Of Interest to Linux Users - PEF vs DNG

arkav · 01-18-2015, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by K57XR

For casual photography with the ideal shooting condition and camera setup, my K5 produces excellent jpeg images that I don't even bother with raw files. I use raw processors in general for special images only – mainly for printing or salvaging photos.

After having trouble getting satisfactory results with "problem" images using a particular RAW converter, I thought I'd try working on non-problematic images in order to come up with a baseline profile that I could use as
a starting point for the images where I really needed to use the RAW converter. I was using the camera JPGs as a "control" to evaluate how good a job I was doing. In addition to the bundled software, I've been using ACR via PSE, and I recently added
Rawtherapee to stable of converters I've been experimenting with. My goal is to settle on one converter and develop a reasonably fast workflow, as opposed to spending hours working on individual images.

I've usually convinced myself that converter X was my best bet, and then I would convert a series of photos using it. Afterwards, I'd go back and compare the results to the camera JPGs. Most of the time, just a minor tweak to the original camera JPG would
give a better looking result ( overall ) than what I got from the converter. With considerable effort, I might better the original JPG in one aspect ( eg. better local contrast ), but it was invariably at the expense of some other aspect ( eg. more noise ). There was always a tradeoff - whereas the camera JPG was often the best compromise, and very difficult to match using any of the RAW converters I tried ( the exception being PDCU, but the UI leaves something to be desired, and it doesn't work for my K30 files in any case ).

In frustration, I'd switch to a different converter, do another series, and come to the same conclusion. With certain problem images, I'd sometimes get better results with one converter vs another, and certainly some converters had advantages over
others in terms of workflow.

My personal preference is to NOT work with the "importation/cataloguing" type workflow, so I've confined my testing to Raw converters that I can invoke on a specific file that I'm looking at in my file browser ( FastStone ). I'd like to settle on one converter that I can use for RAW images from both my cameras, rather than have to switch converters all the time ( a frustrating aspect of using the bundled converters ). I've worked
with PSE/ACR, PDCU3 ( for K200D files ), and Silkypix 3 ( for my K30 files ) and more recently, Rawtherapee ( though I did work with RT and Lightroom back in 2009 when I first got my K200D ).

K57XR · 01-18-2015, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by arkav

I'd like to settle on one converter that I can use for RAW images from both my cameras, rather than have to switch converters all the time ( a frustrating aspect of using the bundled converters ). .

Same here. PDCU4 was bundled with the K-x and used that for a while before settling on PSE/ACR for all raw processing (K-x / K5 / K-01), and is the very reason why I keep Win-XP in dual boot with Linux. Of course, there is Wine but I prefer working with PSE directly. I was planning to add Lightroom but never got around to it. Rawtherapee, Gimp-Ufraw seem to do the job for me on Linux - so far.

anemone · 01-19-2015, 11:57 PM

Arch Linux here too. I use Darktable It can work with *ist DL and k100D PEFs. I Have been using K-3 so far in JPG mode, but when I have better budget, I'll give it bigger cards and start using raw formats again. If it is PEF or DNG, I don't know yet depends on which work better.

hoanpham · 01-21-2015, 02:51 PM

I use Ubuntu LTS as base, VirtualBox as middle layer and different OS on top

florinlib · 01-22-2015, 01:59 AM

I use Darktable and Gimp, the advantage of Darktable over Rawtherapee - speed and zone tweaking

tromboads · 01-22-2015, 04:52 AM

Slackware here

Yarp DNG, ufraw and gimp has me setteled

Viv LA gnu Linux

arkav · 01-22-2015, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by florinlib

I use Darktable and Gimp, the advantage of Darktable over Rawtherapee - speed and zone tweaking

I'm using Rawtherapee on a Windows Desktop. Darktable looks interesting - I have it installed on a Linux laptop, but haven't played with it much ( don't really use the laptop for photo processing ).

It looks as though Darktable works on the "import whole folders" model, which I dislike. Is it possible to use Darktable in the "edit this image and only this image" mode?

