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12-27-2014, 02:44 PM   #1
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You Know Sometimes My Own Stupidity Just Totally Amazes Me...

I'm supposed to be a smart girl with a high IQ, blazing reading/stunning language ability and all, Ms Pro Photographer, and yet it is so obvious that I can be SO DARNED DUMB sometimes. I have been shooting with a K-30 since JULY of this year, a camera that has 2 wheels. I have previously shot with a K-7, a K-x, and *ist. Do you know that I have only just NOW figured out the true usefulness of the freakin front wheel?

I've been shooting, even for work using mainly the menus, control keys and the back wheel since I got my K-30's seriously. I'm so used to doing that it just seemed kind of redundant to me that the camera even had a 2nd wheel in front. Thought it was more of a convenience thing that not, kind of like the User Program Your Own Settings thing, something else I've never bothered to use. I'm playing with the K5II I suddenly realize that with the second dial and the iso button that I don't have to set the iso in the camera menu every time I need to change it. I can do it on the fly and still change aperture and shutter speed using both dials at the same time.

Well DUH, braniac, so that's why they put TWO wheels on the thing...

Apparently I'm a little slower than I thought....LOL

Okay, fess up what feature on your own cameras did you not really notice/get and hardly ever use until one day you just found yourself doing it and it was "Eureka! I've found it!" I'd like to know because maybe I'm missing doing that too? I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this one because I've actually read the manuals for my cameras several times over, used my cameras pretty extensively, for work, and still I just did not really get the usefulness of the second wheel at all till just now. I was so used to working with less, that I just didn't get "more" and that's SAD when you think about how long I was doing it....

(MK hangs head in shame...)

12-27-2014, 02:51 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I'm supposed to be a smart girl with a high IQ, blazing reading/stunning language ability and all, Ms Pro Photographer, and yet it is so obvious that I can be SO DARNED DUMB sometimes. I have been shooting with a K-30 since JULY of this year, a camera that has 2 wheels. I have previously shot with a K-7, a K-x, and *ist. Do you know that I have only just NOW figured out the true usefulness of the freakin front wheel?

I've been shooting, even for work using mainly the menus, control keys and the back wheel since I got my K-30's seriously. I'm so used to doing that it just seemed kind of redundant to me that the camera even had a 2nd wheel in front. Thought it was more of a convenience thing that not, kind of like the User Program Your Own Settings thing, something else I've never bothered to use. I'm playing with the K5II I suddenly realize that with the second dial and the iso button that I don't have to set the iso in the camera menu every time I need to change it. I can do it on the fly and still change aperture and shutter speed using both dials at the same time.

Well DUH, braniac, so that's why they put TWO wheels on the thing...

Apparently I'm a little slower than I thought....LOL

Okay, fess up what feature on your own cameras did you not really notice/get and hardly ever use until one day you just found yourself doing it and it was "Eureka! I've found it!" I'd like to know because maybe I'm missing doing that too? I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this one because I've actually read the manuals for my cameras several times over, used my cameras pretty extensively, for work, and still I just did not really get the usefulness of the second wheel at all till just now. I was so used to working with less, that I just didn't get "more" and that's SAD when you think about how long I was doing it....

(MK hangs head in shame...)
We didn't hear you say "Pentax DSLR ergonomics sucks" not even once.. We assume you know that already (ah-ha).... there is a real good reason why the k-7/5/3 camera designer put two dials in the camera.... most of the settings can be changed on the fly without taking your eyes off the viewfinder.
12-27-2014, 02:54 PM   #3
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Okay, I have one.

Today, I was playing with my recently-acquired Pentax-M 50/1.4 - testing my MF skills and all. With my MF lenses, I usually use the 'green hexagon' focus confirmation. Until now, I have always had to keep my finger pressed on the back AF button, because the info display in the VF always disappeared after, like, 3 seconds. Gee, thinks me, there must be a better way to do this. So, a quick search on PF and what do I discover - set the 'metering time' to 10 or 30 seconds, and voila, the display stays on for... 10 or 30 seconds. Now I can take longer to adjust the focus without having my shutter finger jammed up against my nose while pressing the button.

Not really a 'dumb moment,' but I did wonder why I couldn't have found this out some time ago.

- Craig

PS. Aren't the dual wheels great?!
12-27-2014, 03:00 PM   #4
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I shot a Barnack Leica for years and years and never realized that you could pull up the rewind knob to rewind the film. One day my grandson was messing around with it and I saw him pull the knob up. I was shocked, I thought he had broken it. But of course he hadn't. He had only figured out in a few minutes of playing what I had never known.

I guess the lesson here is:
a - we really are not as smart as we think we are, and
b - play with your toys once in awhile...or let your grandkids play with them.

