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01-28-2015, 06:29 AM   #31
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Two of three Samsung's dimensions are bigger than of K-3. So I consider K-3 smaller (yet more comfortable due to deeper grip, and still a bit small to my hands). Of course, difference isn't that great. None of these cameras are pocketable. But these are easy to hold and operate, you can attach bigger lens and/or flash and so on. Just imagine Samsung's 16-50 and external flash on body like Sam NX3000.

Of course, Sam NX3000 or Panasonic GM1 are extremely compact with pancake lens, but it's the only pro of this combo. No grip, no controls. It can be a second/third camera, but it can't be the only camera unless you always shoot with a pancake.

01-28-2015, 06:42 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I don't think he is really bashing the brand. There are some valid concerns, and things that Pentax should do. Like WR primes or video improvements. Shutter noise not so much, my *istDS makes a *kaTONK* sound, it's pretty amazing really. A nice, mechanical sound, but one that draws a ton of attention. The K-5 though is quiet... much more so than say an A7. Having WR primes would be nice because yes, you may not be changing the lens while it rains, but I like only using one prime when going out anyway, and if necessary may find shelter to switch lenses. Rain often means less light anyway, so a faster lens is an advantage.
but really. it is not just finding shelter when it rains to change lenses, it means drying everything off so moisture does not get into the camera or lens when the seal at the mount is broken.

Better to give up the 1-2 stops than shoot with primes in my opinion.

Add to this, we are not talking 2005 with the limited ISO of the K10D, the K50 is pretty good in low light at Hiigh ISO.

and if the weather is that bad, the sharpness of a prime is wasted with all the water drops on the front of the lens and the rain between subject and camera.

while i understand this is a preference, WR is not the be all and end all for shooters. we all shot for years in bad weather without WR, I consider it more insurance, not primary protection. Always have always will
01-28-2015, 07:23 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I don't think he is really bashing the brand. There are some valid concerns, and things that Pentax should do. Like WR primes or video improvements. Shutter noise not so much, my *istDS makes a *kaTONK* sound, it's pretty amazing really. A nice, mechanical sound, but one that draws a ton of attention. The K-5 though is quiet... much more so than say an A7. Having WR primes would be nice because yes, you may not be changing the lens while it rains, but I like only using one prime when going out anyway, and if necessary may find shelter to switch lenses. Rain often means less light anyway, so a faster lens is an advantage.
I don't think he is bashing the "brand " either. I think he is bashing his own choice of which camera he bought in the line. My guess most of his problems would be gone if he had gone with a K5 or newer from the beginning. They are very quiet and the SR works just fine. Most camera shake comes from the user not the mirror unless you are using a long exposure, then you should be on a tripod with SR turned off. Also you should lock the mirror up then the SR is automatically turned off in the K5 and newer. Also use the timer or a remote. That's the formula for ultra sharp landscape which he says is one of his two main interests.
01-28-2015, 07:31 AM   #34
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That's an interesting analysis. Here are a few things to consider.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
The viewfinders are big and bright in most Pentax cameras. However, the included focusing screen of my K-50 is really bad for manual focusing. This means that I need to spend another good 100-120$ for a proper focusing screen like the KatzEye or from focusingscreens.com
Pentax, like any company, doesn't really WANT you to use the older lenses, they want you to use the new lenses and give them money for those lenses. At least you still have the opportunity to use those old lenses, with many other brands you can't.

And I think you're downplaying the usefulness of the viewfinder for more than focus. Composition for instance is greatly facilitated by a good viewfinder. Just go pick up a rebel and you'll see.

