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02-04-2015, 10:19 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
it is his thread and his blog,
I still think this is a troll thread with the intent to drive traffic to the OP's pathetic* blog.


Steve


* I am normally not this dismissive, but the OP's ignorance brought it out of me.

02-04-2015, 10:28 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I still think this is a troll thread with the intent to drive traffic to the OP's pathetic* blog.


Steve


* I am normally not this dismissive, but the OP's ignorance brought it out of me.
Funny you should say that,

In some ways he reminds me of another blogger who frequented here until banished, who only had minimal entry level kit but professed to be the absolute authority on the shortcomings of the whole pentax system.

He shall remain nameless
02-04-2015, 10:46 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
He shall remain nameless
Grain Elevated? Something like that...
02-04-2015, 10:47 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Leica is not the only maker of M-mount or LTM lenses. There is some very good value in this space.


Steve
Ok, fair enough. I'm not that familiar in the Leica world.


I think the TS wants to be able to control shutter speed, aperture AND ISO at the same time, i.e. shoot in M mode. And that in a consistent way, with a dedicated dial, or at least a button/dial combo.


I don't think you can press the ISO button while turning the dial to change ISO, pressing the ISO button switches between 2 modes. I'm not a fan of that, and couldn't find anything in the menu of my K-5 to change that (if it is possible I'd be very grateful for a pointer in the right direction). With different modes that you can switch between you have to _look_ to see what is currently the status. I've got a display for that, but it is less consistent than having a button that you have to press while entering something. Imagine having to type a text (especially in a language where nouns are written with a capital letter) when you only have the caps lock key. I can understand the grief over that, and it's really quite trivial to give the option.

02-04-2015, 10:48 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Grain Elevated? Something like that...
Exactly
02-04-2015, 11:10 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Grain Elevated? Something like that...
Lol...
02-04-2015, 12:02 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I still think this is a troll thread with the intent to drive traffic to the OP's pathetic* blog.
1. Link to the blog was not the original idea so no question about traffic
2. I don't have ads or any other means I could gain from traffic
3. If I would've wanted traffic let's say that I could've added a link to my signature, which I never did

You could have figured all of the above by yourself.

So in the end, who's the troll?

Your whole comment was about writing the words "pathetic* blog" and that * explanation. You probably took the End note very personally, which, if it's the case, I strongly support.


I'm sorry folks, those of you that were sincerely involved in the discussion - I feel it's better to completely withdraw from this discussion. Have a nice day!
02-04-2015, 12:24 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I think the TS wants to be able to control shutter speed, aperture AND ISO at the same time, i.e. shoot in M mode. And that in a consistent way, with a dedicated dial, or at least a button/dial combo.
I already told him how to do that using TAv mode. Another name for TAv mode is "manual mode with auto ISO". The way I am suggesting to use it, you control ISO indirectly, by varying aperture and shutter speed. It achieves exactly what the OP requested. ISO is controlled to whatever value is desired simply by moving the front or rear dial.

In TAv mode, set the desired aperture and shutter speed. The camera will select the ISO to meter the scene. Say the ISO is higher than you would like. No problem, just open the aperture, or decrease the shutter speed. The ISO will automatically adjust to maintain exposure, without you touching any other buttons. Please try it so you can see what I'm talking about.

02-04-2015, 01:10 PM - 1 Like   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I think the TS wants to be able to control shutter speed, aperture AND ISO at the same time, i.e. shoot in M mode. And that in a consistent way, with a dedicated dial, or at least a button/dial combo.


I don't think you can press the ISO button while turning the dial to change ISO, pressing the ISO button switches between 2 modes. I'm not a fan of that, and couldn't find anything in the menu of my K-5 to change that (if it is possible I'd be very grateful for a pointer in the right direction). With different modes that you can switch between you have to _look_ to see what is currently the status. I've got a display for that, but it is less consistent than having a button that you have to press while entering something. Imagine having to type a text (especially in a language where nouns are written with a capital letter) when you only have the caps lock key. I can understand the grief over that, and it's really quite trivial to give the option.
I may be misunderstanding what you want, but on the k-5 in M-mode

-Pressing and holding the ISO button and then turning the rear wheel always adjusts the ISO, no matter which of the 2 modes the rear wheel was in (aperture/shutter or toggled to ISO).
-After adjusting the ISO this way, when you release the ISO button you always return to the 'rear wheel adjusts aperture/shutter mode (whichever your preference was set to)
-The only rub I see is if you press and hold the ISO button but don't turn the rear wheel to adjust the ISO, this then counts as a 'toggle', which will mess you up if your next action was using the rear wheel to adjust aperture/shutter

As long as you never do the last thing (press the ISO button and don't end up turning the rear wheel), I think it works as you'd like?

I'd agree that an option to disable the toggling would be nice, but in practice I'm not finding an issue (I never use it as a toggle). More customization is always better though
02-04-2015, 03:01 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
You probably took the End note very personally
Probably not...

My ego is adequate and fully intact.