12-27-2014, 03:02 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Okay, I have one.

Today, I was playing with my recently-acquired Pentax-M 50/1.4 - testing my MF skills and all. With my MF lenses, I usually use the 'green hexagon' focus confirmation. Until now, I have always had to keep my finger pressed on the back AF button, because the info display in the VF always disappeared after, like, 3 seconds. Gee, thinks me, there must be a better way to do this. So, a quick search on PF and what do I discover - set the 'metering time' to 10 or 30 seconds, and voila, the display stays on for... 10 or 30 seconds. Now I can take longer to adjust the focus without having my shutter finger jammed up against my nose while pressing the button.

Not really a 'dumb moment,' but I did wonder why I couldn't have found this out some time ago.

- Craig

PS. Aren't the dual wheels great?!
Feel sorry for our friends using Canon and lower-end Nikon models.... they have to dig through several layers of menus when I ask them to change ISO (and it is even worse with touch-screens- smudgy fingers).
12-27-2014, 03:03 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
We didn't hear you say "Pentax DSLR ergonomics sucks" not even once.. We assume you know that already (ah-ha).... there is a real good reason why the k-7/5/3 camera designer put two dials in the camera.... most of the settings can be changed on the fly without taking your eyes off the viewfinder.
Well, as to that, I can't quite. I still have to look to see most of the time. It's kind of like touch typing. I can kind of sort of do that, sometimes, but now and again I'm still looking down at my keys just to avoid missed strikes and spelling mistakes too. I did learn typing in school. We had a short course of that, like 4 weeks worth, but I never did learn to just touch type completely. Sometimes I just need to see where the wheel or button is, even on a camera I think I know pretty well. I get the 2nd wheel NOW but I sure didn't before and I really feel stupid about it too. I've been making major work for myself and I just did not have to. Not exactly brilliant of me.

---------- Post added 12-27-14 at 05:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
We didn't hear you say "Pentax DSLR ergonomics sucks" not even once.. We assume you know that already (ah-ha).... there is a real good reason why the k-7/5/3 camera designer put two dials in the camera.... most of the settings can be changed on the fly without taking your eyes off the viewfinder.
Generally speaking I don't think Pentax ergo sucks. Some cameras I like better than others, find easier to hold and use, but overall I think their ergo is better than anyone else's and that is why I choose them. K-5II it's a bit unwieldy for me so far. The K-30's seem to just fit my hands better, but then again maybe if I actually learned to use it PROPERLY I might not have that problem, eh?
12-27-2014, 03:33 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I'm supposed to be a smart girl with a high IQ, blazing reading/stunning language ability and all, Ms Pro Photographer, and yet it is so obvious that I can be SO DARNED DUMB sometimes. I have been shooting with a K-30 since JULY of this year, a camera that has 2 wheels. I have previously shot with a K-7, a K-x, and *ist. Do you know that I have only just NOW figured out the true usefulness of the freakin front wheel?

I've been shooting, even for work using mainly the menus, control keys and the back wheel since I got my K-30's seriously. I'm so used to doing that it just seemed kind of redundant to me that the camera even had a 2nd wheel in front. Thought it was more of a convenience thing that not, kind of like the User Program Your Own Settings thing, something else I've never bothered to use. I'm playing with the K5II I suddenly realize that with the second dial and the iso button that I don't have to set the iso in the camera menu every time I need to change it. I can do it on the fly and still change aperture and shutter speed using both dials at the same time.

Well DUH, braniac, so that's why they put TWO wheels on the thing...

Apparently I'm a little slower than I thought....LOL

Okay, fess up what feature on your own cameras did you not really notice/get and hardly ever use until one day you just found yourself doing it and it was "Eureka! I've found it!" I'd like to know because maybe I'm missing doing that too? I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this one because I've actually read the manuals for my cameras several times over, used my cameras pretty extensively, for work, and still I just did not really get the usefulness of the second wheel at all till just now. I was so used to working with less, that I just didn't get "more" and that's SAD when you think about how long I was doing it....

(MK hangs head in shame...)
Wait, wait You have endless possibilities with theses 2 wheel you know ?

You can configure them to do what ever you like on the different program mode.

For TAv that's obvious. But let's speak of A mode. You can choose to use directly isos for the second wheel. So you start maybe with iso auto. You change the iso to your liking, leaving iso auto mode, of course. No need to use the iso button or whatever. Just turn the wheel. Want to go back iso auto? Just one click on green button.

