Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-28-2015, 01:11 PM   #46
Site Supporter
6BQ5's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Nevada, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,109
Leaf shutters are awesome. Some of the Q lenses have them. They are tiny and very quiet. I believe the mechanical limit is 1/2000th. Going beyond that speed requires the Q to use an electronic shutter. Then the shutter speed is 1/6000th if I remember correctly.

I have a K-30 which I believe is mechanically identical to a K-50. The shutter and mirror have some audible volume and mechanical shudder when fired. I can feel the body resonate a tiny little bit but I never thought much of it. Images come out crisp and clear. Perhaps SR is stepping in and helping and maybe even the weak AA filter is doing something too. I recently upgraded to a K-3. The difference in shutter sound/feel/feedback is huge! Firing the K-3 sounds like someone clicking a mechanical pencil whereas the K-30 would be like clicking a mechanical pen. Let's also not forget that the K-3 is fresher than the K-30 and the K-3 may be benefiting from Ricoh's investment earlier in the product development cycle. Ricoh bought Pentax on Oct 1, 2011 and the K-30 was announced on May 21, 2012. The K-30 may have been very far along the development process and maybe even into pre-sale production by the time Ricoh finalized its acquisition of Pentax. The K-3 was announced on Oct 7, 2013 so there was plenty of time for Ricoh to get involved in Pentax's development of the body. I'm sure the shutter and mirror were closely examined and reexamined for improvements.

Nothing is perfect, cameras and lenses included. However, the K-30 is a fine camera and very enjoyable to use. Almost every professional review posted online praises the body, the lenses, and the company's efforts.

01-28-2015, 03:05 PM   #47
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,652
I don't think the quiet shutter is because of Ricoh... the K-5 was already very quiet.
01-28-2015, 03:17 PM - 1 Like   #48
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,502
I would suggest spending some time with a similarly-priced EOS Rebel if you want to do a feature comparison. A few minutes attempting to do the things you cited as deficiencies on your K-50 will provide you with renewed respect for your camera. Ditto for a similarly-priced Nikon.

Your time in with the K-50 is very valuable, but is not balanced by time in with the various cameras you consider to be better conceived. I, for one, opted out of a Sony A7 because I found the electronic viewfinder to be inferior.


Steve
01-28-2015, 03:18 PM   #49
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,502
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I don't think the quiet shutter is because of Ricoh... the K-5 was already very quiet.
The quiet shutter is because of Copal...


Steve

01-28-2015, 03:25 PM   #50
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,652
I tried an A7, and while I didn't have any problems with my first Pentax, or any subsequent Pentax, even manually focusing was impossible for me. I am sure I would have found out at some point, but usability is one of the reasons why I like Pentax so much.

Copal?

The mirror is also really quiet on the K-5 and K-3. Older and lesser Pentax are much worse, other brands too.
01-28-2015, 03:28 PM   #51
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 138
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
I don't mean to quibble, but you can assign ISO to one of the two control dials in many shooting modes, including Av (see pages 164-166 of the K-50 manual). Then once the LCD is off (Hit info twice, then pick Display Off option), you can change ISO by turning whichever dial you picked (or hitting the green button to return to Auto ISO mode) and I don't think the camera will turn on the screen when you do that. You should be able to see your chosen ISO in the viewfinder display. (Note that I've only tested this on the K-3, as I don't have a K-50.)
I actually tried this. There are a two problems though:
- In M mode you can't assign ISO changing to any dedicated button apart from the one that turns on the screen.
- Dedicating one of the two dials to the ISO in any of the automatic modes confuses the hell out of me because if in Tv it's on the front dial, in Av it should be on the rear dial in order not to mix up Aperture dial with Shutter dial in between modes. So yes, apart from M it kind of works but I find it impractical.

If any of you knows a way I can change the ISO in the same way as changing the exposure compensation, please, please let me know. This would be such an easy to do software patch if Pentax ever wanted to provide it...
01-28-2015, 03:30 PM - 1 Like   #52
Site Supporter
Saltwater Images's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Newfoundland
Posts: 305
You can look at any system and find the glass half full if you really try. I had a K-100D Super for several years and the mirror slap was noticeable but the camera was the little camera that could when it came to capturing dynamite images. If you have an issue with the mirror slap on the K-50 go try a Canon 5D Mark II - now the mirror slap on that puppy will make your teeth rattle!

