would a new FF from pentax retain the actual K-mount of the K5/K3 ?
11-26-2014, 02:20 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hattifnatt Quote
would a new FF from pentax retain the actual K-mount of the K5/K3
Of course. K-mount has been full-frame since it was introduced in 1975. No further work required.

11-26-2014, 02:44 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hattifnatt Quote
What about the mount? would a new FF from pentax retain the actual K-mount of the K5/K3 ?
It should be K mount.. They have already some glass, Sigma and Tamron have some K mount FF glass too.. so.. there is no point of doing another mount if they have everything just "waiting" for the FF body.. Its almost sure that they will release at least 2 lenses along the FF body.. and perhaps in the future will do a FA 2nd Generation.. with HD coating and better motors or something like that.. but AT THIS TIME, if tomorrow pentax puts FF body in the stores, we have some options to choose.
11-26-2014, 03:30 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
For some reason many still think that full frame is to be announced, the fall will be hard hitting. Especially when a K-3 successor is announced. I think it was 2 years from K-5 to K-5II/IIs then one year to the K-3, it is possible that the K-3 successor could be announced next year for November 2015 release. I still think Ricoh are undecided on a full frame release, for me, development of FF does not = it is coming.
CR Kennedy staff member told me only yesterday that FF is to be announced / released "some time next year"...apparently that's all the info they currently have out of Ricoh (although he didn't have much doubt about the "next year" bit).

He thought CP+ in Feb would be a logical event for an announcement...but that was just speculation on his part.

My discussion yesterday is not unique. There have been numerous reports of similar discussions with Ricoh reps at, and since Photokina. Whilst your scepticism is certainly understandable and entirely justified, this time I think the FF hopefuls have a very good reason to be excited

---------- Post added 11-26-14 at 09:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Just looking at the Pentax body prices at the moment (eg at B&H), it struck me that Pentax currently have the 645Z (body only) for $8500, and the K-3 for $800. With the fall in K-3 prices, that's become a bigger gulf than ever.

Ricoh are simply crazy for not being able to offer buyers something in between. They have enormous scope to fill that gap with a decent FF (or two).

Sigh.
See my post above. I think the long wait, and attendant frustrations, are almost over
11-26-2014, 03:39 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
It should be K mount.. They have already some glass, Sigma and Tamron have some K mount FF glass too.. so.. there is no point of doing another mount if they have everything just "waiting" for the FF body.. Its almost sure that they will release at least 2 lenses along the FF body.. and perhaps in the future will do a FA 2nd Generation.. with HD coating and better motors or something like that.. but AT THIS TIME, if tomorrow pentax puts FF body in the stores, we have some options to choose.
That sounds like a very weak way to enter the full frame market. I think this approach would only keep a few of the faithful Pentax fans happy but would not attract many newcomers.

When you think about the spec customers expect of a $1,000-$2,000 lens, they would want quick, silent focusing, weather resistance, the latest coatings, and top-notch image quality. How many lenses does Pentax make that meet all of these criteria? Perhaps a couple of the DA* lenses if you forget that they are officially marketed at APS-C compatible.

They're going to have to do a lot more than that if they want to be a credible alternative Canon, Nikon, or even Sony.
11-26-2014, 03:48 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
CR Kennedy staff member told me only yesterday that FF is to be announced / released "some time next year"...apparently that's all the info they currently have out of Ricoh (although he didn't have much doubt about the "next year" bit).

He thought CP+ in Feb would be a logical event for an announcement...but that was just speculation on his part.

My discussion yesterday is not unique. There have been numerous reports of similar discussions with Ricoh reps at, and since Photokina. Whilst your scepticism is certainly understandable and entirely justified, this time I think the FF hopefuls have a very good reason to be excited

---------- Post added 11-26-14 at 09:37 PM ----------



See my post above. I think the long wait, and attendant frustrations, are almost over
Thanks Poit, I take that as a positive step toward Full Frame and I await for the announcement, cheers
ps. I hope their information is actually from Ricoh and not off the web.

edit: actually if true I would expect a refurbish on the 24,31,43,77,135mm lenses with updated coatings to suit FF.


Last edited by beachgardener; 11-26-2014 at 03:52 AM. Reason: add info.
11-26-2014, 04:03 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
Thanks Poit, I take that as a positive step toward Full Frame and I await for the announcement, cheers
ps. I hope their information is actually from Ricoh and not off the web.

edit: actually if true I would expect a refurbish on the 24,31,43,77,135mm lenses with updated coatings to suit FF.
No, it wasn't from the web, it was from Ricoh. CR Kennedy are the Australian distributor (you probably know that, being an Aussie), so it's credible information coming from them.

Actually, he sounded a little tired and annoyed with Ricoh that they won't provide any more info (beyond "next year") yet.

