Leaving the camera switched on...

Timd · 01-07-2015, 01:00 PM

mrNewt, I am glad you support what I have been thinking but perhaps a bit harsh on ZoeB?

Sorry ZoeB, my experience does not support your view that one must always switch the camera off. My K200 had more of a dust issue than my K5. I was a lot more careful with it than I am with my K5. I gather that the sensor is electrostatically charged for a long time after it is switched off, so the dust build up is more to do with the effectiveness of the dust removal shaking than anything I am doing.

This thread reinforces my concern that these issues are not well understood and are not mentioned in the manuals. Perhaps they are ignored in the manual because they will not damage the camera.

ZoeB · 01-07-2015, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

No need to mud wrestle since I know I am right.
However... each person can choose either approach based on their own personal believes and (especially) fears. Fears that most of the times are badly founded.

Anyway, I am not here to argue with anyone, I am just clearing things up for the OP.
Now is up to him to believe what he wants.

Right, everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but only yours is the correct one. I had a history teacher like you once. She hated my guts.

Can't wait for the day that you're wailing about all of the mysterious black spots on your images.

Dear OP, I'm sorry we've hijacked your thread.
In conclusion: it doesn't drain the battery, may or may not effect the amount of dust you accumulate on your sensor, and although it's usually OK, it's a good habit to turn off your camera when taking out SD cards, as modern cameras don't allow you to unmount/eject disks while still turned on (READ THIS BIT CAREFULLY, mrNewt) unlike computers which can safely eject disks without turning off.

mrNewt · 01-07-2015, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Timd

mrNewt, I am glad you support what I have been thinking but perhaps a bit harsh on ZoeB?

Sorry ZoeB, my experience does not support your view that one must always switch the camera off. My K200 had more of a dust issue than my K5. I was a lot more careful with it than I am with my K5. I gather that the sensor is electrostatically charged for a long time after it is switched off, so the dust build up is more to do with the effectiveness of the dust removal shaking than anything I am doing.

This thread reinforces my concern that these issues are not well understood and are not mentioned in the manuals. Perhaps they are ignored in the manual because they will not damage the camera.

My first comment was not directed to ZoeB and my quote on her/his quote of my comments was not meant to be harsh, but rather realistic.
I've meant no offence.

---------- Post added 01-07-15 at 03:07 PM ----------

Originally posted by ZoeB

Right, everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but only yours is the correct one. I had a history teacher like you once. She hated my guts.

Can't wait for the day that you're wailing about all of the mysterious black spots on your images.

Dear OP, I'm sorry we've hijacked your thread.
In conclusion: it doesn't drain the battery, may or may not effect the amount of dust you accumulate on your sensor, and although it's usually OK, it's a good habit to turn off your camera when taking out SD cards, as modern cameras don't allow you to unmount/eject disks while still turned on (READ THIS BIT CAREFULLY, mrNewt) unlike computers which can safely eject disks without turning off.

I think you took my replies a little bit too personally... I apologize for any offence, but that was not what I have intended.
And I'll leave it at that. If you require more clarification as to why I am right, please let me know and I will develop further.

ZoeB · 01-07-2015, 01:09 PM

Guess I must just have an unlucky sensor then. Granted, this is after five years of heavy outdoor use including a continuous 25-day trip on the John Muir trail, which was exceptionally dusty. I think it's easy to keep your sensor cleaner than this, but sensor dust isn't a myth either.

---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 09:10 PM ----------

Originally posted by mrNewt

My first comment was not directed to ZoeB and my quote on her/his quote of my comments was not meant to be harsh, but rather realistic.
I've meant no offence.

---------- Post added 01-07-15 at 03:07 PM ----------

I think you took my replied a little bit too personally... I apologize for any offence, but that was not what I have intended.
And I'll leave it at that. If you require more clarification as to why I am right, please let me know and I will develop further.

Oh, I'm intensely curious.

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mrNewt · 01-07-2015, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by ZoeB

Guess I must just have an unlucky sensor then. Granted, this is after five years of heavy outdoor use including a continuous 25-day trip on the John Muir trail, which was exceptionally dusty. I think it's easy to keep your sensor cleaner than this, but sensor dust isn't a myth either.

---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 09:10 PM ----------

Oh, I'm intensely curious.

That is the result of negligence!
Anyhow, I guess I'll move on now. There is no point in continuing this when you are clearly set for argument rather than understanding.

Steve.Ledger · 01-07-2015, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Timd

I don't buy the dust on sensor bit as it is behind the shutter and mirror: the sensor is only exposed when the mirror is up and the shutter activated.

100% correct.
But.... If there's dust and stuff inside the mirror box from the last time you changed lenses, the the sensor becomes exposed to it when you shoot and everything flaps about stirring up the dust.

