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01-21-2015, 09:44 AM   #46
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For the Made in Canada/Carbon footprint part, might I suggest a used made in Canada Leica? That'll tide you over until Pentax relocates.

01-21-2015, 10:00 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote


For the Made in Canada/Carbon footprint part, might I suggest a used made in Canada Leica? That'll tide you over until Pentax relocates.
I'll settle for Canada annexing a small part of Vietnam.
01-21-2015, 03:13 PM   #48
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My dream camera would be:

1) Big-ass prism with huge optical view finder - I like to see what I'm shooting
2) Full-frame 31.84MP - I'm exact
3) No screen on the back - real photographers (i.e. the "pure" kind) don't need no instant-histograms, preview modes, peaking, or any of that nonsense. We spray and pray, and cry later
4) No AF - who needs AF when you got fingers to twist a ring? If it came out fussy it's because I planned it that way and I'm pure like that - I don't really care what I'm shooting, just how I'm shooting it
5) Single shot only - as a pure photographer I cannot possibly imagine running into any situation where you need to shoot multiple shots in a row to capture/frame moving objects. Well, I don't use AF either so that probably explains it...
6) Grip custom-molded to the contour of my right hand, when I hold it it should feel effortless and like a natural extension of my fingernails, the camera should be virtually weightless and unobtrusive
7) Weather sealed for underwater and outer space use - the camera should be rugged and substantial, I should be able to use it to bludgeon a grizzly if needed
8) Handcrafted by big bosomed virgins using only organic and non-GMO parts

Or I guess I'll settle for a Leica...
01-21-2015, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yassarian Quote
My dream camera would be:

1) Big-ass prism with huge optical view finder - I like to see what I'm shooting
2) Full-frame 31.84MP - I'm exact
3) No screen on the back - real photographers (i.e. the "pure" kind) don't need no instant-histograms, preview modes, peaking, or any of that nonsense. We spray and pray, and cry later
4) No AF - who needs AF when you got fingers to twist a ring? If it came out fussy it's because I planned it that way and I'm pure like that - I don't really care what I'm shooting, just how I'm shooting it
5) Single shot only - as a pure photographer I cannot possibly imagine running into any situation where you need to shoot multiple shots in a row to capture/frame moving objects. Well, I don't use AF either so that probably explains it...
6) Grip custom-molded to the contour of my right hand, when I hold it it should feel effortless and like a natural extension of my fingernails, the camera should be virtually weightless and unobtrusive
7) Weather sealed for underwater and outer space use - the camera should be rugged and substantial, I should be able to use it to bludgeon a grizzly if needed
8) Handcrafted by big bosomed virgins using only organic and non-GMO parts
I want one exactly like yours. Except for one thing: I want 31.86MP, so I guess I won't buy yours.

01-21-2015, 04:42 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I want one exactly like yours. Except for one thing: I want 31.86MP, so I guess I won't buy yours.
Well I can't imagine anyone needing more than 31.84MP, you must not be a PURE PHOTOGRAPHER. This camera that I designed is for the purest of the pure only, it's definitely not for some hacks like yourself...
01-21-2015, 06:34 PM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Barker Quote
Not quite.

I want:

* match-needle APS-C DSLR
* centre-weighted metering and spot metering only
* modern, ergonomic grip
* available battery/portrait grip
* Dual SD slots with % full readout
* control wheels with built-in setting displays for aperture, shutter and ISO, and clicking/detent ability to feel 1/3 stop adjustments
* minimum 14 MP
* minimum 14 Ev Dynamic Range, 3200 ISO low light, 25 bit colour score on DXOMark
* DNG only
* single shot mode only. No bracketing, no continuous shooting
* 1.0x equivalent magnification, 120% coverage viewfinder (using a magnifying prism, and a mirror that reflects more than what the APS-C sensor can see. Some vignetting in the viewfinder outside the 100% range with some APS-C lenses)
* shock, dust, moisture and temperature resistant from -30 to +50 degrees Celsius
* Shake Reduction and sensor cleaning function
* sleep function
* cold boot in less than 50 ms
* power off in less than 50 ms
* less than 50 ms shutter lag
* subdued, modern styling
* comes with case made of natural materials resistant to mould and fungus
* non-slip strap included, works with lenses weighing up to 1 kg, fits in case
* the kit lens is the 31mm f1.8 but without the "Limited" marking, smaller, without autofocus
* standard tripod interface as usual
* made in Canada, in a carbon-neutral facility

To the people who always say "it's just as expensive, you still need a big CPU, etc": here is what would not be required:
* large buffer
* sensor with live view capability or fast readout
* autofocus sensor (since I did not ask for a focus dot)
* sophisticated mirror (since there is no autofocus sensor below, and no fps requirement)
* dim screen (since there is no autofocus)
* plugs or jacks or hotshoes for flash or HDMI or USB
* electronic displays such as top or rear LCD
* JPEG engine, white balance controls, contrast controls, on-board defishing or filleting, etc
* speaker for sound effects
* delete, play, or arrow buttons, since there is no review
* exposure compensation, since there is a needle
* flash
* interoperability with any devices other than lenses and SD cards
* complicated CPU
* software bundle
* user manual
* being the "digital equivalent" of anything in particular

To the people who always say "get a Leica": this has the following advantages over a Leica:
* it is not a piece of jewellery, nor is it a showpiece, nor does it masterfully balance form and function
* the average person can learn to use the viewfinder to compose and focus very easily and accurately
* it does not have a $1000 red dot
* it works with Pentax lenses :-P
* did you read the feature set?
A sensor that doesn't have live view and is from the last 4 years or so does not exist. It would be a custom job. Likewise a CPU that lacks a JPEG engine. No large buffer... Memory is very cheap these days.

