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05-25-2008, 08:20 AM   #1
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Is this something ISO 100 + K200D can help with?

I have a K100D and a black and white dog. I take a lot of pictures of him.

However, when the light is pretty bright outdoors, the white gets kind of blown out sometimes.

Is there something I can do about this by changing my settings? Are there any upgrades to the K200D that would help with this issue, such as it's ability to do ISO100?

Here is an example:



Taken with the K100D and FA 50mm 1.4. No post-processing except for resizing... I think the EXIF data should be there too...

I hope this is the right forum for this question...

Thanks for any potential help or advice you guys can give me.

05-25-2008, 08:35 AM   #2
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well im no pro at this, and anyone is welcome to correct me if im wrong but the problem you have is that the black/white fur is too much for the camera (or any camera) to handle. The k100d decided that to get the black fur detail, it needs to expose at your current settings, thereby blowing out the whites. If you want the detail in the white fur, the black will be so dark, you wont see any detail at all. The only solution i see is that you take 2 fast shots at different exposure times (one to capture white detail, one to capture black) and photoshop them together. if you can get your dog to stay still long enough that is. Sorta like HDR photography.

Another example of this problem would be a shadow on a bright day. Do you want the detail hiding in the shadow, or do you want the detail in the bright blue sky? you cant get both.
05-25-2008, 08:35 AM   #3
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you have a beautiful dog btw. Cockerspaniel? I have 3
05-25-2008, 08:52 AM   #4
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It appears that the camera metered off the black, which will cause the whites to be blown out.

You don't have an issue with ISO because if you look at the EXIF data you are only at F4 and 1/45.

it is nopt a case of too bright an image for ISO200 just metering better.

You might want to go to manual metering, and deliberately under expose by about 1-2 stops, or set exposure compeneation.

Blacks and whites are the most difficult to get good detail, yet retain the relitive lightness or darkness, and you have put them both together.

05-25-2008, 09:37 AM   #5
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^^ It does seem to be a bit worse when it's bright sunlight. I assume it's because the light is reflecting off of the white in larger amounts, while the camera is still trying to expose for the black?

I'll try out what you guys are suggesting. I have tried exposure compensation, but maybe it wasn't by enough.

I guess this isn't a good excuse to splurge for a K200D, huh?

GatorPentax: Thanks and yes, he's a Cocker Spaniel (American). Nice to meet a fellow Pentaxian who is also a lover of this breed.

Here is a better picture of him that also has a bit of my black vs white issue... just not as bad on him. I've had ones where you're just blinded by the white...

05-25-2008, 10:05 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by boushh Quote
such as it's ability to do ISO100?
I handle situations like this as follows:
Underexpose by 0-2EV, shoot RAW, and use "restore highlight" in LightRoom. In your first sample, you most likely would have been able to restore highlights in RAW processing alone.

Because of the underexposition, ISO100 helps to keep the resulting shadow noise low. But this really should be an issue only if you run into noise trouble which you obviously haven't yet.
05-25-2008, 10:45 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I handle situations like this as follows:
Underexpose by 0-2EV, shoot RAW, and use "restore highlight" in LightRoom. In your first sample, you most likely would have been able to restore highlights in RAW processing alone.
I don't have LightRoom, how would one do this in Pentax Photo Lab?

QuoteQuote:
Because of the underexposition, ISO100 helps to keep the resulting shadow noise low. But this really should be an issue only if you run into noise trouble which you obviously haven't yet.
Ah, this is a good point. You're right though. This doesn't seem to be too much of a problem for me right now. I'll try underexposing by quite a bit more as you suggest, and see what the noise level (if any) is like.

Thanks for your response.
05-25-2008, 11:25 AM   #8
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Google HDR on the web to find a free software for High Dynamic Range, the process your photo twice: first for highlights, then shadows. After that is done just merge them as a HDR. Works better with a moving (living)subject than trying to take two pictures in quick succession.

05-25-2008, 11:41 AM   #9
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OK, thanks a bunch.

HDR on my dog.
05-25-2008, 02:18 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by boushh Quote
I don't have LightRoom, how would one do this in Pentax Photo Lab?
PPL is quite a pain to use in comparison, so I don't know exactly. It has a sensitivity setting which you could try to reduce alongside with the contrast. Play with the settings as PPL is basically undocumented...

However, it may be that PPL cannot do the equivalent. LR uses a computed restauration of all three color channels from as few as a single unclipped color channel in 12 Bit RAW.

HDR is certainly overkill, even when derived from a single RAW. The contrast from your dog isn't that large after all

Last edited by falconeye; 05-25-2008 at 02:25 PM.
05-25-2008, 04:05 PM   #11
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Boushh, our family also combines Pentaxians and Cocker Spaniels. Good breeds, both!

Your first photo actually looks to be well-exposed; your background appears spot on. Your second photo is also well-exposed, and, because of the shade, the highlights on the white fur are less blown. The black fur blocks up a bit. In all, it looks to me that you are metering well and getting pretty much all your sensor has to offer in tonal range.

To improve on these photos, I agree with other forum members that you'd have to resort to tweaking your highlights or shadows in your RAW conversion, or do a bit of double-processing and combining of the highlight-optimized and shadow-optimized versions via layer masks, or go the multiple exposure bracketed images/HDR route. Perfection of the final result is worth the effort, IMO.
05-25-2008, 04:44 PM   #12
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I'd try a couple of methods, all of which assume you're shooting RAW:

1) Underexposure, as mentioned, then draw out the highlights in Photoshop / whatever.

2) Assuming the light is bright enough, your shutter speed is fast and the dog isn't moving too quickly, autobracket then HDR. Keep your HDR "realistic" and the shots should look nice.

3) Meter off the white while using a flash to get some of the black fur back.
05-25-2008, 07:51 PM   #13
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falconeye and christinelandon, I messed around with PPL and Photoshop and came up with a quicky fix...



I think it's a bit better and with some more serious adjusting I think this is probably the way to go with images I've already taken.

christinelandon: Yay, another Cocker mommy! I wonder how many of us are around on this board.

cputeq: I think your options 1 and 3 would probably work best in this situation, as my dog probably can't sit still well enough for option number 2. He does pretty well with staying, but there is an awful lot of blinking, lip moving, ear moving and sniffing the air, that would probably mess me up.

Thanks everyone, for your awesome suggestions! Now I guess I need to find another excuse to want the K200D...
05-25-2008, 08:11 PM   #14
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If you had a K200D I'd tell you to turn on the expanded dynamic range function.
05-25-2008, 08:47 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by usapatriot Quote
If you had a K200D I'd tell you to turn on the expanded dynamic range function.
Seriously?

Edit: You are serious! I don't know how I missed that in the K200D's description... Has anyone actually used this function? What does it do/How does it work?

Last edited by boushh; 05-25-2008 at 09:07 PM.
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