ZoeB · 01-07-2015, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

That is the result of negligence!
Anyhow, I guess I'll move on now. There is no point in continuing this when you are clearly set for argument rather than understanding.

Nonono! That wasn't meant as sarcastic, that was meant as actually, I'd really like to know what you have to say about it. It's hard to get the correct intonation when typing.
Maybe I can try to clarify my point of view on the card thing to make this more of a civil discussion:
You mentioned that files can really only become corrupted or damaged if the card is taken out while the camera is still writing. I agree. And we first and foremost want to avoid corrupted files, because they're a pain in the butt to recover. Obviously, the camera can't write files while off, and, at least when it comes to cameras that I've used, will not turn off until it it done writing. Especially when taking long exposures and other kinds of shots that can take a while to write, it is a really good habit to have (I'd like to suggest that it's a good habit to have in general) to make sure that the camera has turned off before ejecting the card, because that way you know for sure that it is done writing. I likened it to ejecting or unmounting a disk on a computer, because then you're also sure that it is done writing, albeit without actually having to turn off the machine.
I hope my point of view is clearer and seems less cantankerous and argumentative.

Also, I wouldn't call that negligence (to me that implies disuse and neglect) so much as heavy use/borderline abuse. It was my first DSLR. I've learned a thing or two.

Timd · 01-08-2015, 04:33 AM

Having no proof at all except for observation and reading between the lines, I think there is very little difference between the camera off and the camera in standby, except for the fact that to wake it in standby is merely a half press of the shutter. My observation is, with the camera OFF, the card write light comes on whenever a card is inserted in the camera (both K200 and K5). I suspect that the camera only truly switches if the buffer has been flushed. So, if a burst of photos has been taken using a slow card, one could conceivably switch the camera off and remove the card before that writing activity has been completed. I won't try that, but I might just try it except for removal of the card (I'm not totally stupid yet).

My analysis of this debate (I have found it very interesting and helpful, thanks) is that one does not need to worry about damaging the camera by doing almost anything with it switched on. However, the following is "due care": do not remove the memory card if the memory write light is on; take due care to reduce the entrance of dust into the camera. While I agree with ZoeB that the sensor attracts dust while it is on, I believe that it retains its charge while off and as it is behind the mirror and shutter, the benefit of switching it off is limited. I do agree that dust management is crucial, but it appears that dust is less of a problem now than with earlier models. This statement is based on my (very limited) experience as well as it being less of a hot topic on this forum than it was in the past!

kshapero · 01-08-2015, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by ZoeB

And also, never ever ever ever take out a memory card with the camera on. That light flashing is the camera telling you that it's registered and mounted the SD card, and if it doesn't do that, it's cause for worry.

I've never been directly warned against changing lenses whilst the camera is on, but i almost always do, as much as anything else to use the startup sensor cleaning to get rid of any dust I may have knocked onto it while switching lenses.

I have taken SD cards out many times while the camera is on. Never a problem. Having said that, I think one should try to avoid this because someday you might pull the card out while it is writing. A definite no no.

r0ckstarr · 01-08-2015, 07:51 PM

If I am carrying a DSLR, it stays switched on the entire time until I am ready to pull the SD and upload. It doesn't matter if it's for 30mins, 12hrs, or a week. I have multiple batteries and keep them charged. It's one less step to worry about when you don't want to miss a shot. I always turn the camera off to change lenses, cards, or batteries though.

Boc · 01-09-2015, 02:07 AM

My K-30 did deplete it's battery when I left it turned on for two days by mistake. Otherwise it's a goog prctice to turn it off for lens change due to the dust the circuits under power might attract to the sensor.

screwdriver222 · 01-09-2015, 04:49 AM

I have a K5 & K3 and I have noticed that opening the SD compartment door powers off the camera or puts it in standby mode. But doing this whilst the card is being written to could corrupt the card.

Anyhow I always switch the camera off when not in use, when changing cards but sometimes, very rarely, I forget to do it when changing lenses.

Regards

Jeff

jeryst · 01-09-2015, 09:26 PM

I just want to point something out here that seems to be interpreted incorrectly. Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to. It may only happen once out of a thousand times, but it can happen. I've been in the computer industry professionally since before the first memory cards were available, and have seen it happen many times. It happens a lot less now, but it still happens. Thats why every PC has a little icon that says "Safely eject (Whatever the device is)" whenever any type of auxiliary storage is accessible by the PC.. This pertains to external hard drives and flash drives as well as memory cards.

Having said that. I dont know when and if a camera un-mounts the memory card, so I cant say when or if corruption could occur.

r0ckstarr · 01-09-2015, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by jeryst

I just want to point something out here that seems to be interpreted incorrectly. Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to.

Sorry, this is not true. By default Windows sets removable storage devices to allow for quick removal. This means you should be able to just pull the drive from the system so long as it is not in use.