I like an EVF or an LCD in some situations, but there are things you just can't see without a true OVF. So there's a cost associated with removing it.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
the mirror slap of my K-50 is extremely noisy I think for most applications. I had problems with it at public events and bird shooting.
I think that's an exaggeration. People have been taking pictures for decades with noisy mirrors and they survived. Less noise is good but the noise is not the deal breaker you imply it is.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
WR was a selling point for me. Looking at the lenses I have or sold, the only WR lens is the kit one which I don't use anymore. Also, if I wanted to invest in Pentax lenses I would probably ending up with 2-3 limited primes that are not WR anyway so why bother about WR in the first place?
I'd love more WR lenses. Stil, I'd say the reasoning is that you don'T want to change lenses too often in WR conditions, so Pentax concentrated on zooms.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
I never thought about proper video support until recently. Pentax cameras are just not right for video!
They're not the best. But it works, especially with the K-3. I'm eager to see how the K-50 replacement will perform.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
SR is simply not as effective as it seems in theory. You can feel it, sometimes I wonder how did that 1/20 photo came out sharp. But going mirrorless with leaf shutter alone can compensate for the Pentax SR I think.
There I think you a wrong. Just look at the D7100 debacle on the Nikon forums. People were panicking, saying "24 MP is simply too much, you get motion blur, lenses are not as sharp as they were (sic)", etc. Meanwhile K-3 users were obliviously shooting away without missing a meat, the SR taking care of all of that.

QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
I remember thinking of what and advantage dual rotative knobs will bring me instead of just one. Although it is great to be able to modify the aperture & shutter from their dedicated dial, my K-50 fails quite badly in terms of usability. For example, changing ISO always turns on the screen which can be especially annoying and painful for my eyes at night. Also, some useful shooting options are in the menu which is really not pleasant. I'm thinking of the nice design of X-T1 with those dedicated knobs for shutter speed/exposure compensation/ISO on top of the camera. It's a more expensive camera than mine but K-3 is in the same price tag and doesn't give me that.
The K-50 is a compact, mid-level camera. As such, its interface is simplified, streamlined, but still efficient.

the K-3 is an advanced camera, lacking auto scene modes but offering a wealth of controls. Most things have a dedicated button, and the few that don't are accessed by pressing the INFO button and navigating the quick menu. I have handled (for a short period) a recent Fuji body (don't know which one) and I strongly disagree that the Fuji was easier to operate, or that the controls were more plentiful or logical. And it'S NOT in the same price league, once you factor in the lenses especially.

To each his own. I think you obviously desire a mirrorless camera, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not arguing with your preferences. I simply point out things that might be perceived differently.

01-28-2015, 07:41 AM   #35
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Fair enough, they are pretty similar in size, though snapsort says the NX1 is 10% smaller. And the grip could be deeper since the flange distance is shorter.


Mh. I don't think a bit of humidity will kill the camera.


Isn't there a GH4 with a fixed zoom lens by Panasonic? That ones seems to be pretty good, and ridiculously small. Yes, you lose a bit in the sensor, but it's much smaller and lighter, and cheaper than the GH4. Sounds like something the TS could be interested in?
01-28-2015, 07:45 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Are you sure?


Significantly lighter
550 g vs 800 g

Slightly smaller
139x102x66 mm vs 131x100x77 mm

Now, the size difference isn't big, but keep in mind that the lens is closer to the screen, meaning even with a same size lens the overall package won't be as big. Samsung just didn't sacrifice the grip for smaller numbers in a brochure. Also IIRC they have a couple of pancakes too?
250g difference and one's complaining? If one is complaining of this much weight difference, then he is in need of a little exercise or better yet, he/she should forget a dedicated camera and just use a smartphone! That's just roughly the weight of a modern day phone (a Samsung Note perhaps with a case)

And I agree, size is of not an issue especially with a lens, as these mirrorless manufacturers have yet to find a way to defy the laws of physics.
01-28-2015, 07:47 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Mh. I don't think a bit of humidity will kill the camera.
I lost my first zoom lens to mould, but hey, think what you want.
01-28-2015, 08:22 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I lost my first zoom lens to mould, but hey, think what you want.
Hm, my 18-55 is still alive after 4 years in the hands of someone else and then 7 years of abuse by me, including rain, being in a humid country for a few years, hot sirup drink, ... no mold yet. Couple of scratches. And the knowledge that after this post no one on this forum is ever going to buy it from me.


