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01-23-2015, 03:57 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
You are assuming that the gear question wasn't an excuse and that they wouldn't have raised some other kind of objection to your work.
Exactly my thought, excuses are often shallow like that one.

01-23-2015, 04:24 PM   #77
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I know of professional photograpers that have ditched DSLRs all together & shoot with mirrorless cameras.

Jason Lanier Photography

^ This dude uses a Sony A6000 at times. That is a small APS-C mirrorless camera. The shots he can pull out of it are amazing. Obviously he also uses some of the higher end Sony stuff, but still, his skills are impeccable. No CaNikon stuff for him. I'm pretty sure he can wow the crowd with a point & shoot or an Andriod / iPhone too.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what is used to get the end result, as long as it comes out with quality, but I guess there are brand whores for everything.

The underdog doesn't get much love at times. Oh well. Their loss.
01-23-2015, 04:39 PM - 1 Like   #78
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My thought is a bit different: if the client cares so much about the brand of camera when there's a photo portfolio of work in front of them, they obviously know nothing about cameras but think they do. They want to know about equipment they probably don't understand to begin with. Someone who could actually get information about your equipment doesn't need to ask about it because they can look at your results and see that whatever you have is sufficient.

At the very least, their concern for microdetails means they're likely to but into everything and tell you how to do your job. Problem is that people who do that also expect their way to work, and when it doesn't, they get mad. "Why do the photos look like X?" "Uh, you told me to shoot the tables by standing on the chairs, so they look like they were taken from a helicopter...I did exactly what you asked me to."

While the loss of income is never good, avoiding awful clients is not a bad thing because these are the people who are most likely to drag you into Judge Judy over their unreasonable expectations and demands. I get that clients want good results for their money, but...that's what the portfolio is for. What if you told the client you shoot with a Leica? Hasselblad MF? Bet they would say, "Oh, not Canon. Sorry!" even though those cameras would wipe the floor with anything Canon makes.

---------- Post added 01-23-15 at 05:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
They want cheap, but they also want a photographer who uses the absolute best (in their mind) equipment. You can't make money catering to cheap people, unless you're as big as Walmart.
It's pretty much the story of life, especially with anything electronics and dating. People want top performance for the lowest price. That's fine to look for it but people actually expect to find it. Somehow, a huge chunk of the population has come to expect that everyone will just bend over backwards and provide quality far out of touch with what that person is willing to pay because...they're such a great person? Online dating sites have plenty of women who are only interested in romantic guys taller than 6'2", making $100k, with muscles and a face like Brad Pitt's...you know, a top 1% guy. Trouble is that she's not even a top 50% woman in the looks department--and given her demands, she's not so charming either.

Friend of mine bought a $100 point and shoot (no exaggeration). Then he took pictures....and complained that they didn't look as good as my SLR's photos. This guy was notoriously unreasonable like that but his thinking is not atypical. Person buys HDTV for $800...is disappointed it doesn't like the $7k Sony sets at Best Buy. Doesn't understand why.

Last edited by MadMathMind; 01-23-2015 at 04:53 PM.
01-23-2015, 04:51 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really think your wife just needs to have a canned line for those situations. Telling the client that Pentax is an unusual brand, but that colors and results you have found to be phenomenal and out pace those of Canon/Nikon cameras. You could even pull some crappy photos off of the interwebs shot with Canon and Nikon cameras to demonstrate the difference...

I think so too.. but I wouldn't bend the truth by showing purposely worse images shot from another brand. I would, however, have to question anyone that questioned what brand of camera i'm using. Not aggressively.. but smooth operator style.. hear them out and then show them the abilities of what your camera can do. If they still balk.. show them the comparison spec sheets and DxO ratings.. Sell them on your camera and your abilities with your camera.

That is if you don't want to be selective about clients.. Maybe even create a webpage showing your work with the Pentax system you have and the charts and stuff aforementioned. That way they know in advance and don't even have to bother asking.. its on your company page for all to see.

Of course this could be TERRIBLE advice since I've never received even a penny for my photography...

