K-7 Noise at High ISO and Firmware Update

whistlebird7 · 01-28-2015, 09:50 PM

I just purchased from Ebay a K-7 with 9k actuations with the 18-55 and 50-200mm lenses in excellent condition.

I bought it because of the many glowing reviews that it received but I came across one afterwards that talked about unuseable images for anything above ISO 800.

The review mentioned that Pentax intended to improve noise reduction above ISO 800 with a firmware update to make images cleaner and more useable. However, none of the firmware updates that I found indicate that this was addressed or improved.

Does anyone know if this was done or is this still the K-7 Achilles heel?

Aside from this limitation, the camera in construction, and features, seems to have the best of some of Canon and Nikon's semi-pro or pro cameras combined.

I do not feel I made a purchasing mistake but wanted some of your insights. Thanks.

**grog85361** · 01-28-2015, 10:05 PM

One person's "unuseable" is another persons' perfectly acceptable. Enjoy your K-7, use it for the photos you like to make, and be your own judge. The issue of noise is very subjective. Try not to let one naysayer influence your enjoyment of a fine camera. If it is too noisy for you, you now have the opportunity to learn how to manage this limitation. Back in film days, ISO 800 was a big deal, and very grainy!

sterretje · 01-28-2015, 10:08 PM

Firmware will not change noise behaviour of a sensor. You can check the firmware version of your camera and check how many versions you're out. Press the menu button while switching the camera on.

Adam's thread https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success.html might be helpful to get better jpegs out of the camera at high ISO.

j2photos · 01-28-2015, 10:10 PM

The K-7 has been regarded as one of the noiseiest cameras made by Pentax. I've owned it for years and have never seen an update that reduces noise. It is your typical Pentax flagship with second to none build quality, but unfortunately you have a noisy camera. That being said you will still capture amazing photos with this camera albeit noisy it's a great body.

Last edited by j2photos; 01-28-2015 at 10:16 PM.

**jatrax** · 01-28-2015, 10:12 PM

Have you tested this on your images or are you relying on the internet?

Everyone has a difference tolerance for noise, depending on the ultimate use of the image, your personal preference, how well you expose an image, what the subject is and so on. For example I rarely shoot at 400 ISO on the k-3 and consider that almost unusable for me. But others routinely shoot @ 3200 and get good results.

I would not (and do not) put much faith in internet reviews. They can be a guide but verify the facts in your own situation before making a decision.

Another thought is, when was that review written? Noise reduction technology has made huge strides since the k-7 was released. Lightroom can clean up a remarkable amount of noise and there are even better plug ins available. So perhaps when the review was written it was a problem, but with today's software, not so much.

Anyway, shoot some images and process them and see what you get.

Steve.Ledger · 01-28-2015, 10:35 PM - **2 Likes**

If you bought the K-7 for low light shooting, you bought the wrong camera. But for everything else it's awesome. I had one for 5 years, it was a great camera.
btw: If you go looking for 'noise' you will find it with any DSLR.

hcc · 01-28-2015, 11:29 PM

The K-7 is a great camera at low ISO. Teamed up with a prime, it delivers great shots and my K-7 continue to deliver, even as a backup for my K-3.

The K-7 is on the other hand noisy above ISO800. You can always correct (eg Noiseware), but from ISO800-1600, you start loosing a lot of details.

In low light, you need to mate the K-7 with a fast prime (eg f1.4) to keep the ISO at or below ISO 800.

In terms of the body, yes the K-7 is great for handling and body solidity. No surprise since the K-5, K-5ii and K-5 bodies are all based upon the K-7 design!

**Bruce Clark** · 01-28-2015, 11:41 PM

The K-7 was my first and only Digital SLR and I reckon even after 55,000 actuations it is still a great camera. It does have a reputation for high noise compared to some other units but as others have pointed out this can be quite successfully treated in PP. If you can learn to live within its limitations you will have a very enjoyable experience with your K-7. I would not agree that images above ISO 800 are all unusable. Sure they may not be suitable for some purposes but his does not mean they all are totally worthless. Attached photo was from my first week with this camera at ISO 800, hand held at 1/4 second shutter speed and not processed in any way except downsized for this upload. This is what a K-7 and the sometimes derided Kit lens is capable of in the hands of a novice.

Go and shoot some pictures at various ISOs in various light conditions, process them and post some results. You may be pleasantly surprised.

j2photos · 01-28-2015, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Clark

The K-7 was my first and only Digital SLR and I reckon even after 55,000 actuations it is still a great camera. It does have a reputation for high noise compared to some other units but as others have pointed out this can be quite successfully treated in PP. If you can learn to live within its limitations you will have a very enjoyable experience with your K-7. I would not agree that images above ISO 800 are all unusable. Sure they may not be suitable for some purposes but his does not mean they all are totally worthless. Attached photo was from my first week with this camera at ISO 800, hand held at 1/4 second shutter speed and not processed in any way except downsized for this upload. This is what a K-7 and the sometimes derided Kit lens is capable of in the hands of a novice.

