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01-27-2015, 01:27 PM   #1
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jpg vs raw camera development settings

I love my K5iis, but of late I reset the camera and have forgotten a few things.
Do any of the in camera options such as " Bright, Natural, Contrast, Contrast highlight, have any affect on Raw images ?
I was not having any issue with white blowouts till after the reset and I am wondering what I had it set to
Senior moment here, sorry.
I've had this Camera almost a year and I am still finding out settings and things this camera can do.
White birds are hellish in the Florida sun, would a custom white balancing help ?

Thanks all

DeWolf

01-27-2015, 01:34 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
I love my K5iis, but of late I reset the camera and have forgotten a few things.
Do any of the in camera options such as " Bright, Natural, Contrast, Contrast highlight, have any affect on Raw images ?
I was not having any issue with white blowouts till after the reset and I am wondering what I had it set to
Senior moment here, sorry.
I've had this Camera almost a year and I am still finding out settings and things this camera can do.
White birds are hellish in the Florida sun, would a custom white balancing help ?

Thanks all

DeWolf
all the camera options have NO effect on RAW output, those are for in camera JPEG processing only.

custom white balance is not the answer to white bird over exposure, there are a few things to try instead:

1- change metering to spot metering - sensor wants to make everything gray and if the white bird is against a dark background, camera will account for dark background and over expose. this true for any extreme exposure situation. spot metering will limit sensor to white bird and will expose for white bird
2- dial down EV comp to maybe -0.7 which will intentionally underexpose everything, but this runs contrary to the ETTR (expose to the right) doctrine of digital sensors
3- shoot manual and rely on your histogram. I use this for my landscape shots, but will also work for more stationary objects. shoot multiple shots, manually adjusting exposure (f stop or shutter speed) to prevent highlight clipping
01-27-2015, 01:59 PM   #3
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I have done 1 and 2, EV Comp to the left 2 spaces, as far as histogram I can not for the life of me get it in the viewfinder where its needed.
Live view is impossible in the sun here I cant see a thing.
Thanks for the confirmation on the in camera settings not affecting Raw files. I set raw type to DNG which seems acceptable in PS4 and adobeRGB colourspace.
Il have to read the histogram part of the manual again, maybe i missed something.

DeWolf
01-27-2015, 02:14 PM   #4
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If I have a white bird on a very sunny day sometimes I switch to spot metering and meter only in this case bird but I am using K-3 now and it have I think it is called matrix metering where can meter differently parts of the image (Ricoh technology) as far as I know.
In case of spot metering my background might be underexposed but it is easy fix with brush adjustment in PP.

Hope this helps.

01-27-2015, 02:53 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
I have done 1 and 2, EV Comp to the left 2 spaces, as far as histogram I can not for the life of me get it in the viewfinder where its needed.
Live view is impossible in the sun here I cant see a thing.
Thanks for the confirmation on the in camera settings not affecting Raw files. I set raw type to DNG which seems acceptable in PS4 and adobeRGB colourspace.
Il have to read the histogram part of the manual again, maybe i missed something.

DeWolf
do you have AE locked to AF point selected? this way the spot metering would actually use the AF point. if its not locked it uses the center regardless of focus point
on the K5iis, I believe you get the histogram by pressing the info button a few times after pulling up a pick for review in the LCD. it's been a while since I had one so not 100% sure.
01-27-2015, 03:29 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
I love my K5iis, but of late I reset the camera and have forgotten a few things.
Do any of the in camera options such as " Bright, Natural, Contrast, Contrast highlight, have any affect on Raw images ?
No impact on the raw file, but the histogram/preview on the back of the camera is based on the jpeg preview that's embedded in the raw file and this little jpeg preview is affected by these settings. With the right contrast/brightness/etc. settings it's very possible for the back of the camera to give you the 'blown out' warning and find out that the raw file is just dandy when you fire it onto the computer. Aim for basic neutral settings here and most importantly keep them consistent so you get to know how the camera's histogram will translate to the actual raw data (this me be why your reset has caused you grief).