Steve
02-04-2015, 03:02 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I may be misunderstanding what you want, but on the k-5 in M-mode

-Pressing and holding the ISO button and then turning the rear wheel always adjusts the ISO, no matter which of the 2 modes the rear wheel was in (aperture/shutter or toggled to ISO).
-After adjusting the ISO this way, when you release the ISO button you always return to the 'rear wheel adjusts aperture/shutter mode (whichever your preference was set to)
...
Exactly. One of the things that the OP remained annoyed about (after I solved some of his earlier complaints) is that on the K-50, even if you've turned off the rear LCD (hit info twice, then pick Display Off, which I don't think the OP knew how to do after allegedly owning the camera for one year), hitting the ISO button causes it to turn on again. This is logical since it's next to impossible (on the K-50) to press the ISO button and turn the rear dial rear dial at the same time without taking your eye off the viewfinder. So if the screen didn't turn on, you'd have absolutely no idea what ISO you're picking. On the K-3 (and, I think K-5II), since there's a top LCD and the ISO dial is a dedicated button behind the shutter, the rear LCD does not turn on in in the same scenario.

FWIW, reading the OP's blog "tirade", I am also now of the opinion that the OP is (more or less) a sophisticated troll, or at the very least a disingenuous critic. He uses words like "hack" and "unforgivable flaw" for design choices that are not only perfectly logical and defensible, but also easy to learn and actually useful for a great many shooters! But these design choices just don't suit the OP's own "all-manual-only-with-no-LCD-ever-and-no-multipurpose-dials-whose-function-may-change-in-different-modes" style of shooting. Instead of concluding the system is a "hack", the OP should simply go out and buy an XT-1. In investigating his complaints, I have personally become much more confident and impressed by my K-3's ergonomics, software and design.

Last edited by Doundounba; 02-04-2015 at 04:41 PM.
02-04-2015, 03:51 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I already told him how to do that using TAv mode. Another name for TAv mode is "manual mode with auto ISO". The way I am suggesting to use it, you control ISO indirectly, by varying aperture and shutter speed. It achieves exactly what the OP requested. ISO is controlled to whatever value is desired simply by moving the front or rear dial.

In TAv mode, set the desired aperture and shutter speed. The camera will select the ISO to meter the scene. Say the ISO is higher than you would like. No problem, just open the aperture, or decrease the shutter speed. The ISO will automatically adjust to maintain exposure, without you touching any other buttons. Please try it so you can see what I'm talking about.
If I am not completely mistaken he wants no automatics involved at all. He wants to set _everything_ himself. As if it was a K1000 or so (just without having to change the film). Completely manual mode. And I agree, the way Pentax does _that_ is not ideal (for me). I'd prefer to hold the ISO button while using the dial, instead of having to press it once to get to ISO mode, use dial, then press again to get back to aperture. Yes, I know it shows in the viewfinder which mode I am in, but I still don't like it and mess up things.


@BrianR: Oh my god! Thank you! I didn't know that was possible. Deactivating the toggle would still be nice, but yeah, thank you


Now only one issue is left... there ought to be a Fn button like on much older Pentax DSLRs. Press Fn and then: WB, self timer, flash etc. They have that function. Don't press Fn, and those buttons let you pick focus points. I hate having to press OK in the center. Heck, I'd be fine if the OK button is the Fn button. Haven't found an option to do that, have I missed something?


Pentax seems just not that great at letting me personalize the camera, at letting me use the functions to the fullest extend. They like to dumb it down a bit.


About the TS... I think his blog post, his posting here should more be like "This is my shooting style, the Pentax K-50 isn't flexible enough to accomodate it. You just can't adjust it/personalize it that much." That's all.
02-04-2015, 09:22 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
If I am not completely mistaken he wants no automatics involved at all. He wants to set _everything_ himself. As if it was a K1000 or so (just without having to change the film). Completely manual mode. And I agree, the way Pentax does _that_ is not ideal (for me).
As soon as you use the Green Button, you are no longer in Manual, you are in Program mode.

You are dismissing my suggestion of TAv because you don't understand it. If you try it, you will see. You can control ISO with no buttons.
02-05-2015, 06:43 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
@BrianR: Oh my god! Thank you! I didn't know that was possible. Deactivating the toggle would still be nice, but yeah, thank you
Glad it helped

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Now only one issue is left... there ought to be a Fn button like on much older Pentax DSLRs. Press Fn and then: WB, self timer, flash etc. They have that function. Don't press Fn, and those buttons let you pick focus points. I hate having to press OK in the center. Heck, I'd be fine if the OK button is the Fn button. Haven't found an option to do that, have I missed something?
This one bugs me too and I think we're out of luck (I'd love to hear a fix on a k5 if I'm also missing something!). I dislike that it's such a long press to toggle between the two states (I've never hit the 'OK' button by accident) and I hate that I can't tell which of the two states I'm in without looking through the viewfinder (which I'm not doing if I'm using the arrows to change the WB or drive mode). I'd be happy if this state was displayed in the top lcd to keep me from changing the AF point when I'm trying to access the drive mode. I'd even settle for an option to forget this state when flicking the camera on/off so I could at least be sure which I'm in without having to use the viewfinder.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the k-5's layout, it pretty much stays out of my way. I haven't spent much time with other brands to compare. It's definitely better than the 'entry level' pentax bodies, and that may annoy those users but I think improved ergonomics and customization will always be a means to differentiate the more costly bodies.
02-05-2015, 07:22 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by misomosi Quote
1. Link to the blog was not the original idea so no question about traffic
2. I don't have ads or any other means I could gain from traffic
3. If I would've wanted traffic let's say that I could've added a link to my signature, which I never did

You could have figured all of the above by yourself.

So in the end, who's the troll?

Your whole comment was about writing the words "pathetic* blog" and that * explanation. You probably took the End note very personally, which, if it's the case, I strongly support.


I'm sorry folks, those of you that were sincerely involved in the discussion - I feel it's better to completely withdraw from this discussion. Have a nice day!
The door is right over there. >..... close it on the way out please.
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