Go and shoot some pictures at various ISOs in various light conditions, process them and post some results. You may be pleasantly surprised.

I used mine frequently at ISO 1600, but would rarely go above that. So ill agree that 800 is not the ceiling for the K-7.

**Bruce Clark** · 01-29-2015, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by Bruce Clark

Attached photo was from my first week with this camera at ISO 800, hand held at 1/4 second shutter speed and not processed in any way except downsized for this upload. This is what a K-7 and the sometimes derided Kit lens is capable of in the hands of a novice.
.

Just for the heck of it I did a quick process of the original in Topaz Denoise.

**Rondec** · 01-29-2015, 04:20 AM

The biggest thing with the K7 is not to under expose. I usually would have about +0.7 EV dialed in to my exposure compensation if I wasn't sure. As long as you hit your exposure right on, you can use iso 1600 and iso 3200 without too much problem. But bringing up images in post always seemed to bring a lot of noise out of the shadows.

If you shoot jpegs, then Adam's post mentioned above can be helpful. If you shoot RAW and do a lot of high iso shooting, then I would recommend either learning noise reduction techniques in lightroom or, getting a free-standing noise reduction software like Noise Ninja, Topaz Denoise, or Nik Dfine.

mohb · 01-29-2015, 05:43 AM

Unless you do a lot of low light photography and want perfectly noiseless images the k7 is still a very good camera. I've never really understood quite what's being photographed by so many people that demands high ISO but I spent years using film where anything over 200 ISO was grainy (noisy)

digital029art · 01-29-2015, 08:02 AM

The k20d has the same internals, I've actually taken a liking to the noise at 800 or 1600 - but for black and white. It has a different look to the the "grain", more film-like, akin to Tri-X - which I like a lot.
For color though it has a lot of chroma noise that's hard to get rid of. Best thing is to expose for shadows so as not to underexpose. For comparison, the 16MP sensor used in most of the recent cams has almost no chroma until you get to 3200, but it achives that with a kinda "splotchy" look vs. the "grain" look of the k20/k7.

r0ckstarr · 01-29-2015, 07:50 PM

I've had a K7 since it came out. My advice is this:

Shoot RAW
ETTR
Fast Primes for low light situations (I personally prefer the M 50 1.7 or the DA 50 1.8)
Try to stay under ISO 1600

You'll be fine.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-30-2015, 05:00 AM

The issue with the K7 is that when it came out, it was the high ISO champ. Want terrible quality at ISO 1600 try a K10

But time has passed it by, the K5 at ISO 5000 is better than the K7 at ISO 1600, but the K7 is not all that bad

K7 using the 1.7x AFA and the K300/4 at ISO 1600,

and 100% crop of the head

01-28-2015, 09:50 PM	#1
whistlebird7 New Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Englewood, NJ USA Posts: 11	K-7 Noise at High ISO and Firmware Update I just purchased from Ebay a K-7 with 9k actuations with the 18-55 and 50-200mm lenses in excellent condition. I bought it because of the many glowing reviews that it received but I came across one afterwards that talked about unuseable images for anything above ISO 800. The review mentioned that Pentax intended to improve noise reduction above ISO 800 with a firmware update to make images cleaner and more useable. However, none of the firmware updates that I found indicate that this was addressed or improved. Does anyone know if this was done or is this still the K-7 Achilles heel? Aside from this limitation, the camera in construction, and features, seems to have the best of some of Canon and Nikon's semi-pro or pro cameras combined. I do not feel I made a purchasing mistake but wanted some of your insights. Thanks.

01-28-2015, 10:05 PM	#2
grog85361 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Phoenix Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 893	One person's "unuseable" is another persons' perfectly acceptable. Enjoy your K-7, use it for the photos you like to make, and be your own judge. The issue of noise is very subjective. Try not to let one naysayer influence your enjoyment of a fine camera. If it is too noisy for you, you now have the opportunity to learn how to manage this limitation. Back in film days, ISO 800 was a big deal, and very grainy! Last edited by grog85361; 01-28-2015 at 10:07 PM. Reason: lousy spelling

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01-28-2015, 10:08 PM	#3
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Firmware will not change noise behaviour of a sensor. You can check the firmware version of your camera and check how many versions you're out. Press the menu button while switching the camera on. Adam's thread https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/106600-k-7-high-iso-success.html might be helpful to get better jpegs out of the camera at high ISO.

01-28-2015, 10:10 PM	#4
j2photos Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Manteca, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,653	The K-7 has been regarded as one of the noiseiest cameras made by Pentax. I've owned it for years and have never seen an update that reduces noise. It is your typical Pentax flagship with second to none build quality, but unfortunately you have a noisy camera. That being said you will still capture amazing photos with this camera albeit noisy it's a great body. Last edited by j2photos; 01-28-2015 at 10:16 PM.