**clackers** · 01-10-2015, 01:47 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jeryst

Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to.

This hasn't been the case for several versions of Windows now.

It's still true of hard drives - there's a thread about it.

01-07-2015, 01:05 PM	#18
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by Timd mrNewt, I am glad you support what I have been thinking but perhaps a bit harsh on ZoeB? Sorry ZoeB, my experience does not support your view that one must always switch the camera off. My K200 had more of a dust issue than my K5. I was a lot more careful with it than I am with my K5. I gather that the sensor is electrostatically charged for a long time after it is switched off, so the dust build up is more to do with the effectiveness of the dust removal shaking than anything I am doing. This thread reinforces my concern that these issues are not well understood and are not mentioned in the manuals. Perhaps they are ignored in the manual because they will not damage the camera. My first comment was not directed to ZoeB and my quote on her/his quote of my comments was not meant to be harsh, but rather realistic. I've meant no offence. ---------- Post added 01-07-15 at 03:07 PM ---------- Originally posted by ZoeB Right, everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but only yours is the correct one. I had a history teacher like you once. She hated my guts. Can't wait for the day that you're wailing about all of the mysterious black spots on your images. Dear OP, I'm sorry we've hijacked your thread. In conclusion: it doesn't drain the battery, may or may not effect the amount of dust you accumulate on your sensor, and although it's usually OK, it's a good habit to turn off your camera when taking out SD cards, as modern cameras don't allow you to unmount/eject disks while still turned on (READ THIS BIT CAREFULLY, mrNewt) unlike computers which can safely eject disks without turning off. I think you took my replies a little bit too personally... I apologize for any offence, but that was not what I have intended. And I'll leave it at that. If you require more clarification as to why I am right, please let me know and I will develop further. Last edited by mrNewt; 01-07-2015 at 01:19 PM.

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01-07-2015, 01:00 PM	#16
Timd Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts: 262 Original Poster	mrNewt, I am glad you support what I have been thinking but perhaps a bit harsh on ZoeB? Sorry ZoeB, my experience does not support your view that one must always switch the camera off. My K200 had more of a dust issue than my K5. I was a lot more careful with it than I am with my K5. I gather that the sensor is electrostatically charged for a long time after it is switched off, so the dust build up is more to do with the effectiveness of the dust removal shaking than anything I am doing. This thread reinforces my concern that these issues are not well understood and are not mentioned in the manuals. Perhaps they are ignored in the manual because they will not damage the camera.

01-07-2015, 01:04 PM	#17
ZoeB Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Tromsø, Norway Posts: 886	Originally posted by mrNewt No need to mud wrestle since I know I am right. However... each person can choose either approach based on their own personal believes and (especially) fears. Fears that most of the times are badly founded. Anyway, I am not here to argue with anyone, I am just clearing things up for the OP. Now is up to him to believe what he wants. Right, everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but only yours is the correct one. I had a history teacher like you once. She hated my guts. Can't wait for the day that you're wailing about all of the mysterious black spots on your images. Dear OP, I'm sorry we've hijacked your thread. In conclusion: it doesn't drain the battery, may or may not effect the amount of dust you accumulate on your sensor, and although it's usually OK, it's a good habit to turn off your camera when taking out SD cards, as modern cameras don't allow you to unmount/eject disks while still turned on (READ THIS BIT CAREFULLY, mrNewt) unlike computers which can safely eject disks without turning off.

01-07-2015, 01:12 PM	#20
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by ZoeB Guess I must just have an unlucky sensor then. Granted, this is after five years of heavy outdoor use including a continuous 25-day trip on the John Muir trail, which was exceptionally dusty. I think it's easy to keep your sensor cleaner than this, but sensor dust isn't a myth either. ---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 09:10 PM ---------- Oh, I'm intensely curious. That is the result of negligence! Anyhow, I guess I'll move on now. There is no point in continuing this when you are clearly set for argument rather than understanding.

01-07-2015, 01:26 PM	#21
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Timd I don't buy the dust on sensor bit as it is behind the shutter and mirror: the sensor is only exposed when the mirror is up and the shutter activated. 100% correct. But.... If there's dust and stuff inside the mirror box from the last time you changed lenses, the the sensor becomes exposed to it when you shoot and everything flaps about stirring up the dust.

