Brought a knife to a gunfight

**PJ1** · 02-08-2015, 02:46 PM

Not Crocodile Dundee - James Coburn in "The Magnificent Seven". Good images!

**Wingincamera** · 02-08-2015, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by seventhdr

Well! You must have been within 16 feet of the gunfighter!!!

Mythbusters did an episode where they looked at bringing a knife to a gunfight. After much testing the result was that at under sixteen feet the knife person had a better than 50/50 chance of stabbing the gunfighter before they could draw their gun.
Regards
Chris

Back when I was a LEO we trained for this and the distance was 20 feet. About 50% of the time the guy with the knife was able to reach & stab the officer before the officer could draw & fire his weapon. This got better with practice, but the first time was surprising.

Saltwater Images · 02-08-2015, 04:22 PM

I do believe you brought a bolt action Parker Hale M82 (or C3 as I know it) to an arena filled with full automatic rifles. A competent shooter can always outperform the less skilled regardless of what they're toting. Damn fine shooting. Kudos. Cheers for sharing.

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-08-2015, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

Nice shots, but given that you were using AF, you brought a gun to a gunfight. Manual focus would've been a "knife" and even then not too difficult.

Maybe a .22 against a bazooka but really, if you hit the first shot accurately with a .22 you still might win, it's just with a bazooka you can afford to on,y be close

It's something like close only counts in horseshoes (hand grenades and nuclear weapons)

Driline · 02-08-2015, 05:21 PM

Nice. Maybe I don't need that new Pentax 70-200 2.8 lens after all!

johnmflores · 02-09-2015, 09:07 AM - **2 Likes**

Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA*16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone.

So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA* zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras.

Joel B · 02-09-2015, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA*16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone.

So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA* zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras.

I gotta keep this post as a guide to action shots with the K-5!

osv · 02-09-2015, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA*16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone.

So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA* zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras.

well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot.

based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter.

manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots.

thanks for sharing those pics!

Sportsgal501 · 02-09-2015, 10:31 AM

boom!

Docrwm · 02-09-2015, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA*16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone.

So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA* zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras.

The photographer shows through whether its the Q on a motorcycle ride or the K-5 at bikes on ice. Those of us that are learning to make photos instead of taking pics need all the technical advantages we can get.

wibbly · 02-09-2015, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by osv

well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot.

based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter.

manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots.

thanks for sharing those pics!

i was about to say the opposite!

need a slower shutter and more panning! while freezing the bikes in action can be really cool (especially with chunks of ice flying everywhere), i'd have loved to have seen a few with really nice pan and motion blur in the background.

**andre-mz5** · 02-10-2015, 06:59 AM

Great series John and just shows that people with skills and reasonable/good tools will outperform the non skilled with their "perfect" tools.
I do agree with wibbly that given your position you could have tried to take some panning shots with lower shutter speeds. With the skills you show in this series I'll bet you would have come up with some stunning shots.

pinholecam · 02-10-2015, 08:16 AM

John, Bravo!

Goes to show that knowing the subject/event, getting access, daring and the equipment goes a long way.

Nice shots.

rafa75 · 02-10-2015, 05:45 PM

Very Sharp Knife .

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-10-2015, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by osv

well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot.

based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter.

manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots.

thanks for sharing those pics!

But remember, he is shooting flash, so unless he goes with HSS Flash, which does not give him fast recycle times, he is limited by the shutter speed

02-10-2015, 06:59 AM	#27
andre-mz5 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Eindhoven Photos: Gallery Posts: 268	Great series John and just shows that people with skills and reasonable/good tools will outperform the non skilled with their "perfect" tools. I do agree with wibbly that given your position you could have tried to take some panning shots with lower shutter speeds. With the skills you show in this series I'll bet you would have come up with some stunning shots. Last edited by andre-mz5; 02-10-2015 at 09:08 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
New here-just brought a Q!	uberj	Pentax Q	10	11-04-2013 07:00 PM
My friend brought me back a slightly smaller Pentax MX from Hong Kong	KevinSchenk	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	07-15-2012 10:29 AM
Brought a smile to my face	royden	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	1	06-28-2012 01:28 PM
People Excedrin Headache #57: There is a knife on my head	jmbradd	Post Your Photos!	6	09-10-2010 07:43 PM
Brought a Pentax 10D and immediate problem	JamesAus	Pentax DSLR Discussion	16	06-22-2007 02:22 PM

02-08-2015, 02:46 PM	#16
PJ1 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Toowoomba, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,484	Not Crocodile Dundee - James Coburn in "The Magnificent Seven". Good images!

