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12-17-2014, 11:53 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
It's also silly to buy an older model that doesn't have the features you want just because it is less expensive.
Many want more than what their money can buy, they need to prioritize then. It is not silly.

12-17-2014, 12:24 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Many want more than what their money can buy, they need to prioritize then. It is not silly.
Nicholas, the K-S1 with kit lens can be bought here in Australia for $50 more than the K-50 which has less resolution, less pixels, no HDMI, no WiFi capability.

You said prices were the same in France.

From Adorama in the US, wasn't there a $439 special?

IMHO, you've obsessed about the official launch price, which others have pointed out to you is following the traditional arc of Pentax products.

If and when a FF appears, I wouldn't expect it to go to market at less than $2000, even if they could do it for $1500.

You always charge early adopters more, drop price to the 'real' level, then discount heavily at end-of-life when you're essentially getting rid of the remaining inventory in the warehouse.

Last edited by clackers; 12-17-2014 at 01:01 PM.
12-17-2014, 12:58 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Many want more than what their money can buy, they need to prioritize then. It is not silly.
I said "JUST because it is less expensive". That's not prioritizing. That's looking at a price tag. The K-5IIs is $500 at B&H now, so I won't even consider the K-3. A used K-30 is $328, so I won't look at a K-5IIs.
12-17-2014, 01:05 PM   #34
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I can't believe we're still arguing about price when the price has gone down to 437 dollars for the body.

12-17-2014, 01:07 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by i_trax Quote
in black does not look silly at all, and with Limiteds it looks and feels very cool
I will say it does look better in black, but as a guy who sold audio for years it reminds me of the old all in one stereos in the 80s with flashing runway lights etc. that's not a good thing sine those were universally awful junk and what is a decent performing camera get's cheapened by that type of thing.

---------- Post added 17th Dec 2014 at 15:19 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
That's nice but it doesn't change anything in fact to me. if at one point in time something is more expensive because it is new as opposed to old... This by far not a reason to buy. That's was my point.

Today, K3 is 800$, K-S1 600$ and K50 350$ all at B&H... K3 is older than K-S1... I didn't check other seller because well I'am not living in US anyway... But if I'am going to buy one camera from Pentax now in the states, this is kind of indicator I would check. Even through the K50 launch price was near to K-S1 this isn't relevant anymore.

To me, the biggest bargains now are on K3 & K50, to choose K-S1 one really need to value its specifities as overall its price is not so good compared to the other 2. You even said the ergonomics were so-so. When reading that to me the only reason is it being lighter. Performance wise K3 win by far and price wise K50 win by far. This fully apply compared to K3 for weight factor... Compared to K50 there not that big of a difference. Both need batteries to work and then the numbers are not so impressive. So the lightness factor as to be really key to decide for K-S1 as current price.

At $450 it would more justify the buy to me and will be much better placed compared to K50 & K3 prices.

In France on Amazon both K50 & K-S1 have same price of 450, including in both case some lense (DA50 for K-S1 & 18-55 for K50). Here I see much more reasons to go the K-S1 route. Just the DA50 cost 140 alone and the offering the price is same as K50, making K-S1 overall better value than K50.
you miss the entrie idea of how pricing works, early adopters of a model pay a premium to get it fiorst. the extra profit that comes in from those sales pay dfown the amortized R&D cost of the product, as the product gets older and has less new feature content it drops in price. sometimes you will end up with the silly situation of a product from a category above (like say the k5ii) in final clearout mode hitting the price or lower of the new lower tier model. that helps clear the decks for the next higher model though .this is true of pretty much anything in the electronics world and for that matter fashion (which has a much shorter cycle from launch to clearance in 8 weeks or so). If I really want an item and need it now if it is the beginning of the cycle i will pay a premium I'm aware of that and ok with it. generally though i will look towards end of cycle for the value and see if it fit's my needs first. I spent a lot of years as an early adopter in audio and stopped that . now i buy when i need to. I learned the lesson before DSLR - I paid $1100 for my *ist ds though because i wanted it then and saw the value. seems a hell of a lot now when i look at the X-T1 i bought for $950
12-17-2014, 01:28 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I will say it does look better in black, but as a guy who sold audio for years it reminds me of the old all in one stereos in the 80s with flashing runway lights etc. that's not a good thing sine those were universally awful junk and what is a decent performing camera get's cheapened by that type of thing.