01-23-2015, 06:07 PM   #80
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Another thought is that the questions are prompted by the competition. I suspect they are shopping around, and are told to ask if the others shoot with 'Professional Gear'. What I would do is explain in extreme detail the technical process that will be followed when setting up the lighting, the positioning, use of helpers, all the various places like the ceremony, meal etc. how it will be done, the preparation taken beforehand, the process in detail of finishing post, etc. I find that after 6 sentences, make sure you use technical language and explain in extreme detail, the subject will be changed. Or bring out your favourite lens that you use and describe in detail the wonderfulness of it, how it captures color, makes faces look nice, again in detail. They will stop asking.

No need to hide information. If they ask for it, give it to them. Their eyes will glaze over. They want to make sure you know what you are doing. People don't know, don't understand, but they know a few words and will use them. Sum it all up by saying that my job is to make sure you get this, and all the technical details involved are my responsibility. This is the end result, and this is what I need you to do for me to get them.
01-23-2015, 06:24 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think so too.. but I wouldn't bend the truth by showing purposely worse images shot from another brand. I would, however, have to question anyone that questioned what brand of camera i'm using. Not aggressively.. but smooth operator style.. hear them out and then show them the abilities of what your camera can do. If they still balk.. show them the comparison spec sheets and DxO ratings.. Sell them on your camera and your abilities with your camera.
Trying to sell them on the merits of the camera is an exercise in futility. If they knew anything, they wouldn't have asked this question to begin with--and you can't convince someone who's understanding is based on "I read on the internet that..." or "Freddie says that..."

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Another thought is that the questions are prompted by the competition. I suspect they are shopping around, and are told to ask if the others shoot with 'Professional Gear'. What I would do is explain in extreme detail the technical process that will be followed when setting up the lighting, the positioning, use of helpers, all the various places like the ceremony, meal etc. how it will be done, the preparation taken beforehand, the process in detail of finishing post, etc. I find that after 6 sentences, make sure you use technical language and explain in extreme detail, the subject will be changed. Or bring out your favourite lens that you use and describe in detail the wonderfulness of it, how it captures color, makes faces look nice, again in detail. They will stop asking.
I think you've nailed it, up to the point of taking out the lens. That's likely to undo everything you've done up to that point, since it's either showing off or looks defensive.

Assuming your potential clients aren't lugheads who insist on a brand because...they heard "the pros use this" somewhere, the question "What camera do you use?" may be code for "I want to make sure you are well-prepared and capable." But people don't know what questions to ask, so they ask the only thing they can understand...what camera is it? They don't even understand that but it's all they can relate to.

I think answering you begin with saying, "I understand you are concerned whether I am using professional equipment and tools." Trying to give them a lecture on why brand doesn't matter looks defensive and they won't understand a lick of it anyway. Describing the process you use to take the photos and then the process AFTER the event is the best way to go. As mentioned, helpers, off-camera flashes, etc. and that you touch up defects and blemishes are things they can understand. Even better is to ask them what kind of environment the wedding will happen in. Indoors with bad light? Shadows? Harsh light? You can then describe how you handle all the potential problems.

If they still insist on knowing the brand after that...then they aren't listening and concerned with appearances and reputation than actual process. Then it's probably not bad to let them walk out the door...
01-23-2015, 06:24 PM   #82
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First they going to tell her what to use, then where to shoot and what not...
The best way to make a good business in photography imho is to shoot with something you are comfortable with and that let you focus on inspiration..
01-23-2015, 07:22 PM - 1 Like   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by j2photos Quote
I know there are a million and one threads about this and I am sure everyone is sick of reading them. I frankly never thought I would find myself here (and especially not today, because I just bought 4 more lenses today!) But I get home and my wife is livid(she is a wedding photographer). She states that she was turned down for another wedding because the customers didnt like the fact that she shot with Pentax. She has a portfolio and shows every customer how great the photos she takes are. But it is the 5th time in the last year that she has lost a job because the customer frowns on the fact that she isnt shooting Canon or Nikon. So she says tonight we are switching to one of the two, either a 6D or a D750. So here I am with lightroom open editing pictures of every piece of Pentax equipment I own and I am feeling very remorseful. I truly in my gut feel like I am making a bad choice, like I am getting a divorce with my beloved Pentax. I can honestly say I am VERY dissapointed with the lack of a Pentax FF camera and I have been waiting on pins and needles for 6 years. But THIS TIME i feel like it is really around the corner. I have asked the wife at least 6 times if she is REALLY sure she wants to do this. Each time she responds with a yes, but is there something I can say to convince her otherwise? I understand her frustration, but at the same time we have always been very proud Pentax shooters and also have been proud to be different than the norm. Part of me wants to be a mean husband and put my foot down and tell her this isnt happening (her income from weddings has only paid for 2 or 3 lenses) 75% of the equipment I own I have paid for out of my hard earned money. I am fairly sad right now and not sure what to think or feel about this.
What percentage of her business a year is she losing because of these customers?