Jan178 · 01-22-2015, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by arkav

It looks as though Darktable works on the "import whole folders" model, which I dislike. Is it possible to use Darktable in the "edit this image and only this image" mode?

That´s how i usually use it. Right-click the thumbnail and open in Darktable. I´ve had crashing problems when trying to import folders, my hardware is quite outdated and i´ve tweaked my Ubuntu to the breaking point...

.
That´s fine me though, since i process images individuallu anyway.

Oh, right... DNG over PEF, no other particular reason but easier compatibility, maybe. Darkroom and GIMP.

gord lucas · 01-22-2015, 01:14 PM

I'll experiment with those, but it looks like UFRaw will do what I want - I don't need to import a folder, my preference is to work on each image individually.

It's interesting to see that Linux users are really an independent and creative bunch that always comes up with a solution that works for them!

dcrusoe · 01-22-2015, 01:37 PM

does anyone use digikam? any thoughts on it?

I have it under KDE Dev Platform 4.11.5 on SUSE by default

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

cfraz · 01-22-2015, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by dcrusoe

does anyone use digikam? any thoughts on it?

I have it under KDE Dev Platform 4.11.5 on SUSE by default

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

I used Digikam for its image management capabilities which I think are quite nice. I ran RawTherapee for image processing though as it was better than Digikam in my view.

Last year I switched to DarkTable for both file management and processing. Much better in many regards and the only downside is a more cumbersome image tagging facility.

dcrusoe · 01-23-2015, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by cfraz

I used Digikam for its image management capabilities which I think are quite nice. I ran RawTherapee for image processing though as it was better than Digikam in my view.

Last year I switched to DarkTable for both file management and processing. Much better in many regards and the only downside is a more cumbersome image tagging facility.

Thanks Cfraz, I'll look into them!

The Squirrel Mafia · 01-23-2015, 11:12 AM

I triple boot Windows 7, Debian 7.7, & Fedora 21. I use GIMP with UFRAW or Darktable or Lightzone. I typically use Debian since it's more stable. I just play around with Fedora, since it's the complete opposite of Debian.

http://www.lightzoneproject.org/

^ Open source raw editing. It doesn't work for the latest version of Fedora. It seems like they're going to release a newer version later on, though.

This is also available for Windows for those that are too poor for Light Room. Kinda like me. Haha!

Finchj · 01-25-2015, 01:46 PM

Darktable has been excellent so far. One of the best open source programs I've used.

I've been using Darktable since I got my K-7 and switched to RAW four years ago. It has come quite a way. All my photographs are edited using it. I don't like any program making auto libraries, so I just have a very simple file system.

Year / Country / State or Region or City (if I'm traveling) / Month (ex, 1. January) / Date + Event (ex, 25. Forest walk & polypores) / Exports

I just drag and drop the folders from my SD card into the appropriate folder on my hard drive, rename with the event, and leave them until I want to edit them. When I'm ready to edit, I just drag the folder down to the darktable icon in my dock (I use OS X, tried Linux for a long while but never got the fans running properly).

Darktable simply opens that one folder and nothing else. I never have any issues with it this way.

Darktable offers lens correction for just about all the Pentax lenses now. Even some peripheral illumination updates too. Profiled denoise with multiple options for each unique sensor. There are many ways to accomplish the same thing, which is pretty cool.

What else... well, it just works!

I did trial LR & Photoshop for a month last year while working on a project and have to say, Photoshop is outstanding. Especially the panorama stitching. I am considering moving to Adobe for the integration between those two programs alone. GIMP just doesn't make it as easy as PS. Still, darktable is so good that I have a hard to justifying the monthly outlay.

brewmaster15 · 01-26-2015, 06:09 AM

New to the forum here...Its really great to see some Linux users here. I've used many distros on my boxes here. I like Mint the best currently, though in all honesty, I will take any of the Linux Distros over Windows. I use Gimp here...find it does well by me.

I think milewis said it best....
I think of Linux as I do Pentax. I wish both got more use and respect.