So in A or Tv mode you can :
- choose if you prefer front or back wheel for the main function
- have nothing for the other wheel
- set iso on the second wheel (and green button go back to iso auto)
- set exposure on the second wheel

You can also reverse the rotation effect if you happen to prefer it.
12-27-2014, 03:50 PM   #8
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Speaking about the two dials and general ergonomics... for Canon and Nikon pro cameras, they have been around for so long, it is difficult to make changes to the buttons and layout (not to annoy existing users). Look at almost all top line models of Canon DSLR, four buttons along top LCD screen, one of them is for ISO changes. Since the only dial is in the front, and the rear wheel (not dial) in way below around rear LCD. Changing ISO on those cameras is not just as easy as "thumb-and-index finger combo".

12-27-2014, 03:54 PM   #9
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I always go back and forth between setting the front dial in Av to ISO or exposure comp. Any arguments either way?
12-27-2014, 04:05 PM   #10
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One question, I have looked for a way, but it seems there isn't the option to change the wheel config? I mean, setting the back wheel to shutter speed and the front to aperture? Sorry, but this is what I was used to...
12-27-2014, 04:09 PM   #11
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Hey, photography is a journey - that's part of the fun ...

@OP

Yeah, those two wheels, even on entry- and mid-level models, remain a true differentiator from many competitors. Yet, as someone who tends to lose himself in these gorgeous OVFs concentrating on composition, I sometimes have to remind myself to actually use that front wheel and fine-tune the shutter speed as to avoid motion blur etc. At any rate, it's a cool feature to have on board, in particular in combination with another truly marvellous Pentax special, Hyper Program mode.

Now, I can certainly relate to that sense of one's own sometimes baffling level of stupidity. Several years ago, on an enchanting evening stroll along Regent's Canal in London, I remember spending something like twenty (?) minutes fumbling around with the K-7 I was shooting then, trying to figure out how to return from manual to Auto ISO: Yes, of course you had to press the ISO and Green buttons, but it took me ages till I remembered what would have been so obvious in terms of Pentax UI logic! Other features that have by now become second nature, like the possibility to select and move around AF points as needed, would take me years to discover and actually try. It was only after upgrading to my K-3 that I would be bold enough to set Custom Image to Natural, and reap the rewards of colour accuracy and differentiation! Or stumble across someone on this forum suggesting that one click in Lightroom, choosing Embedded camera calibration rather than Adobe Standard, could mean so much. Now I'm learning to use back button focus, ... and whatever will be next.

The wonderful thing is that, despite all daftness, sooner or later we learn from our blunders, and hopefully become better photographers in the process. I guess we may as well enjoy our photographic journeys for what they are, and for what they give us, and try to take our mistakes or oversights with a generous dose of humour.

Last edited by Madaboutpix; 12-27-2014 at 04:20 PM. Reason: clearer reference
12-27-2014, 04:13 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Wait, wait You have endless possibilities with theses 2 wheel you know ?

You can configure them to do what ever you like on the different program mode.

For TAv that's obvious. But let's speak of A mode. You can choose to use directly isos for the second wheel. So you start maybe with iso auto. You change the iso to your liking, leaving iso auto mode, of course. No need to use the iso button or whatever. Just turn the wheel. Want to go back iso auto? Just one click on green button.

So in A or Tv mode you can :
- choose if you prefer front or back wheel for the main function
- have nothing for the other wheel
- set iso on the second wheel (and green button go back to iso auto)
- set exposure on the second wheel

You can also reverse the rotation effect if you happen to prefer it.
Thanks for all that, more stuff to learn...

I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to shooting. I like my using my cameras to be as uncomplicated as possible. Usually I've got the camera set in full manual mode. I'm picking an iso and that, using the menus and the back dials to get me there, and that's it. I change what I need to in terms of iso, aperture and shutter speed before I shoot, until I get it right, then I just leave it alone and shoot. I hardly ever change modes once I've started. Aperture and that sometimes, but even that once I get what I want, I keep on doing it. I rarely screw it up too badly but if I do it's usually fixable in post. I barely check for white balance issues half the time because I am so used to doing it after, in Photoshop.

I've always used my DSLR's pretty much the same way I use a film camera. It's just got a memory card instead of film and can also act like a point and shoot, shrug. I do know about the various user modes, but I rarely if ever stray from full manual except to use bulb or just the full auto mode if I'm pressed for time and I need a quick shot. If there is a hawk in the yard for 3 seconds, it's full auto, if not, I'm taking my time and it's full manual.