Posting a few sample pictures with exif intact might help diagnose your exposure problems.
01-27-2015, 05:46 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
do you have AE locked to AF point selected? this way the spot metering would actually use the AF point. if its not locked it uses the center regardless of focus point
on the K5iis, I believe you get the histogram by pressing the info button a few times after pulling up a pick for review in the LCD. it's been a while since I had one so not 100% sure.
no I didnt have AE locked to AF, but I have tried that, and i usually only use spot focus point.

---------- Post added 01-27-15 at 07:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
No impact on the raw file, but the histogram/preview on the back of the camera is based on the jpeg preview that's embedded in the raw file and this little jpeg preview is affected by these settings. With the right contrast/brightness/etc. settings it's very possible for the back of the camera to give you the 'blown out' warning and find out that the raw file is just dandy when you fire it onto the computer. Aim for basic neutral settings here and most importantly keep them consistent so you get to know how the camera's histogram will translate to the actual raw data (this me be why your reset has caused you grief).

Posting a few sample pictures with exif intact might help diagnose your exposure problems.
OK I understand now, thanks, the embedded JPG is what the histogram gets its reading from, and if the setting was bright then the LCD image would also be bright. I have always shot on Natural, with the saturation down as well as contrast. I guess the biggest issue here is the sunlight. I cant see the LCD screen even pumped up all the way, the sun is almost always at my back and shining onto the camera back, even shading it doesn't help much, and I have to use glasses to see the screen anyway. This being the case perhaps my speed and aperture are wrong for bright white birds. I normally shoot at F8-F9 at those distances and a speed between 640-1250/sec. Perhaps increasing the aperture to F12-16 will reduce the glaring reflection of light off the bird? Its not like I'm going to get much background blur at 100ft distance anyway. And yes, I really need to take classes for Photoshop lol.
I'l let you know how this works out.
01-28-2015, 12:17 AM   #8
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One setting that definitely affects RAW files is Highlight correction. It basically underexposes for one EV and then uses different JPEG rendering to bring back shadows. If you set ISO200, it shoots with ISO100 and ajusts look of JPG (or built-in-RAW JPEG preview) to match normal exposure. But RAW data remains underexposed by one stop.

So, if you have had HC on before and now you have HC off, it definitely changes highlight capacity of your RAW files (shadow capacity, too- because it's underexposed, but shadow lattitude is so great that it's rarely seen).

RawTherapee has possibility to view RAW histogram (where true RAW values are plot) and one can easily compare two RAW files with identical settings and HC on/off.

01-28-2015, 05:26 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by elektrolitr Quote
One setting that definitely affects RAW files is Highlight correction. It basically underexposes for one EV and then uses different JPEG rendering to bring back shadows. If you set ISO200, it shoots with ISO100 and ajusts look of JPG (or built-in-RAW JPEG preview) to match normal exposure. But RAW data remains underexposed by one stop.

So, if you have had HC on before and now you have HC off, it definitely changes highlight capacity of your RAW files (shadow capacity, too- because it's underexposed, but shadow lattitude is so great that it's rarely seen).

RawTherapee has possibility to view RAW histogram (where true RAW values are plot) and one can easily compare two RAW files with identical settings and HC on/off.
I believe I always had HC turned off as that is the default, but I will give it a try. Thanks for the heads up. Seems so odd that one setting affects Raw and the others don't, I would hope a more detailed explanation of settings for jpg vs raw would be in future manuals.
Dewolf
01-28-2015, 07:24 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
Perhaps increasing the aperture to F12-16 will reduce the glaring reflection of light off the bird?
For what it's worth, I've always had trouble shooting white or other extremely reflective butterflies in bright light. The problem seems to be worse with my K30 than it was with my K200D. I've dialed in -2EV exposure compensation
and still had my K30 blow out the highlights. Maybe there's something else going on - I don't always have time to look at what's going on with the camera settings as I barely have time to focus & compose.

If it's slightly overcast, this problem ( mostly ) disappears.
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