Looking forward to learning from and sharing with you all.
Al

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01-18-2015, 06:16 AM	#16
arkav Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 366	Originally posted by K57XR For casual photography with the ideal shooting condition and camera setup, my K5 produces excellent jpeg images that I don't even bother with raw files. I use raw processors in general for special images only – mainly for printing or salvaging photos. After having trouble getting satisfactory results with "problem" images using a particular RAW converter, I thought I'd try working on non-problematic images in order to come up with a baseline profile that I could use as a starting point for the images where I really needed to use the RAW converter. I was using the camera JPGs as a "control" to evaluate how good a job I was doing. In addition to the bundled software, I've been using ACR via PSE, and I recently added Rawtherapee to stable of converters I've been experimenting with. My goal is to settle on one converter and develop a reasonably fast workflow, as opposed to spending hours working on individual images. I've usually convinced myself that converter X was my best bet, and then I would convert a series of photos using it. Afterwards, I'd go back and compare the results to the camera JPGs. Most of the time, just a minor tweak to the original camera JPG would give a better looking result ( overall ) than what I got from the converter. With considerable effort, I might better the original JPG in one aspect ( eg. better local contrast ), but it was invariably at the expense of some other aspect ( eg. more noise ). There was always a tradeoff - whereas the camera JPG was often the best compromise, and very difficult to match using any of the RAW converters I tried ( the exception being PDCU, but the UI leaves something to be desired, and it doesn't work for my K30 files in any case ). In frustration, I'd switch to a different converter, do another series, and come to the same conclusion. With certain problem images, I'd sometimes get better results with one converter vs another, and certainly some converters had advantages over others in terms of workflow. My personal preference is to NOT work with the "importation/cataloguing" type workflow, so I've confined my testing to Raw converters that I can invoke on a specific file that I'm looking at in my file browser ( FastStone ). I'd like to settle on one converter that I can use for RAW images from both my cameras, rather than have to switch converters all the time ( a frustrating aspect of using the bundled converters ). I've worked with PSE/ACR, PDCU3 ( for K200D files ), and Silkypix 3 ( for my K30 files ) and more recently, Rawtherapee ( though I did work with RT and Lightroom back in 2009 when I first got my K200D ).

01-18-2015, 10:19 AM	#17
K57XR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 830	Originally posted by arkav I'd like to settle on one converter that I can use for RAW images from both my cameras, rather than have to switch converters all the time ( a frustrating aspect of using the bundled converters ). . Same here. PDCU4 was bundled with the K-x and used that for a while before settling on PSE/ACR for all raw processing (K-x / K5 / K-01), and is the very reason why I keep Win-XP in dual boot with Linux. Of course, there is Wine but I prefer working with PSE directly. I was planning to add Lightroom but never got around to it. Rawtherapee, Gimp-Ufraw seem to do the job for me on Linux - so far.

01-19-2015, 11:57 PM	#18
anemone Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 165	Arch Linux here too. I use Darktable It can work with *ist DL and k100D PEFs. I Have been using K-3 so far in JPG mode, but when I have better budget, I'll give it bigger cards and start using raw formats again. If it is PEF or DNG, I don't know yet depends on which work better.

01-21-2015, 02:51 PM	#19
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	I use Ubuntu LTS as base, VirtualBox as middle layer and different OS on top

01-22-2015, 01:59 AM	#20
florinlib Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 88	I use Darktable and Gimp, the advantage of Darktable over Rawtherapee - speed and zone tweaking

01-22-2015, 04:52 AM	#21
tromboads Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Melbs Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,240	Slackware here Yarp DNG, ufraw and gimp has me setteled Viv LA gnu Linux

01-22-2015, 06:41 AM	#22
arkav Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 366	Originally posted by florinlib I use Darktable and Gimp, the advantage of Darktable over Rawtherapee - speed and zone tweaking I'm using Rawtherapee on a Windows Desktop. Darktable looks interesting - I have it installed on a Linux laptop, but haven't played with it much ( don't really use the laptop for photo processing ). It looks as though Darktable works on the "import whole folders" model, which I dislike. Is it possible to use Darktable in the "edit this image and only this image" mode?