How much would the new gear cost her?

How long would it take for her to get as proficient with the new gear as she is with the old gear?

If she is losing only a small percentage of business to these types of customers, then her time and money might be better spent on just finding other customers that aren't so silly.

If she is losing a large percentage of customers, then, yes, she should probably consider a change if the math in terms of time and money works out.

01-24-2015, 01:49 PM   #84
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I don't shoot professionally, but when people go to me and ask why not nikon/canon? I point out to them exactly how stupid they are for asking such a question. Blunt indeed.

On the other hand, when people see that LCD panel light up, they think it's a pro can by default. People are silly. Just a shame some are as thick as these clients
01-24-2015, 01:59 PM   #85
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Lenses also seem to have something to do with it. I think that pentax's compact lenses with small filter sizes look less 'pro' than say Canon's L monstrosities. I might even venture to say that people think of my compact primes as less pro looking than my friend's sigma 18-200, just because it's bigger and physically zooms out farther.
01-24-2015, 03:25 PM   #86
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I hate to suggest it, but it's a very real possibility that the gear was just an excuse to turn her down, and there was something else about your wife's portfolio that didn't click with the prospective clients. It could have been the photos not having that subject isolation "pop" that full frame provides, or her style of post-processing, or her preferred type of portraiture (lifestyle vs. formal), etc. The inexpensive way to find out is to seek honest constructive criticism from others. The expensive way is to switch systems and see if that actually boosts business. Personally, I'd do both because while CC is always beneficial, it sounds like your wife isn't going to be happy until she gets that Canikon.
01-24-2015, 03:26 PM   #87
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The solution is to mount a DA* 16-50 with hood, and make sure you have a grip on the camera. Impresses the less than knowledgeable.
01-24-2015, 04:33 PM   #88
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How do clients know what you shoot with? Are you mentioning it? If they ask out of the blue, ask them how much they know about camera brands. Show them images (from pros, if you like) who shoot with Pentax, and I assume you can show them a portfolio of what you have shot. Tell them that you will not make suggestions about their wedding details if they don't make suggestions about your gear.
01-24-2015, 06:37 PM - 2 Likes   #89
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Here's another suggestion as to how to respond to clients with a canikon fixation -- she could say something like: "Well, Canon and Nikon are good cameras; in fact I used to use one [after all who hasn't at least once?]]. But when I started doing wedding photography in a serious way and began charging clients, I felt like I needed to offer them the best possible images for the money, and experts know that Pentax excels at [[use a bunch of technical jargon like 'dynamic range, image stabilization, control of chromatic aberration, moire reduction, etc.']]

If she lays it on thick enough, the customer might even ask her to put a little Pentax watermark on all her output.
01-24-2015, 06:52 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by soliony Quote
Here's another suggestion as to how to respond to clients with a canikon fixation -- she could say something like: "Well, Canon and Nikon are good cameras; in fact I used to use one [after all who hasn't at least once?]]. But when I started doing wedding photography in a serious way and began charging clients, I felt like I needed to offer them the best possible images for the money, and experts know that Pentax excels at [[use a bunch of technical jargon like 'dynamic range, image stabilization, control of chromatic aberration, moire reduction, etc.']]

If she lays it on thick enough, the customer might even ask her to put a little Pentax watermark on all her output.
I like this. Counter ignorance with respectful expertise.
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