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01-10-2015, 02:10 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeryst Quote
I just want to point something out here that seems to be interpreted incorrectly. Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to. It may only happen once out of a thousand times, but it can happen. I've been in the computer industry professionally since before the first memory cards were available, and have seen it happen many times. It happens a lot less now, but it still happens. Thats why every PC has a little icon that says "Safely eject (Whatever the device is)" whenever any type of auxiliary storage is accessible by the PC.. This pertains to external hard drives and flash drives as well as memory cards.

Having said that. I dont know when and if a camera un-mounts the memory card, so I cant say when or if corruption could occur.
THANK YOU. I tried to make that point like 3 times.

01-10-2015, 02:28 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZoeB Quote
THANK YOU. I tried to make that point like 3 times.
"Optimize for quick removal" is the default setting in Windows. Writes to the card are not cached, but are written immediately, so there never is a time when yanking a card out could lose data unless you yank it out at the exact time that it is actually writing to the card.
01-10-2015, 02:57 AM   #33
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G'day all. There is some difference in opinion, and each person's experiences tends to shape his/her future stance on an issue.
There may well be one truth in the matter, but following it will not guarantee a corrupt-free SD card, nor prevention of dust being attracted to the sensor.
It is generally not a problem to remove the SD card from the slot with the camera not actively writing/reading from it.
It is generally okay to remove a lens from the camera mount while the camera is on but it generally advised to have the camera off whilst mounting a lens.
There are reasons why these are the case, some of which have already been explained, but whatever someone's opinion, the camera is designed to handle cards and lenses coming off the camera when not actively in use.
01-10-2015, 10:43 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by r0ckstarr Quote
Sorry, this is not true. By default Windows sets removable storage devices to allow for quick removal. This means you should be able to just pull the drive from the system so long as it is not in use.
What should happen and what does happen are sometimes not the same thing. Bugs, glitches, corruption, all exist in every PC. Software is written by humans, and not every possible scenario in every possible set of circumstances can be tested. People use hardware and operating systems that are several years old, they do updates to both hardware and software, altering the original parameters of their systems. Not everyone uses the latest hardware and software. Different people download different combinations of third party software that can make extensive changes to the operating system in an infinite number of ways. Drivers are added or updated. By making a broad statement that you can pull the card without any chance of corruption does not apply to the person who is using a five year old desktop PC in the same manner as it does to someone who just bought a brand new laptop.

To anyone that uses a PC, simply ask yourself these questions: Does my PC work exactly the same as it did when I first bought it? Does it ever get slower, or do something unexpected? Has my system ever locked up or crashed unexpectedly? Do I ever have to just reboot it to clear up a problem? Do I ever need to use Task Manager to kill a program that is not behaving correctly? Have I ever run a cleaner program and found registry problems that needed repaired? Has my anti-virus ever found malicious software that has crept into the system? Have I ever downloaded a third party app or software program, and if so, do I trust the designers of that software one hundred percent? Do I trust the designers and manufacturers of my PC one hundred percent? And by one hundred percent, I mean that you would stake your life on it.

Simply put, a PC is a machine, and no machine is one hundred percent infallible. Software is never one hundred percent infallible. I work with new PC's every day, as well as with older ones, and they all develop problems, sometimes right out of the box. Some can be fixed, while others seem to mysteriously reoccur.

If Microsoft was one hundred percent confident, they would no longer include the "Safely Remove Hardware and Eject Media" procedure on the latest versions of Windows. That includes flash drives and memory cards and you will see them in the list of devices to choose from. That is Microsofts insurance policy. It may never be needed, but it's there just in case, because they know there is a slight chance that something can happen.

Choose to believe what you wish, but it occasionally still does happen, and I have personally witnessed the results. The chances are so slight, that it's probably not worth worrying about, but then again, if it's an irreplaceable file, why take that chance when your insurance policy consists of two clicks of the mouse and one second of time? Is anyone on this site so important and/or so busy that they cant afford to spare that one second? The odds of standing in the middle of Times Square and getting mauled by a tiger are probably a billion to one, but you will take little comfort in that huge ratio, if the one happens to be you.