I looked at the K-50 but went with the K-5 II as it only cost $100 more at the time, was much quieter, built like a tank and offers a powerhouse of capability. My walk around kit is a K-5 II, HD DA 21, 40, 70 Limited's, an AF 360 FGZ with Sto-Fen and the usual filters, lens pens, remote, etc. it's a very small kit that fits in a small bag. The last thing I would want is to swap it for a small mirrorless camera with a smaller sensor and much larger lenses. I'm former military, I want reliable shooting gear that's discreet, light, compact and can survive a bomb blast - there's no better system than Pentax for my demanding needs. Cheers.

PS: If you're shooting in in sideways rain and 100km per hr winds as I sometimes do - the WR kit lens is a fine piece of kit!
01-28-2015, 04:53 PM   #53
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Montréal QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,831
QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
I actually tried this. [...]
- Dedicating one of the two dials to the ISO in any of the automatic modes confuses the hell out of me because if in Tv it's on the front dial, in Av it should be on the rear dial in order not to mix up Aperture dial with Shutter dial in between modes. So yes, apart from M it kind of works but I find it impractical.
Are you sure you actually tried this? Because in Av mode, it's totally possible to put Aperture on the front dial and ISO on the back one. It's also totally possible to switch the function of the front and back dials in M mode too, if you'd rather go that way to make things consistent. It sounds like you need to get to know your camera a bit more.

QuoteQuote:
- In M mode you can't assign ISO changing to any dedicated button apart from the one that turns on the screen.
You can't assign it to one of the control wheels (since they are both needed for shutter and aperture), but unless I am mistaken, there's still an ISO button! It should be the top button on the four way controller at the back of the camera (the one labeled "ISO"). To change ISO, you hold that button down and turn the back wheel to adjust ISO - as soon as you let go, the camera returns to normal operation, with the back wheel controlling aperture (by default). Or press the ISO button once, turn the back wheel to adjust and then press ISO again to go back to normal operation. Or press ISO once, turn the back wheel to adjust and then after a certain time the camera will automatically go back to normal operation. At least that's how it works on the K-3 - someone please let us know if it's different on the K-50.

What I can't test is whether or not the K-50 will actually turn the display back on when you hit the ISO button (top of the 4-way controller) after turning off the LCD. On the K-3, once you've turned off the back display, it does not turn back on when you change ISO: changes made by turning the back dial while you hold down the ISO button are only seen through the top LCD and inside the viewfinder. I repeat, the back LCD does not come back on. The K-50 may or may not behave differently, partly because it doesn't have a top LCD. If someone could test this, it would be great to know.

Of course, since the ISO button is on the back of the K-50, whereas the K-3 has a dedicated ISO button on top just behind the shutter, all these operations are less convenient than on the K-3, but hey, there have to be a few reasons to pay more for the top dog...


Last edited by Doundounba; 01-28-2015 at 05:21 PM.
01-29-2015, 12:51 AM - 1 Like   #54
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 138
Original Poster
QuoteQuote:
It sounds like you need to get to know your camera a bit more.
Oh come on, I knew somebody would drop the bird!

Let's assume I want shutter speed on the rear dial and aperture on the front one, when possible:

M(auto nothing): front-Aperture, rear-Shutter (ISO from the blamed dedicated button)
AV(auto shutter): front-Aperture, rear-ISO
TV(auto aperture): front-ISO, rear Shutter

Wherever you would assign ISO in Sv or TAv its position is already inconsistent.
I hope it's clearer now.

And no, I don't think K50 should be less easy to use than K3 just because it's cheaper as you implied in your comment. That's just a stupid game companies play to piss off users and make them buy newer models. I mean, photography is all about a few minimal parameters that you need direct access to. I'm not asking as a user for dedicated buttons to turn on/off the SR, to go HDR mode, to launch a Vega rocket into the Earth's orbit. It's simple: a DSLR should allow you fast direct access to shutterspeed / aperture / iso (/ exposurecompensation?). Otherwise what's the point of having a DSLR?
01-29-2015, 06:39 AM   #55
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Montréal QC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,831
QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
Oh come on, I knew somebody would drop the bird!
DSLRs are complex beasts with tons of options and controls. It's perfectly normal to not know everything about them, and I'm still exploring my K-3's options and controls. It's simply preferable, if you don't like something, to check if it can be tweaked before concluding it is a weakness of the camera/system.