02-08-2015, 03:43 PM	#17
Wingincamera Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pine Haven, Wyoming Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,182	Originally posted by seventhdr Well! You must have been within 16 feet of the gunfighter!!! Mythbusters did an episode where they looked at bringing a knife to a gunfight. After much testing the result was that at under sixteen feet the knife person had a better than 50/50 chance of stabbing the gunfighter before they could draw their gun. Regards Chris Back when I was a LEO we trained for this and the distance was 20 feet. About 50% of the time the guy with the knife was able to reach & stab the officer before the officer could draw & fire his weapon. This got better with practice, but the first time was surprising.

02-08-2015, 04:22 PM	#18
Saltwater Images Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Newfoundland Photos: Gallery Posts: 501	I do believe you brought a bolt action Parker Hale M82 (or C3 as I know it) to an arena filled with full automatic rifles. A competent shooter can always outperform the less skilled regardless of what they're toting. Damn fine shooting. Kudos. Cheers for sharing.

02-08-2015, 05:19 PM	#19
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by luftfluss Nice shots, but given that you were using AF, you brought a gun to a gunfight. Manual focus would've been a "knife" and even then not too difficult. Maybe a .22 against a bazooka but really, if you hit the first shot accurately with a .22 you still might win, it's just with a bazooka you can afford to on,y be close It's something like close only counts in horseshoes (hand grenades and nuclear weapons)

02-08-2015, 05:21 PM	#20
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,697	Nice. Maybe I don't need that new Pentax 70-200 2.8 lens after all!

02-09-2015, 09:07 AM - 2 Likes	#21
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361 Original Poster	Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone. So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras.

02-09-2015, 09:37 AM	#22
Joel B Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Barnett MO. Photos: Albums Posts: 2,336	Originally posted by johnmflores Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone. So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras. I gotta keep this post as a guide to action shots with the K-5!

02-09-2015, 09:52 AM	#23
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by johnmflores Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone. So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras. well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot. based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter. manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots. thanks for sharing those pics!

02-09-2015, 10:31 AM	#24
Sportsgal501 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: New York City Photos: Albums Posts: 49	boom!

02-09-2015, 10:37 AM	#25
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by johnmflores Thanks all for the kind words - I even learned a little bit about knife fights LOL. To be honest, I was a little nervous about using the K-5 (my K-3 is in for service). It doesn't have the best AF and the DA16-50 isn't the quickest, but my job is to make photos, not excuses. So I hedged my bets by shooting with a good DOF (F6.3-F8.0 for most shots), relying upon the K-5's good high ISO performance to pull me through. Most of the shots are ISO 1600-3200. I also wanted quick flash recycle times so I shot at 1/32 power, the high ISO helping to extend my reach. I wanted to retain some ambient light, so I balanced everything accordingly. I also panned as I shot to add a little motion and set the camera to trailing curtain sync, but that didn't seem to have much of an impact. Took a little time to get the balance right, but once I got it dialed in, there was very little adjustment required, and for certain sequences I could have shot with MF and waited for the bikes to enter the focus zone. So yes, with a little practice and patience the K-5 and DA zooms can still deliver. I never claimed that they were the "champs". It's just that sometimes people focus too much on what gear is best when it's often cheaper to focus on technique. And the good thing about improving technique is that it transfers to all cameras. The photographer shows through whether its the Q on a motorcycle ride or the K-5 at bikes on ice. Those of us that are learning to make photos instead of taking pics need all the technical advantages we can get.

02-09-2015, 11:14 AM	#26
wibbly Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Edmonton Posts: 600	Originally posted by osv well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot. based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter. manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots. thanks for sharing those pics! i was about to say the opposite! need a slower shutter and more panning! while freezing the bikes in action can be really cool (especially with chunks of ice flying everywhere), i'd have loved to have seen a few with really nice pan and motion blur in the background.

02-10-2015, 08:16 AM	#28
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	John, Bravo! Goes to show that knowing the subject/event, getting access, daring and the equipment goes a long way. Nice shots.

02-10-2015, 05:45 PM	#29
rafa75 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Europe - France - Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 35	Very Sharp Knife .

02-10-2015, 11:07 PM	#30
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by osv well done!! love that stuff, it looked like a blast to shoot. based on all of the track stuff that i've shot over the years, i would suggest testing a bit faster shutter than 1/160th-1/180th, some of those shots are showing blur... it's hard to match speed when panning with a slow shutter... the wide tight corner shots could have been done at f/5.6, to make up for the faster shutter. manual zone focus would work well for a lot of those shots. thanks for sharing those pics! But remember, he is shooting flash, so unless he goes with HSS Flash, which does not give him fast recycle times, he is limited by the shutter speed