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01-23-2015, 01:25 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I was wondering when someone would say this. If the brand of gear is a serious problem, then you just switch. It shouldn't be a big deal. But this whole thing seems kinda "iffy" to me. 99% of the public doesn't know a fraction about cameras that most folks on this board know, so I'm finding it hard to believe that couples would have such strict standards. If it were me, for the time being, I think that how I answered questions about my gear would depend upon what was asked. If someone asked, "What brand of camera do you use?"...then I would tell them I use a Pentax. However, if they asked, "What kind of camera do you use?"...I'd baffle 'em with BS. I'd say something like, "I'm glad you asked. We use an APS-C camera with a 16.3 megapixel CMOS sensor that has a top shutter speed of 1/8000th of a second, can shoot as fast as 7 frames per second, and is usable in dim light up to an ISO of 12,000. We shoot exclusively in RAW format, but will provide low-resolution JPEG images as your proofs." If that's not enough, you can talk about the range of your zoom, how many elements it has...in how may groups...the number of low-dispersion elements in it...widest aperture, crop-factor, etc... Before long, they'll be saying, "Okay, okay...just shut up about it! I'm sure it's fine."
That would be perfect if you worked reciprocity failure into it somewhere.

As in, these Pentax cameras are specifically designed to avoid reciprocity failure, a technical failing documented to affect Canon and Nikon cameras.

Come on, it's not lying, just leaving out a few relevant facts.

01-23-2015, 01:26 PM   #62
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When it comes to a $10,000,000 'Wealth Event' (they're more common than you might think)

There are people in the world who will pass over a truly brilliant, math-nerd, empathetic, insightful, process oriented, credentialed, client-centered financial advisory group, who wear average clothes and drive Honda's (and invest the savings)

- but they'll hire some dude in a $2,500 suit driving a $120,000 car because, "He must be doing well."

Later they'll call the math-nerd and ask if he can 'fix it.'

Oh, dear, I'm so sorry - we're not accepting new engagements right now . . . . . .
01-23-2015, 01:28 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
You need to walk away from such clients because even if you convince them to go with your wife as the wedding photog, they may still find excuses later to bite you later because they are skeptical about the equipment you used.
As I understand it, picky clients are the nature of the wedding game?

The client on a product or fashion shoot is going to be like a commissioning editor - a fellow professional who understands you get the best out of an artist by letting them do things their way.

But for a wedding, the couple (and more likely, just one of the couple) think that because they're spending a lot of money by their own standards they should overrule the judgment of the florist, caterers, dressmaker, DJ, venue decorators, etc.

At my step son's wedding, the bride even clashed a little with the first shooter on the day and asked for the backup tog to be the one to cover the bridal party preparations. :-)
01-23-2015, 01:59 PM   #64
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I don't know. My wife shoots weddings and her biggest thing is to make certain that her style of photography fits well with the couple that she is shooting. If there is a disconnect there then it just won't work. Honestly, people don't ask her anything about her gear. They have seen her photos and appreciate what she brings to the table. And it isn't about gear, it is about someone who has vision and knows how to get the shots you need and the shots you want to remember your wedding day by.

There are plenty of folks with full frame cameras and 70-200 f2.8 VR II lenses that struggle with that.

01-23-2015, 02:11 PM   #65
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Possible compromise: buy a Nikon or Canon basic setup and shoot both Pentax and Canikon. Then your wife can honestly say that she uses Canikon as well as Pentax but that all of her keeper shots are captured by Pentax. Or not say anything about that. Does a wedding customer ever look at EXIF data after the event? But every wedding tog needs a backup camera and maybe even a second tog, so the OP can fill that position.
01-23-2015, 02:29 PM   #66
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I've never had a mountain or animal complain about my Pentax gear.

The best response I've heard about when someone was questioning the gear was "You're not paying for a camera, you're paying for a photographer. The camera is just a tool." If they don't understand that, then as otehrs have said, it might be better to let them go. In my business (engineering) I have occasionally had people come in looking to hire me that I knew right away were going to be a problem. I've never said no to anyone, but if I know they're going to be difficult I simply quote a price I know they won't pay and never look back (and if they WILL pay it, I guess I can put up with them). Sometimes the extra money ain't worth the hassle.
01-23-2015, 02:38 PM   #67
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It does seem that if someone is asking about the brand of camera, that they may not be leaning towards hiring you anyway. I find it hard to believe that someone would really like what you have and then use camera to dismiss it.

Wedding photographs really are about the style of photography not the equipment used.