QuoteQuote:
Let's assume I want shutter speed on the rear dial and aperture on the front one, when possible:

M(auto nothing): front-Aperture, rear-Shutter (ISO from the blamed dedicated button)
AV(auto shutter): front-Aperture, rear-ISO
TV(auto aperture): front-ISO, rear Shutter

Wherever you would assign ISO in Sv or TAv its position is already inconsistent.
I hope it's clearer now.
Well, for those three modes, it does exactly what you're asking: aperture (when not auto) is always on the front and shutter (when not auto) is always on the back. That's what you asked for, and that's what you got. And you can do it the other way too, if you prefer. Seems pretty workable to me. If you don't like that, you can forego assigning ISO to a control wheel, and always use the ISO button and back wheel combo, which will indeed be inconvenient one-handed (since both are in the back of the camera) and may or may not turn on the back LCD too, I just don't know. If that really bugs you, K-3 or K-5II(s) may be your ticket if you want to stay with Pentax.

Anyway, so let's sum up our bit of conversation...
  • You: I can't change ISO without turning on the screen!
  • Me: Sure you can, here's how. Works for me on K-3.
  • But then it's inconsistent! Aperture is sometimes on the front wheel, sometimes on the back wheel.
  • Me: You can make it more consistent. Here's how.
  • You: And what about M mode?
  • Me: In M mode you can still use the ISO button, I just don't know if that makes the screen turn on. (It doesn't on the K-3.) Can you test it?
  • You: <cry> Not good enough! Now ISO is moving around between M, Av and Tv!
You did not tell us if, in M mode, the back LCD turns back on when you hit the ISO button after turning off the screen, which you should be able to test.

But at this point, it sounds to me like what you want is a camera with dedicated dials for ISO and exposure comp. I believe Fuji has your ticket, and will make you much happier.
01-29-2015, 07:42 AM   #56
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,869
QuoteQuote:
Let's assume I want shutter speed on the rear dial and aperture on the front one, when possible:
OK, lets assume that.... you're an idiot for buying that camera.

You don't research what you buy.
which leads to- you don't buy what you want-
which leads to- you come n the Pentax forum and complain

Don't come on the Pentax forum and complain.... do your research before you buy your camera.

What would you be doing if the Pentax Forum wasn't here? Sitting in your basement room in the dark with a pouty look on your face?

To be a little more positive, I would add, what I do with a new camera is go through... how do I use this camera? How does this camera work... how can I make it work for me? And I guarantee you, give me your camera, and I'm make it work for me. Over the course of my life I've used a lot of different cameras, and I never found a camera I couldn't work with.

Last edited by normhead; 01-29-2015 at 07:53 AM.
01-29-2015, 07:55 AM   #57
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,652
He did some research, but found things that irked him that he didn't think of in the first place... that does happen. You only know you need something once you don't have it.


That being said the K-50, for it's price, is already as good as it gets. I'm sure he'll find things to hate with the A7, or a Fuji, or ...
01-29-2015, 07:55 AM   #58
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,420
QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
Let's assume I want shutter speed on the rear dial and aperture on the front one, when possible:

M(auto nothing): front-Aperture, rear-Shutter (ISO from the blamed dedicated button)
AV(auto shutter): front-Aperture, rear-ISO
TV(auto aperture): front-ISO, rear Shutter

Wherever you would assign ISO in Sv or TAv its position is already inconsistent.
I hope it's clearer now.
Are there any cameras which can do this? You would need three scroll wheels, no? [Edit to add: OK, my Fujis technically do this on the lenses with aperture rings. But aperture rings are becoming dinosaurs, unfortunately.]