01-22-2015, 08:04 AM	#23
Jan178 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Rovaniemi, Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 963	Originally posted by arkav It looks as though Darktable works on the "import whole folders" model, which I dislike. Is it possible to use Darktable in the "edit this image and only this image" mode? That´s how i usually use it. Right-click the thumbnail and open in Darktable. I´ve had crashing problems when trying to import folders, my hardware is quite outdated and i´ve tweaked my Ubuntu to the breaking point... . That´s fine me though, since i process images individuallu anyway. Oh, right... DNG over PEF, no other particular reason but easier compatibility, maybe. Darkroom and GIMP.

01-22-2015, 01:14 PM	#24
gord lucas Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 38 Original Poster	I'll experiment with those, but it looks like UFRaw will do what I want - I don't need to import a folder, my preference is to work on each image individually. It's interesting to see that Linux users are really an independent and creative bunch that always comes up with a solution that works for them!

01-22-2015, 01:37 PM	#25
dcrusoe New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 20	does anyone use digikam? any thoughts on it? I have it under KDE Dev Platform 4.11.5 on SUSE by default p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

01-22-2015, 05:38 PM	#26
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by dcrusoe does anyone use digikam? any thoughts on it? I have it under KDE Dev Platform 4.11.5 on SUSE by default p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } I used Digikam for its image management capabilities which I think are quite nice. I ran RawTherapee for image processing though as it was better than Digikam in my view. Last year I switched to DarkTable for both file management and processing. Much better in many regards and the only downside is a more cumbersome image tagging facility.

01-23-2015, 10:18 AM	#27
dcrusoe New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 20	Originally posted by cfraz I used Digikam for its image management capabilities which I think are quite nice. I ran RawTherapee for image processing though as it was better than Digikam in my view. Last year I switched to DarkTable for both file management and processing. Much better in many regards and the only downside is a more cumbersome image tagging facility. Thanks Cfraz, I'll look into them!

01-23-2015, 11:12 AM	#28
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,054	I triple boot Windows 7, Debian 7.7, & Fedora 21. I use GIMP with UFRAW or Darktable or Lightzone. I typically use Debian since it's more stable. I just play around with Fedora, since it's the complete opposite of Debian. http://www.lightzoneproject.org/ ^ Open source raw editing. It doesn't work for the latest version of Fedora. It seems like they're going to release a newer version later on, though. This is also available for Windows for those that are too poor for Light Room. Kinda like me. Haha!

01-25-2015, 01:46 PM	#29
Finchj Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 142	Darktable has been excellent so far. One of the best open source programs I've used. I've been using Darktable since I got my K-7 and switched to RAW four years ago. It has come quite a way. All my photographs are edited using it. I don't like any program making auto libraries, so I just have a very simple file system. Year / Country / State or Region or City (if I'm traveling) / Month (ex, 1. January) / Date + Event (ex, 25. Forest walk & polypores) / Exports I just drag and drop the folders from my SD card into the appropriate folder on my hard drive, rename with the event, and leave them until I want to edit them. When I'm ready to edit, I just drag the folder down to the darktable icon in my dock (I use OS X, tried Linux for a long while but never got the fans running properly). Darktable simply opens that one folder and nothing else. I never have any issues with it this way. Darktable offers lens correction for just about all the Pentax lenses now. Even some peripheral illumination updates too. Profiled denoise with multiple options for each unique sensor. There are many ways to accomplish the same thing, which is pretty cool. What else... well, it just works! I did trial LR & Photoshop for a month last year while working on a project and have to say, Photoshop is outstanding. Especially the panorama stitching. I am considering moving to Adobe for the integration between those two programs alone. GIMP just doesn't make it as easy as PS. Still, darktable is so good that I have a hard to justifying the monthly outlay.

01-26-2015, 06:09 AM	#30
brewmaster15 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: CT Posts: 1,860	New to the forum here...Its really great to see some Linux users here. I've used many distros on my boxes here. I like Mint the best currently, though in all honesty, I will take any of the Linux Distros over Windows. I use Gimp here...find it does well by me. I think milewis said it best.... I think of Linux as I do Pentax. I wish both got more use and respect. Looking forward to learning from and sharing with you all. Al