And you have lost me as potential customer, no bracketing means I can't use it for work.

The big problem is that all these minimalst cameras have a certain wish list, and they are all different. The only solution to make a camera that appeals to more than a hand full of people is to make one that does as much as possible. That way you can mass produce the camera and only have to develop one camera, instead of 20. The price will be much lower in the end. A hand built, custom made unique car will cost more than a mass produced Golf that is packed full of features. And cameras are much more integrated. Leaving away sockets and ports only makes a tiny price difference.

Btw., you say leaving away features such as video saves money, cause they can use a simpler sensor, software, processor... Doesn't the Df use only hardware that supports video? At this point leaving away such a feature costs more than it saves.

The 645z has no really useful video mode, the quality is (understandably) not there. The sensor is too slow for that. Yet Pentax implemented video, even though owners may not care. But it was free.
01-21-2015, 07:58 PM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yassarian Quote
Well I can't imagine anyone needing more than 31.84MP, you must not be a PURE PHOTOGRAPHER. This camera that I designed is for the purest of the pure only, it's definitely not for some hacks like yourself...
Sorry but your wrong. It must be 31.92384, which is the cube root of the number of hairs on Oskar Barnack's head when he woke up the morning he invented the Leica. Your number, 31.84, is the cube root of the number of hairs on Oskar Barnack's ass that very same morning. Don't feel too bad though, as you made a typical newbie error.

Those of us who know the one true size will forgive you in a decade or two.
01-21-2015, 08:20 PM   #53
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I know that you don't want anyone to see "Get a Leica", but here are the facts.

1. The Leica Digital camera, is about as close as you can get to a digital film camera except for...
2. Oh yeah, Leica. The Leica M60 is a digital M camera that no longer needs a display screen on the back.
3. And let us not forget that the only place you can buy a new black and white only digital camera is...Leica, again.

Yeah, they are a bit expensive and are out of a lot of people's reach, and they don't take Pentax glass, but they are proof that it can be done if the company wants to do it bad enough.

Of course you can do the alternative. Take a Pentax *ist DL2, or any other digital *ist. Break the focus motor. Superglue the Mode Dial on Manual. Install a Super Tak 50/1.4 using a Pentax adapter. Go out and enjoy yourself.

01-21-2015, 08:25 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
buy a Leica.
Agreed
01-21-2015, 08:41 PM   #55
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In the mechanical age, electronics were expensive and mechanical parts cheaper. To make a basic camera with just what's needed, it made sense to leave out the electronics and the camera you ended up with was the K1000. In the digital age, the electronics are cheap and without electronics, there can be no camera at all. The mechanical elements are the luxury. If you follow the same philosophy as the K1000 in the modern age, it's the mechanical parts that are redundant and that path leads you to a simplified camera that looks like - shock, horror - the K-01!
01-21-2015, 08:57 PM   #56
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Cameras come and go... I want a D-FA* 16-200 f/2 limited WR, with DC focus motor (in a D-FA 100 WR macro form/weight factor).

Make it so No. 1.
01-22-2015, 01:35 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Barker Quote
I'll settle for Canada annexing a small part of Vietnam.
Uh oh. We tried that some forty years ago - not a happy experience. Besides, it'll be tough to find those big bosomed virgins to handcraft the cameras in Vietnam as @ChristianRock suggested. Better to relocate to Canada.

Last edited by eyeswideshut; 01-22-2015 at 01:48 AM.
01-22-2015, 04:05 AM - 1 Like   #58
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I think a lot of people have the impression that if a camera company disables certain features (live view, video, etc) that it would some how drop the price of the camera. Many of these things are present on all modern sensors whether or not the software implementation is done. The cost savings would be small, but the decrease in sales with having a lackluster featured camera would actually drive the cost of the camera higher.

If people don't like features, then don't use them. I seldom shoot video, but it doesn't bother me that it is there in the camera for those who do.
01-22-2015, 05:49 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think a lot of people have the impression that if a camera company disables certain features (live view, video, etc) that it would some how drop the price of the camera. Many of these things are present on all modern sensors whether or not the software implementation is done. The cost savings would be small, but the decrease in sales with having a lackluster featured camera would actually drive the cost of the camera higher.

If people don't like features, then don't use them. I seldom shoot video, but it doesn't bother me that it is there in the camera for those who do.
You're right... However, a camera does get cheaper , and possibly smaller, when certain features are not included. The price (and size) difference between DSLRs and MILCS with the same sensors already shows that replacing a mirror, mirror mechanism, focussing screen, prism, VF optics, and all the manual human labour that goes into calibrating that all, and replacing it with an electronic viewfinder, that doesn't even need calibrating , results in much cheaper and smaller cameras. Whilst delivering the same, some say more, image quality.

- For a lot of people, having no SR is no issue. Especially if your older, 2nd body, has it.
- Same goes for having no back LCD. If you have an EVF anyway, why not?
- Some people, especially a lot of Pentaxians with heaps of legacy glass, couldn't care less about AF. Ok, now this one might be more expensive. It would be something REALLY special, with an aperture coupler, stylish body and the fact that they won't be selling any lenses to their owners.
01-22-2015, 06:16 AM   #60
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I started off with a camera that was what would now be called 'minimalist', a Zenit, what is the attraction in going back to owning a camera that doesn't do all the 'stuff' a modern camera can do?
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