---------- Post added 17th Dec 2014 at 15:19 ----------



you miss the entrie idea of how pricing works, early adopters of a model pay a premium to get it fiorst. the extra profit that comes in from those sales pay dfown the amortized R&D cost of the product, as the product gets older and has less new feature content it drops in price. sometimes you will end up with the silly situation of a product from a category above (like say the k5ii) in final clearout mode hitting the price or lower of the new lower tier model. that helps clear the decks for the next higher model though .this is true of pretty much anything in the electronics world and for that matter fashion (which has a much shorter cycle from launch to clearance in 8 weeks or so). If I really want an item and need it now if it is the beginning of the cycle i will pay a premium I'm aware of that and ok with it. generally though i will look towards end of cycle for the value and see if it fit's my needs first. I spent a lot of years as an early adopter in audio and stopped that . now i buy when i need to. I learned the lesson before DSLR - I paid $1100 for my *ist ds though because i wanted it then and saw the value. seems a hell of a lot now when i look at the X-T1 i bought for $950
Exactly, one can pay a premium for something new... It doesn't mean this is the smartest decision ever. If now K-S1 is cheap, that pretty nice for buyers

Still if it cheap that fast from 750 to 450 it likely mean it didn't sell well at all and the early adopter didn't go into it that much. Never seen the price dropping that fast for K5 or K3 or K50 or K30.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-17-2014 at 01:35 PM.
12-17-2014, 01:31 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I can't believe we're still arguing about price when the price has gone down to 437 dollars for the body.
That seems to be an Amazon anomaly. It's still ~ $600 at B&H, and many folks will only buy from them. Also, there are countries outside the US where the K-S1 is significantly more expensive than the K-50.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Amazon price rose after Christmas.
12-17-2014, 03:48 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
I completely agree that it is silly to pay more just because something is new. It's also foolish to give up the features you really want, just because an older model is cheaper.
While you wait for the price to come down you self-deny use of whatever marginal features the new camera offers. The difference between the original issue price and whatever discounted amount you later pay for the camera can be thought of as equivalent to rent. It is the value of the (lost) use of the new features over time during the 'waiting' period.

If you prefer to call that a cost, it is an opportunity cost.

12-17-2014, 04:05 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
While you wait for the price to come down you self-deny use of whatever marginal features the new camera offers. The difference between the original issue price and whatever discounted amount you later pay for the camera can be thought of as equivalent to rent. It is the value of the (lost) use of the new features over time during the 'waiting' period.

If you prefer to call that a cost, it is an opportunity cost.
And if we go that way, you should compare this to the value you gain from using the money on other things like I don't know, go for a trip, more tastefull meals, a ski weekend or anything else that may be of interest to you !
12-17-2014, 04:12 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
And if we go that way, you should compare this to the value you gain from using the money on other things like I don't know, go for a trip, more tastefull meals, a ski weekend or anything else that may be of interest to you !
Presumably you will upgrade your body in the future, Nicholas, and that is a calculation of course you will need to make.
12-18-2014, 01:11 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Presumably you will upgrade your body in the future, Nicholas, and that is a calculation of course you will need to make.
Exactly ! I know that I tend to fail on theses computation, but I will not pretend the contrary. I tend to want to spend more than what I have

At least I managed an FA77 and to go to India & Italy this year but now I need to be careful for some time
03-24-2015, 05:36 PM   #42
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Camera Magazine Imaging Awards: KS1 best Consumer Camera of 2015

This should offset the bad taste left by those wannabes at the camera store. I gave them a piece of my mind in the comment section. TheCamera Store (which is an actual camera store) to me is an online version of street peddling, they basically put their stamp of approval on whatever camera is shipping that week.

Chris: " Sony A600 is a great camera, we sold a shitload of these..Caching..." Next up, Hero GoPro 3 is the best camera in the market....here we go"

Camera Magazine Imaging Awards 2015 announced | Camera | News | AVHub

Last edited by Stavri; 03-24-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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