01-11-2015, 08:12 AM   #35
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@mrNewt #13
QuoteQuote:
Your camera is like a computer, you can plug and unplug a memory card into a computer without shutting it down no?
As far as I know (and according to my experience), this is not true.

Microsoft systems do write immediately and completely to removable storage devices as default only since Vista.

Windows 2000, XP and the non-NT OSs may use a delayed write or not, you never know. That's why they had a function to unmount removable devices. With Windows 2000 and XP, there existed registry hacks to force immediate write. But of course, then also the writing would not be cached, making the procedure of storing lots of smaller files slower.

Edit:
Of course, even with older MS systems you did not need to shut off the machine, just force unmount.
This has no relevance for the problem of the OP.
Usually, if you remove the card any writing process will be finished anyway.

Last edited by RKKS08; 01-11-2015 at 08:21 AM.
01-21-2015, 05:30 PM   #36
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Pg. 54 of the K5II/s manual states, "Make sure the camera is turned off before inserting or removing the SD Memory Card." Pg. 56 states, "Turn the camera off before attaching or removing the lens to prevent unexpected lens movement." as well as Step 1 in the process being, "Make sure the camera is turned off." Pg. 59 states, "Always turn the camera off when not in use." Do people not follow this and get away without any harm, sure, but they put it in there for a reason and it doesn't get any clearer than that.
01-21-2015, 06:07 PM   #37
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Oops, that reminds me I had my camera(K-5 II) switched ON since Sunday. There I just turned it off !
01-25-2015, 06:54 AM   #38
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My experience with all this stuff, well, I don't have a lot. Lol

I tend to always leave the camera off when changing lenses. Simply due to the fact that I'm scared (unfounded fear) that the aperture control bit could be damaged.

In regards to removing sd cards. I do it all the time, from phone, camera, laptop etc. I never ever unmount them, and I've never had corrupt data (with sd). early usb, I've had incidents, but that was many years ago.

I think it's down to the direct writing onto the card these days, that saves the data.

I once had my camera on


die me as I was in the middle of clearing the buffer (writing both jpeg and raw). When I got it back on, card was perfectly fine, just lost the pictures that never made it past the buffer.

In short, I wouldn't worry too much

01-25-2015, 07:45 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZoeB Quote
do we have to mud wrestle about who's right?
I think I'm buying a ticket for this...
01-25-2015, 08:38 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chikubi Quote
Pg. 54 of the K5II/s manual states, "Make sure the camera is turned off before inserting or removing the SD Memory Card." Pg. 56 states, "Turn the camera off before attaching or removing the lens to prevent unexpected lens movement." as well as Step 1 in the process being, "Make sure the camera is turned off." Pg. 59 states, "Always turn the camera off when not in use." Do people not follow this and get away without any harm, sure, but they put it in there for a reason and it doesn't get any clearer than that.
All camera WR camera and lens will still have warning that you should not really consider them as WR.

Mobile phone explain they should be turned off while in a car and GPS system explain you should not follow their direction while driving and that anyway they are not responsible if they get you in the wrong place to being with.

In plane, the crew make you feel bad if you have your phone on. Like it would make the plane crash and the devices are only affected while taking off or landing... Who will ever trust that? This is the same in hospitals. But the nurse do use their smartphone anyway...

It is also forbidden to smoke or let the motor on near a gaz station. In case the motor could make the whole thing to explose. Like everybody shut down the motor and push the car to the right position before... And of course any electronic device like a phone have to be shut down like your phone or tablet.

Energy efficiant light bulb also explain you should never use them less than 1 meter from your head, in particular near the head of childrens.

When a woman is pregnant I'am even sure she as the right to breath as it could damage the baby.

This is part of the legal noise we have now everyday. If you really follow it to the letter, you simply don't buy the gear at all. It is much safer.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-25-2015 at 08:44 AM.
01-26-2015, 12:11 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
I think I'm buying a ticket for this...
Seems you're too late, i appear to have scared off my competitor with my wit and correct information.
01-27-2015, 04:17 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZoeB Quote
Seems you're too late
It seems once you get to my age... it's the story of my life, lateness I mean.
01-27-2015, 06:38 AM   #43
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With my K-30, I choose to turn it off for a different reason: It starts up faster than waking up from sleep mode.
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