All those various T/Av type and program modes, I think I use them once in a blue moon maybe. I do like having macro mode and night mode on cameras sometimes, but that's about all I use. Portrait modes, all the Hi def stuff, the filter effects, the video, it might as well not even be on the camera for all I touch it. I just do what I've always done with film. I set the iso, the aperture and the shutter speed, and that's about it. The only time I use an T/Av type mode is when I can't figure out what shutter speed to use and I'm stumped and I want to see what the camera thinks when I'm sure about iso or aperture. Shutter speed is where I mess up if I am going to. Aperture and iso I'm pretty solid. I usually know what settings I need for what situation and I get them right pretty quickly, but now and again shutter speed does trip me up.

It's always worked very well for me but I'm beginning to get that maybe I've been a bit too much of a purist. Like I said, I've been making work for myself and I didn't have to be. It's a bit dense of me, I think. There are definite advantages to some of these "extra" buttons, modes et all. I think I need to look at them a bit more closely before I just shrug and go back to treating my DSLR's like they're just electronic Spotties...

Last edited by magkelly; 12-27-2014 at 04:18 PM.
12-27-2014, 05:38 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
I remember spending something like twenty (?) minutes fumbling around with the K-7 I was shooting then, trying to figure out how to return from manual to Auto ISO: Yes, of course you had to press the ISO and Green buttons, but it took me ages till I remembered what would have been so obvious in terms of Pentax UI logic!
I guess that this is all about the "dumb" things we do, but it is good to know that I'm not the only dumb one as I've done exactly that. I should have figured that there has to be an easy way to do it but I spent way too long fighting that battle until I finally got the manual out.
12-27-2014, 05:47 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flugelbinder Quote
One question, I have looked for a way, but it seems there isn't the option to change the wheel config? I mean, setting the back wheel to shutter speed and the front to aperture? Sorry, but this is what I was used to...
Please look at my post, you can entirely change the wheel config. Just carrefully look at your options an you'll see it.
12-27-2014, 05:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Thanks for all that, more stuff to learn...

I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to shooting. I like my using my cameras to be as uncomplicated as possible. Usually I've got the camera set in full manual mode. I'm picking an iso and that, using the menus and the back dials to get me there, and that's it. I change what I need to in terms of iso, aperture and shutter speed before I shoot, until I get it right, then I just leave it alone and shoot. I hardly ever change modes once I've started. Aperture and that sometimes, but even that once I get what I want, I keep on doing it. I rarely screw it up too badly but if I do it's usually fixable in post. I barely check for white balance issues half the time because I am so used to doing it after, in Photoshop.

I've always used my DSLR's pretty much the same way I use a film camera. It's just got a memory card instead of film and can also act like a point and shoot, shrug. I do know about the various user modes, but I rarely if ever stray from full manual except to use bulb or just the full auto mode if I'm pressed for time and I need a quick shot. If there is a hawk in the yard for 3 seconds, it's full auto, if not, I'm taking my time and it's full manual.

All those various T/Av type and program modes, I think I use them once in a blue moon maybe. I do like having macro mode and night mode on cameras sometimes, but that's about all I use. Portrait modes, all the Hi def stuff, the filter effects, the video, it might as well not even be on the camera for all I touch it. I just do what I've always done with film. I set the iso, the aperture and the shutter speed, and that's about it. The only time I use an T/Av type mode is when I can't figure out what shutter speed to use and I'm stumped and I want to see what the camera thinks when I'm sure about iso or aperture. Shutter speed is where I mess up if I am going to. Aperture and iso I'm pretty solid. I usually know what settings I need for what situation and I get them right pretty quickly, but now and again shutter speed does trip me up.

It's always worked very well for me but I'm beginning to get that maybe I've been a bit too much of a purist. Like I said, I've been making work for myself and I didn't have to be. It's a bit dense of me, I think. There are definite advantages to some of these "extra" buttons, modes et all. I think I need to look at them a bit more closely before I just shrug and go back to treating my DSLR's like they're just electronic Spotties...

yeah one always need to learn. I'd say the "purist" mode is just an excuse.

Take me for example I use Av mode 99% of the time. This is how I feel it, and how I take photos. I want to control the apperture, because I want to control deph of field. I do not so often need high speed or low speed shoots. And most of the time I set the isos too, through the secondary wheel. To be more in "control".

Before i was almost always TAv... But if you don't look enough, you have more risks to get incorrect exposure than with Av.

But for sure some of my shoots would be better if I took time to review the speed. How I want the water to look like in a landscape for example? Woulsn't it better to raise isos a bit to ensure the speed freeze the subject if suddenly there less light ?

We should all take time to try new things and improve. I'am happy I learned to use off center focus points on a regular basis but I have still an issue: the buttons to move it are the same as buttons to change jpeg rendering, set white balance and so own. Functionnality I almost never use because I'am using raw. Still it happen to me all the time that instead of moving the focus point, I mess up the white balance or something. It is anoying !
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