In terms of what we can expect at announcement, who knows? Given Ricoh's recent track record, I don't think it'll be a half arsed effort. By the same token they'll be stretched with manufacturing capacity if they release too many new products at once. I'd say a decent starting line-up of two or three quality zooms, and perhaps three or four primes (a refresh of the ltds seems logical to begin with). Time will tell.
11-26-2014, 04:11 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
No, it wasn't from the web, it was from Ricoh. CR Kennedy are the Australian distributor (you probably know that, being an Aussie), so it's credible information coming from them.

Actually, he sounded a little tired and annoyed with Ricoh that they won't provide any more info (beyond "next year") yet.

In terms of what we can expect at announcement, who knows? Given Ricoh's recent track record, I don't think it'll be a half arsed effort. By the same token they'll be stretched with manufacturing capacity if they release too many new products at once. I'd say a decent starting line-up of two or three quality zooms, and perhaps three or four primes (a refresh of the ltds seems logical to begin with). Time will tell.
No worries thanks mate, yes I know CRK, good stuff, this is the first solid credible info. I've heard so far, well in that case, I definitely look forward to the announcement next year, and yes Pentax will do something amasing for sure, and I do still expect a K-3 replacement as well, but as you say time will tell.
ps. all of my lenses bar one are full frame, and next purchases will also be full frame. About 12 months ago a Pentax rep. did say, (not to me) in answer to the full frame question, "well don't sell off your full frame lenses just yet".
Cheers.
11-26-2014, 04:39 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
CR Kennedy staff member told me only yesterday that FF is to be announced / released "some time next year"...apparently that's all the info they currently have out of Ricoh (although he didn't have much doubt about the "next year" bit).

He thought CP+ in Feb would be a logical event for an announcement...but that was just speculation on his part.

My discussion yesterday is not unique. There have been numerous reports of similar discussions with Ricoh reps at, and since Photokina. Whilst your scepticism is certainly understandable and entirely justified, this time I think the FF hopefuls have a very good reason to be excited
Yes, but a lot has happened since Pentax (maybe) decided to start developing their FF offering. They may have decided to go back to the drawing board because of those recent developments. Lets face it, we're talking about rumors, not announcements or promises.
11-26-2014, 06:03 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Scratch the 35ltd and add the DA35/2.4.
Yes, but from what I've seen the 35 ltd only requires moderate cropping at normal distances and no cropping at close focus/macro, so it will be a quite useful lens on FF too.
11-26-2014, 06:04 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
more than 4-5 lenses already in place ( a couple may need a renew to DFA naming but they have been tested by people on FF (either mirrorless/canon or film) this is off the top of my head but there are dozens of posts on what is compatible
DA35 LTD
31/43/77
200
300
100 macro
50 macro
50 1.4
50 1.8
560
and the TC I believe

need a 20, 24, 28 85 135 and at least 2 zooms (24-70/70-200 - though a UWA zoom is needed as well)

Sigma fills a lot of gaps as well (And I imagine will add pentax mount to a number of lenses once FF is out and they are doing a new run on the lens)
Add the DA*55 1.4
11-26-2014, 07:39 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
That sounds like a very weak way to enter the full frame market. I think this approach would only keep a few of the faithful Pentax fans happy but would not attract many newcomers.

When you think about the spec customers expect of a $1,000-$2,000 lens, they would want quick, silent focusing, weather resistance, the latest coatings, and top-notch image quality. How many lenses does Pentax make that meet all of these criteria? Perhaps a couple of the DA* lenses if you forget that they are officially marketed at APS-C compatible.

They're going to have to do a lot more than that if they want to be a credible alternative Canon, Nikon, or even Sony.
Agree completely. Which is why I don't understand why Ricoh/Pentax would even venture into the FF market. I would much rather they produce a proper APS-C mirrorless, with EVF, tilting screen, thin body, with available adapters for K mount and M42 lenses. Seems to have worked well for Fuji ....
11-26-2014, 07:49 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
But i think that MF cameras market doesnt change as fast as the FF is now.. So RICOH have to know that each day that they delay their FF release is a day that competitors have to sell their products to new costumers.. So perhaps in this case they will have to be moving faster that what they did before. ( or at least i hope that they do )... I will love to see a FF announced by CP+ and a few time later the official release... let see how it goes.
The FF market doesn't change that quickly, only a little bit faster than the APS-C market (sure, it's faster than medium format). With a strong enough first showing, it's good for a couple years on the market. Look at Nikon's D800-D810—took two years to get the upgrade. The D610 was only rushed to release due to faults in the D600. Canon marches to the beat of its own slow cadence since they also fab their own sensors, but the 5D II was on the market for four (!) years before the III came out.

Ricoh is in no great rush to get this out the door, especially if there are better Sony sensors around the corner or other tech they're waiting on. The competition is unlikely to surprise them with a camera that's in the same class as an FF K since the only one due for an update is the 6D (which, from Canon's perspective, is still viable since it's only two years old). Nikon got its updates out of the way this year.

I've been keenly watching the market and I stick by my assessment of the situation. Concept early 2015, debut later on in 2015. If we're lucky, Ricoh will have press meetings and hands-on with the concept this time around instead of just showing it off under glass. This gives the company a chance to hear a bit of feedback before finalizing a few things.
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