I find the K-5, which is a bit lighter than the K-3, just at the limit. When I'm being a tourist I may have the camera + lens hanging on my wrist for 8 hours straight. A couple of gram can make a big difference. I held a 7D in hands for a couple of minutes, and I felt my hand hurt because of the weight.

01-28-2015, 08:44 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I find the K-5, which is a bit lighter than the K-3, just at the limit. When I'm being a tourist I may have the camera + lens hanging on my wrist for 8 hours straight. A couple of gram can make a big difference. I held a 7D in hands for a couple of minutes, and I felt my hand hurt because of the weight.
You may want to consider those small Lumixes, the RXs, the MX-1, or the GR for those times .

I'm using the Q7 when I want a dangling camera all day long.
01-28-2015, 09:07 AM   #40
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It looks like this thread went on for more than I was expecting. In any case - after all the discutions here I'm also seriously considering the K5IIs for a future upgrade if I can't find anything pocketable that is at least as good as this camera. I still have one curiosity though, does K5 come with the same focusing screen as the K-50?
01-28-2015, 10:28 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
does K5 come with the same focusing screen as the K-50?
It will be pretty similar, i.e. it will not have any manual focusing aid.

If you want to do manual focus, have you considered using live view? I find it's what works best. I think if you're considering the mirrorless route you'd like using live view
01-28-2015, 10:51 AM   #42
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Interesting plot twist today - I went into a shop to try different cameras. Among those that I tried, Pentax K5 really impressed me (shutter sound, grip as a glove, and general usability). The surprise was the Fuji XE-2 EVF that I don't think I could bare!! I will try some more EVF's in the next period and also I really want to try rangefinders like X-pro1 and such.

@bdery, I don't use liveview at all - it just doesn't fit in most situations and it slows me down in a bad way.
01-28-2015, 11:45 AM   #43
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Yup. The K-5 is a great one. If you don't care too much about video the K-3 would be my choice. It has much more compression artifacts (in turn the K-5 has massive files), and for handheld shooting it is useless. Otherwise it is clearly the better camera.

I don't want another camera. One is all I need/want to pay for. And I like being able to switch the lens on the go. I carry my K-5 and 3 lenses with me all the time, so something heavier is a problem, but the K-5 is acceptable.
01-28-2015, 12:28 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
Interesting plot twist today - I went into a shop to try different cameras. Among those that I tried, Pentax K5 really impressed me (shutter sound, grip as a glove, and general usability). The surprise was the Fuji XE-2 EVF that I don't think I could bare!! I will try some more EVF's in the next period and also I really want to try rangefinders like X-pro1 and such.

@bdery, I don't use liveview at all - it just doesn't fit in most situations and it slows me down in a bad way.
You know, a good focusing screen does not cost$100's. I have a couple of different ones from jinfinance which cost about $30 each ( one in my *istD the other in my K10D). Are they the best there, perhaps no, katzeye seems to have that bragging right, but they do work, and I especially like the dual diagonal split image one because it really shows up the out of focus better than a single split.

Any way, for compact, put a split image in your K50 and put an M35 or M28 on it. Small ( relatively) light and good performing, in fact similar overall size and weight to a Leica rangefinder digital with equivalent FOV lenses, and about 1/20 the cost. My BIL has one, and he is still intrigued when I show him my *istD with an M28/2.8
01-28-2015, 01:06 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
- I remember thinking of what and advantage dual rotative knobs will bring me instead of just one. Although it is great to be able to modify the aperture & shutter from their dedicated dial, my K-50 fails quite badly in terms of usability. For example, changing ISO always turns on the screen which can be especially annoying and painful for my eyes at night.
I don't mean to quibble, but you can assign ISO to one of the two control dials in many shooting modes, including Av (see pages 164-166 of the K-50 manual). Then once the LCD is off (Hit info twice, then pick Display Off option), you can change ISO by turning whichever dial you picked (or hitting the green button to return to Auto ISO mode) and I don't think the camera will turn on the screen when you do that. You should be able to see your chosen ISO in the viewfinder display. (Note that I've only tested this on the K-3, as I don't have a K-50.)

Last edited by Doundounba; 01-28-2015 at 01:14 PM.
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