IMO, it is more normal to keep ISO on the same wheel in Av and Tv mode. Yes, the other wheel changes from controlling aperture to controlling shutter...but didn't you tell the camera you wanted to switch from controlling aperture to controlling shutter speed? That seems the most logical to me.

My pro bodies have a dedicated ISO button that you can press and scroll a wheel to change the value. In practice, it is less optimal than you might think - I still find myself pulling my eye off the viewfinder to change it. Anyway, I'm more concerned with aperture/shutter and exposure compensation anyway.

---------- Post added 01-29-15 at 09:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Over the course of my life I've used a lot of different cameras, and I never found a camera I couldn't work with.
Have you used a Sony mirrorless? Utterly un-usable IMO.
01-29-2015, 08:02 AM   #59
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,652
QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
Are there any cameras which can do this? You would need three scroll wheels, no?

IMO, it is more normal to keep ISO on the same wheel in Av and Tv mode. Yes, the other wheel changes from controlling aperture to controlling shutter...but didn't you tell the camera you wanted to switch from controlling aperture to controlling shutter speed? That seems the most logical to me.

My pro bodies have a dedicated ISO button that you can press and scroll a wheel to change the value. In practice, it is less optimal than you might think - I still find myself pulling my eye off the viewfinder to change it. Anyway, I'm more concerned with aperture/shutter and exposure compensation anyway.
AFAIK there are some cameras that do have plenty of scroll wheels. IIRC the Samsung NX1 for example has 3-4... 2 normal ones like you find on a Pentax, then one that is around the 5 way dial, like with Canon, and a 4th one on some NX lenses. It's rare though.
01-29-2015, 08:03 AM   #60
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,869
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
He did some research, but found things that irked him that he didn't think of in the first place... that does happen. You only know you need something once you don't have it.


That being said the K-50, for it's price, is already as good as it gets. I'm sure he'll find things to hate with the A7, or a Fuji, or ...
SO he did some research, but didn't know enough about himself to know what he valued? I guess that's true too. If you don't have enough experience as a photographer to know what you want, your chances of getting it are pretty slim, and all the research in the world won't help. But, everyone has to start somewhere. I guess it's just Pentax's bad luck they made such a great camera for a great price that he got lured into something he didn't want. But, he should sell it and move on to what he thinks is better. He's wasting his time here. For some people, buying different cameras is part of the learning experience I guess. Although "learn to use what you have" is probably a better philosophy for learning to take good photographs.

The camera isn't going to change, but you can program yourself to use the camera, it's called learning. Learning to use your camera is probably the easiest part of photography. If you don't get through that, there's noy much chance you're going to make it through the rest.

Most camera classes, they ask you to bring you camera manual, and you are expected to be proficient with it after a week. Then you start the real work.

My Optio W90 has to be set to -.7 EV every time I turn the camera on to maximize contrast and saturation, and I have to memory dive to do it. And if you don't use it and it goes to sleep, you have to reset it when you wake it up. Did I mention you have to memory dive to set it? Every time I press button to activate it, I go to the menus and set it to -.7 Ev, I trained myself. It's annoying, but it's waterproof and shockproof and I doubt another camera ever made would survive what it's been through. I've literally fallen and landed with my body weight on it, in my pocket, without damaging it and I absolutely treasure the pictures I take with it. I would never complain about what it isn't, (and there a lot of things it isn't,)because I treasure what it is.

This guy needs to do some treasuring.

Last edited by normhead; 01-29-2015 at 08:20 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, body, button, camera, cameras, change, dslr, exposure, film, fuji, imo, iso, k-50, k3, k5iis, lens, lenses, mirrorless, pentax, people, photography, shutter, size, sony, weight, wheel, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My first impressions of the K-3 johnvr Pentax K-3 19 07-23-2014 10:57 PM
A Pentax outing and more Q system impressions pinholecam Pentax Q 23 04-20-2014 11:34 AM
Architecture Secrets of the Alhambra and its irrigation system. zztopd Post Your Photos! 4 02-24-2014 02:49 PM
In the Field with the Pentax K-3 - First Impressions Albert Siegel Pentax K-3 40 11-02-2013 06:46 AM
My first impressions of the Pentax K7 doc.mark.dimo Pentax News and Rumors 52 05-22-2009 07:09 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top