Interesting story for me as a client. My wife and I looked at four photographers for our wedding. The portfolio was what mattered. Two of the photographers shot in a street style of photography that looked nice, but we dismissed because it lacked something. Another shot almost exclusively traditional (posed) wedding photography, which was ok, but his images were quite grainy. The one we selected shot a mixture of street style and traditional portrait photography. Added to that the images were just gorgeous, even when I "pixel" peeped at them. Equipment never came up, but when we had our first engagement photos done with the chosen photographer (a sort of try before we buy option she provided), it turned out she shot medium-format film (Hasselblad). She then explained that when she said that we would get all the original photographs, it would be all the negatives. I felt like we had scored despite my wife question whether a film photographer was a good idea. I pointed out that we liked her images, so what did it matter what was used to get them (which convinced her we made the right choice).

Fast forward a few years later, and I ran into our photographer who had switched to digital but stayed with medium format. I didn't ask details, but it sounded like she got a digital back for her camera.

Ultimately, style was all that really mattered and final product. People may not like something and not know it, so they ask about brand or equipment. Also think the mass use of Canikon cameras leads people to think they must be best.
01-23-2015, 02:39 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
As I understand it, picky clients are the nature of the wedding game?
Picky about the camera used? Something most of them can't even determine from the pictures. But there are people on the forum who do use FF equipment for the DoF thing. Shallower DoF for a given f-stop.

01-23-2015, 02:43 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by jrpower10 Quote

..snipped..

I've never said no to anyone, but if I know they're going to be difficult I simply quote a price I know they won't pay and never look back (and if they WILL pay it, I guess I can put up with them). Sometimes the extra money ain't worth the hassle.
Good move and strategy...sometimes, customer with potential for troubles in the future are not worth getting (life is too short to worry about them).
I am an event photographer and occasionally do some weddings... Based on my photos compare with others who shoot the same events with another brand, I know some are convinced that Pentax is a premium brand.
01-23-2015, 02:48 PM   #70
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If it's about your wife's enjoyment of taking wedding photos and frustration with her clients' insistence on Canikon, I would try some of the great responses suggested by some in this thread. If that doesn't work, get Canikon stuff for your wife and call it a day.

I worked at an upscale hotel for over nine years, and the number of people who pay more for their photographer than I and my wife paid for our whole wedding astounds me. More money than sense, if you ask me. A friend shot ours for $100, and the lack of "pro" quality has in no way affected our marriage or our love for each other. Way OT and to philosophical for this thread, I know, but weddings just make people crazy...
01-23-2015, 02:51 PM   #71
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jrpower10 - That's a good application of the 80/20 rule - to weed out the business that gives you nothing but trouble and time wasted, and keep the business that is easy to deal with and maximizes your time therefore your gain.

QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
I worked at an upscale hotel for over nine years, and the number of people who pay more for their photographer than I and my wife paid for our whole wedding astounds me. More money than sense, if you ask me. A friend shot ours for $100, and the lack of "pro" quality has in no way affected our marriage or our love for each other. Way OT and to philosophical for this thread, I know, but weddings just make people crazy...
Let me just say that you are lucky and that your wife is a rare jewel

Most women want the expensive party and the super dreamy pictures. At least mine did. Twice - she wasn't happy with the way the wedding turned out so just a few years later we had to do a "vows renewal"...

Last edited by ChristianRock; 01-23-2015 at 02:57 PM.
01-23-2015, 03:18 PM   #72
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Maybe when someone asks which camera you use, ask them which they think based on the portfolio.
01-23-2015, 03:26 PM   #73
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The customers perception, wrongly or rightly is what counts when it is they who are paying the bill.

The several weddings that were lost, would have already paid for the Canikon gear that was required to get the job done.
01-23-2015, 03:42 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
The customers perception, wrongly or rightly is what counts when it is they who are paying the bill.

The several weddings that were lost, would have already paid for the Canikon gear that was required to get the job done.
You are assuming that the gear question wasn't an excuse and that they wouldn't have raised some other kind of objection to your work.
01-23-2015, 03:45 PM   #75
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Client conditioning is an important part of wedding photography. A good starting point is an open and honest relationship and an expectation that the client needs to choose what is right for them (not necessarily you) your photographic gear is of key importance and you need the ability to sell its benefits while also admitting any weakness. You need to let clients know there is no perfect camera and all have tradeoffs.

I would start off by explaining how all new cameras have significantly better IQ than the best from only a few years ago, yet they could still take great photos then(you could add that pentax and nikon use the same sony chips in many cases) The most important thing that a wedding photographer needs is familiarity, redundancy, and durability. I would then talk about your choice of gear, whether it be you years of use, your preference of colour rendering, features such as weather sealing or lens choices, and last but not least the trade off between sensor size, weight and performance. You should tell them that a wedding day is a marathon for a photographer, and a big huge heavy camera may take marginally better photos but a exhausted photographer will not. You could mention how many pros are moving over to fuji for this reason. I would also mention the strength of FF, if you need to shoot in a dimly lit chapel without flash photography then I would not hesitate to recommend that they should find someone with a FF and fast glass.

The most important thing is to convince the clients that you are acting in their best interest (by being honest). That will gain you more clients than changing camera brands. It will also increase your proportion of sensible clients!
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