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05-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #16
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K200D would be my choice.
The K10D while a good camera is not without it's issues, notably BF/FF focusing issues with wider lenses. The K200D is newer and comes with the kit lens. You'll need a lens to start with anyway. Plus it is smaller and lighter and image quality wise is no different than the K10D.

05-28-2008, 06:51 PM   #17
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Two pictures I took today.

I noticed that a lot of my pictures were darker than they should be, but with gimp i just changed the exposure a bit and it looked better.



05-28-2008, 08:09 PM   #18
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K200D
  • More features
  • Improved electronics
  • AL II kit lens available
  • Less expensive in your comparison
  • Newer model so will likely be supported for longer than the K10D
Both are great cameras, but the 200 just has a more complete feature set and improved performance in a newer model - for less money.

Side note, after a while you won't be using the picture & scene modes much.
05-29-2008, 04:43 AM   #19
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Handle them both, and go for the one that puts a smile on your dial.
I have the K100D and love it, but when I handled the K10D it just felt like it belongs in my hands.

Just a side note on the processing, AFAIK the bundled software does not do batch processing. You can take some of the hassle out of development by scripting DCRaw on *nix or Windows. It's also a great way to give an old PC new life.

05-29-2008, 05:28 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by TangentReq Quote
So i ended up buying the K10d today, and took some pictures. It was a display unit but they said it has been behind glass the whole time. I get it home and after taking some pictures I see that it has actually been used before as I found the pic count to be 150 and pics on the data card are of people outside of the store....sooo not sure if I am going to return it or not.

In anycase...I took some pictures today and would like to post them but I am having a hard time doing it smoothly. the .raw files actually appear to be .pef files, and i installed UFraw on gimp to edit them and save them but can't quite figure it out or the best way to do it. Any help is appreciated!
Of course, the camera may not have been out of the store, but the memory card could have been used in another camera that had been taken outside of the store. Then again, it may have been a return item, where someone bought it, decided it was too complicated and brought it back. I used to work in a camera store, and that wasn't terribly unusual. If someone brought it back because it was actually malfunctioning, we sent it back to the manufacturer.

If it's really important to you, obviously you should take it back, but I'm pretty sure my K10D was a display unit, and I don't care. I got a good deal on it, it came with the full Pentax USA warranty, and I kind of figured it like this - somebody in the store has tested it a little for me, so I know it should all be working okay! Certainly the pics you've posted bear out that it seems to working pretty well...

OT: Is that your backyard? From what I can see of it, it looks fantastic!
05-29-2008, 08:51 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by brothereye Quote
Of course, the camera may not have been out of the store, but the memory card could have been used in another camera that had been taken outside of the store. Then again, it may have been a return item, where someone bought it, decided it was too complicated and brought it back. I used to work in a camera store, and that wasn't terribly unusual. If someone brought it back because it was actually malfunctioning, we sent it back to the manufacturer.

If it's really important to you, obviously you should take it back, but I'm pretty sure my K10D was a display unit, and I don't care. I got a good deal on it, it came with the full Pentax USA warranty, and I kind of figured it like this - somebody in the store has tested it a little for me, so I know it should all be working okay! Certainly the pics you've posted bear out that it seems to working pretty well...

OT: Is that your backyard? From what I can see of it, it looks fantastic!
Yeah those pics are from my parents backyward which I am staying at for a few days. My dad has this thing for Koy ponds. Its another great day so maybe i'll give the k10d one more day heh.

any thoughts on the pics? With raw files it seems that it is so easy to take a bad picture that is not exposed correctly, and then just fix it up a bit.
05-29-2008, 10:26 AM   #22
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I'm surprised by all the K200D advices. I think the K10D is overall a more advanced camera even if the electronics and firmware are older. I think the buffer for example is much bigger on the K10D. And you don't need to dig into the menus for most of the settings. If you upgrade later to a K20D you can still keep your battery grip.

So TangentReq, you made the right decision IMHO ;-)

With RAW it's easier to correct underexposed pictures because RAW is 12 bits while JPEG are 8 bits and discard fine informations.
05-29-2008, 11:02 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by TangentReq Quote
Yeah those pics are from my parents backyward which I am staying at for a few days. My dad has this thing for Koy ponds. Its another great day so maybe i'll give the k10d one more day heh.

any thoughts on the pics? With raw files it seems that it is so easy to take a bad picture that is not exposed correctly, and then just fix it up a bit.
When I first got into digital, I got some used Canon gear, and I shot JPEGs. And life was good. Most of time.
Sometimes I needed to fix things in them (color-balance usually, sometimes exposure), and depending on what needed adjustment, sometimes it seemed difficult to make the changes. Once I figured out (actually I had to read it somewhere) what you have already discovered (shoot RAW, convert and fix anything that needs it), I was much better off. I can't say I never save to .JPEG now, but when I do it's usually for the web or newsletters or something, not for enlarging and framing. RAW does take more time and patience, and I'm still learning new techniques and tools, but that's part of the fun (for me at least).

05-29-2008, 12:21 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by brothereye Quote
RAW does take more time and patience, and I'm still learning new techniques and tools, but that's part of the fun (for me at least).

Patience =
Time =


I have patience to learn these new programs and I quite often do pretty well using them... but time is THE biggest problem... I just dont know how you guys can shoot tons of pictures and work on them every single shooting session...
05-29-2008, 12:27 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by TangentReq Quote
So i ended up buying the K10d today, and took some pictures. It was a display unit but they said it has been behind glass the whole time. I get it home and after taking some pictures I see that it has actually been used before as I found the pic count to be 150 and pics on the data card are of people outside of the store....sooo not sure if I am going to return it or not.