01-07-2015, 01:28 PM	#22
ZoeB Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Tromsø, Norway Posts: 886	Originally posted by mrNewt That is the result of negligence! Anyhow, I guess I'll move on now. There is no point in continuing this when you are clearly set for argument rather than understanding. Nonono! That wasn't meant as sarcastic, that was meant as actually, I'd really like to know what you have to say about it. It's hard to get the correct intonation when typing. Maybe I can try to clarify my point of view on the card thing to make this more of a civil discussion: You mentioned that files can really only become corrupted or damaged if the card is taken out while the camera is still writing. I agree. And we first and foremost want to avoid corrupted files, because they're a pain in the butt to recover. Obviously, the camera can't write files while off, and, at least when it comes to cameras that I've used, will not turn off until it it done writing. Especially when taking long exposures and other kinds of shots that can take a while to write, it is a really good habit to have (I'd like to suggest that it's a good habit to have in general) to make sure that the camera has turned off before ejecting the card, because that way you know for sure that it is done writing. I likened it to ejecting or unmounting a disk on a computer, because then you're also sure that it is done writing, albeit without actually having to turn off the machine. I hope my point of view is clearer and seems less cantankerous and argumentative. Also, I wouldn't call that negligence (to me that implies disuse and neglect) so much as heavy use/borderline abuse. It was my first DSLR. I've learned a thing or two.

01-08-2015, 04:33 AM	#23
Timd Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts: 262 Original Poster	Having no proof at all except for observation and reading between the lines, I think there is very little difference between the camera off and the camera in standby, except for the fact that to wake it in standby is merely a half press of the shutter. My observation is, with the camera OFF, the card write light comes on whenever a card is inserted in the camera (both K200 and K5). I suspect that the camera only truly switches if the buffer has been flushed. So, if a burst of photos has been taken using a slow card, one could conceivably switch the camera off and remove the card before that writing activity has been completed. I won't try that, but I might just try it except for removal of the card (I'm not totally stupid yet). My analysis of this debate (I have found it very interesting and helpful, thanks) is that one does not need to worry about damaging the camera by doing almost anything with it switched on. However, the following is "due care": do not remove the memory card if the memory write light is on; take due care to reduce the entrance of dust into the camera. While I agree with ZoeB that the sensor attracts dust while it is on, I believe that it retains its charge while off and as it is behind the mirror and shutter, the benefit of switching it off is limited. I do agree that dust management is crucial, but it appears that dust is less of a problem now than with earlier models. This statement is based on my (very limited) experience as well as it being less of a hot topic on this forum than it was in the past!

01-08-2015, 05:27 AM	#24
kshapero Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Florida, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 437	Originally posted by ZoeB And also, never ever ever ever take out a memory card with the camera on. That light flashing is the camera telling you that it's registered and mounted the SD card, and if it doesn't do that, it's cause for worry. I've never been directly warned against changing lenses whilst the camera is on, but i almost always do, as much as anything else to use the startup sensor cleaning to get rid of any dust I may have knocked onto it while switching lenses. I have taken SD cards out many times while the camera is on. Never a problem. Having said that, I think one should try to avoid this because someday you might pull the card out while it is writing. A definite no no.

01-08-2015, 07:51 PM	#25
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	If I am carrying a DSLR, it stays switched on the entire time until I am ready to pull the SD and upload. It doesn't matter if it's for 30mins, 12hrs, or a week. I have multiple batteries and keep them charged. It's one less step to worry about when you don't want to miss a shot. I always turn the camera off to change lenses, cards, or batteries though.

01-09-2015, 02:07 AM	#26
Boc New Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Cluj Photos: Albums Posts: 22	My K-30 did deplete it's battery when I left it turned on for two days by mistake. Otherwise it's a goog prctice to turn it off for lens change due to the dust the circuits under power might attract to the sensor.

01-09-2015, 04:49 AM	#27
screwdriver222 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Plymouth Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 139	I have a K5 & K3 and I have noticed that opening the SD compartment door powers off the camera or puts it in standby mode. But doing this whilst the card is being written to could corrupt the card. Anyhow I always switch the camera off when not in use, when changing cards but sometimes, very rarely, I forget to do it when changing lenses. Regards Jeff

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01-09-2015, 09:26 PM	#28
jeryst Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western PA Posts: 136	I just want to point something out here that seems to be interpreted incorrectly. Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to. It may only happen once out of a thousand times, but it can happen. I've been in the computer industry professionally since before the first memory cards were available, and have seen it happen many times. It happens a lot less now, but it still happens. Thats why every PC has a little icon that says "Safely eject (Whatever the device is)" whenever any type of auxiliary storage is accessible by the PC.. This pertains to external hard drives and flash drives as well as memory cards. Having said that. I dont know when and if a camera un-mounts the memory card, so I cant say when or if corruption could occur.

01-09-2015, 10:24 PM	#29
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	Originally posted by jeryst I just want to point something out here that seems to be interpreted incorrectly. Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to. Sorry, this is not true. By default Windows sets removable storage devices to allow for quick removal. This means you should be able to just pull the drive from the system so long as it is not in use.

01-10-2015, 01:47 AM - 1 Like	#30
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jeryst Although you can remove an SD card from a PC while the PC is on, doing so without un-mounting the SD card can cause corruption to data on the card, even if it is not being written to. This hasn't been the case for several versions of Windows now. It's still true of hard drives - there's a thread about it.