01-28-2015, 10:12 PM	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Have you tested this on your images or are you relying on the internet? Everyone has a difference tolerance for noise, depending on the ultimate use of the image, your personal preference, how well you expose an image, what the subject is and so on. For example I rarely shoot at 400 ISO on the k-3 and consider that almost unusable for me. But others routinely shoot @ 3200 and get good results. I would not (and do not) put much faith in internet reviews. They can be a guide but verify the facts in your own situation before making a decision. Another thought is, when was that review written? Noise reduction technology has made huge strides since the k-7 was released. Lightroom can clean up a remarkable amount of noise and there are even better plug ins available. So perhaps when the review was written it was a problem, but with today's software, not so much. Anyway, shoot some images and process them and see what you get.

01-28-2015, 10:35 PM - 2 Likes	#6
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	If you bought the K-7 for low light shooting, you bought the wrong camera. But for everything else it's awesome. I had one for 5 years, it was a great camera. btw: If you go looking for 'noise' you will find it with any DSLR.

01-28-2015, 11:29 PM	#7
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,001	The K-7 is a great camera at low ISO. Teamed up with a prime, it delivers great shots and my K-7 continue to deliver, even as a backup for my K-3. The K-7 is on the other hand noisy above ISO800. You can always correct (eg Noiseware), but from ISO800-1600, you start loosing a lot of details. In low light, you need to mate the K-7 with a fast prime (eg f1.4) to keep the ISO at or below ISO 800. In terms of the body, yes the K-7 is great for handling and body solidity. No surprise since the K-5, K-5ii and K-5 bodies are all based upon the K-7 design!

01-28-2015, 11:43 PM	#9
j2photos Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Manteca, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,653	Originally posted by Bruce Clark The K-7 was my first and only Digital SLR and I reckon even after 55,000 actuations it is still a great camera. It does have a reputation for high noise compared to some other units but as others have pointed out this can be quite successfully treated in PP. If you can learn to live within its limitations you will have a very enjoyable experience with your K-7. I would not agree that images above ISO 800 are all unusable. Sure they may not be suitable for some purposes but his does not mean they all are totally worthless. Attached photo was from my first week with this camera at ISO 800, hand held at 1/4 second shutter speed and not processed in any way except downsized for this upload. This is what a K-7 and the sometimes derided Kit lens is capable of in the hands of a novice. Go and shoot some pictures at various ISOs in various light conditions, process them and post some results. You may be pleasantly surprised. I used mine frequently at ISO 1600, but would rarely go above that. So ill agree that 800 is not the ceiling for the K-7.

01-29-2015, 04:20 AM	#11
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	The biggest thing with the K7 is not to under expose. I usually would have about +0.7 EV dialed in to my exposure compensation if I wasn't sure. As long as you hit your exposure right on, you can use iso 1600 and iso 3200 without too much problem. But bringing up images in post always seemed to bring a lot of noise out of the shadows. If you shoot jpegs, then Adam's post mentioned above can be helpful. If you shoot RAW and do a lot of high iso shooting, then I would recommend either learning noise reduction techniques in lightroom or, getting a free-standing noise reduction software like Noise Ninja, Topaz Denoise, or Nik Dfine.

01-29-2015, 05:43 AM	#12
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Unless you do a lot of low light photography and want perfectly noiseless images the k7 is still a very good camera. I've never really understood quite what's being photographed by so many people that demands high ISO but I spent years using film where anything over 200 ISO was grainy (noisy)

01-29-2015, 08:02 AM	#13
digital029art Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 440	The k20d has the same internals, I've actually taken a liking to the noise at 800 or 1600 - but for black and white. It has a different look to the the "grain", more film-like, akin to Tri-X - which I like a lot. For color though it has a lot of chroma noise that's hard to get rid of. Best thing is to expose for shadows so as not to underexpose. For comparison, the 16MP sensor used in most of the recent cams has almost no chroma until you get to 3200, but it achives that with a kinda "splotchy" look vs. the "grain" look of the k20/k7.

01-29-2015, 07:50 PM	#14
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	I've had a K7 since it came out. My advice is this: Shoot RAW ETTR Fast Primes for low light situations (I personally prefer the M 50 1.7 or the DA 50 1.8) Try to stay under ISO 1600 You'll be fine.

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01-30-2015, 05:00 AM	#15
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	The issue with the K7 is that when it came out, it was the high ISO champ. Want terrible quality at ISO 1600 try a K10 But time has passed it by, the K5 at ISO 5000 is better than the K7 at ISO 1600, but the K7 is not all that bad K7 using the 1.7x AFA and the K300/4 at ISO 1600, and 100% crop of the head