In anycase...I took some pictures today and would like to post them but I am having a hard time doing it smoothly. the .raw files actually appear to be .pef files, and i installed UFraw on gimp to edit them and save them but can't quite figure it out or the best way to do it. Any help is appreciated!
As I said before I think you made the right chose - especially if the price was right! It is a camera with a distinct pro-feeling that will serve you for a long time.

I wouldnīt be too worried about the Shutter count - as far as I can see it my K10D was absolutely new, but showed a Shutter count of 192 - I donīt know why........
Maybe they test every camera by fireing the shutter a number of times before shipping. My K100D Super also showed around 100 exposures.

Has anybody else experience of this?

I use Lightroom for all of my RAW editing and I find it easy to learn and very powerful.

Kjell

Last edited by fullkoll; 05-29-2008 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Adding software tips
05-29-2008, 05:49 PM   #26
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THanks for the thoughts guys. I have only just started photography as a hobby and I can see how the front wheel helps a lot. I also don't think that the size difference is that big, although I have yet to take the k10d on a hike so that could change.

I have a question about a picture i took today. I've been just pointing it all around trying to figure out how things react and such and I am not sure how to fix things like this.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2273/2535353786_35e774b497.jpg

How do I fix the harsh light from the window without making everything else too dark.

Also is it possible that a camera would constantly be making pictures dark. I doubt it but since I've never used a camera like this before just want to make sure its me lol.

Thanks.
05-30-2008, 05:21 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by TangentReq Quote
THanks for the thoughts guys. I have only just started photography as a hobby and I can see how the front wheel helps a lot. I also don't think that the size difference is that big, although I have yet to take the k10d on a hike so that could change.

I have a question about a picture i took today. I've been just pointing it all around trying to figure out how things react and such and I am not sure how to fix things like this.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2273/2535353786_35e774b497.jpg

How do I fix the harsh light from the window without making everything else too dark.

Also is it possible that a camera would constantly be making pictures dark. I doubt it but since I've never used a camera like this before just want to make sure its me lol.

Thanks.

Fixing the bright area would be easiest by using fill flash during the exposure. It would help even out the level of brightness between the darker room area and the bright window. It might not completely even it out, but it would be much closer.

As far as the pictures being too dark, if you're using a M mode, you can under-expose(intentionally or unintentionally). It could also be the metering mode, since you can choose between spot, center and evaluative, and these different modes can often meter fairly different exposures for the same scene. You might also check that AE compensation is dialed to 0.0 and not to a negative(-) number. This might seem pretty obvious to check, but I've set compensation before and forgotten to zero it out when I was done. Another possibility is the lens. I know it sounds weird but I have a lens that underexposes by about 1/2 to 2/3 stop, no matter what the metering mode is, on every camera body I've tried it on. To confirm it, I set the exposure manually for a scene using a lens that seemed to performed well, made an exposure, and then switched lenses to the suspect lens and made an exposure using the exact same manual settings. Nothing changed except the lens, but the second exposure was siginificantly darker when I reviewed it in the camera, and on my computer. Tried the same experiment with a different camera body(K100D) with the same result. After some experimentation, I figured out that over-exposing by 1/2 to 1 stop, resulted in a more pleasing exposure with this lens. And of course, it is possible that it's the camera. While my K10D has been great, it's a modern production line product, and no matter how good the QC is, every company makes a mistake now and then. I'm not saying whether it's the camera or not, since I can't take a look at it myself, and before I guessed that it was a camera malfunction, I would check out the settings and the lens. Usually, but not always, if the camera is exposing and making images that are ok other than being a little too dark, it's not a camera malfunction, per se, although the camera settings might need to be adjusted(AE comp, meter mode, etc.)

Last edited by brothereye; 05-30-2008 at 05:39 AM.
05-30-2008, 05:23 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by TangentReq Quote
THanks for the thoughts guys. I have only just started photography as a hobby and I can see how the front wheel helps a lot. I also don't think that the size difference is that big, although I have yet to take the k10d on a hike so that could change.

I have a question about a picture i took today. I've been just pointing it all around trying to figure out how things react and such and I am not sure how to fix things like this.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2273/2535353786_35e774b497.jpg

How do I fix the harsh light from the window without making everything else too dark.

Also is it possible that a camera would constantly be making pictures dark. I doubt it but since I've never used a camera like this before just want to make sure its me lol.

Thanks.
DLSRs have a limited dynamic range - that is they might have difficulties coping with extreme darks and lights. I think your camera did a pretty good job here.

First of all: shoot RAW to get more info about the dark and light parts of the image.
I presume you used the Multi-segment metering mode and thatīs a good start in pictures like this one.
You could try to use bracketing here - take 3 pictures in a row with different exposure and then choose the one you prefer.

You could also try to fix the darks and lights in you software and as said before you have a better chance of fixing it in RAW than in JPG.

It has been reported that K10D underexposures a bit......... and that is better than overexposure. If parts of your image is underexposed chances are you can recover them.


Kjell
05-30-2008, 05:37 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by BBear Quote
Patience =
Time =


I have patience to learn these new programs and I quite often do pretty well using them... but time is THE biggest problem... I just dont know how you guys can shoot tons of pictures and work on them every single shooting session...
I can't, I usually edit the images and pick out a few that are the most promising, then work on those. Sometimes I work on none, because I didn't make anything worth working on.
05-30-2008, 07:20 AM   #30
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My k200d Comes Through In The Clutch

Hey All,
Ive always had problems photographing dark skinned subjects in difficult lighting situations unless I use Photoshop or some other photo editing tools. The picture below was taken on a cloudy morning with fill in flash... PP involved was only resizing and nothing else was done to it. This topic was about the K10/K200d and IMHO, The k200d has got to be the best bargain one can find right now and with the current $100 rebate, it makes it even better, wish I would have bought mine later.

Barry

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