K20D's built-in HDR feature--?

gavinhw · 06-01-2008, 06:50 AM

I purchased a K20D last week. I've skimmed through the instruction manual and navigated its menus. I could find no mention of the K20D's much ballyhooed HDR feature:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=585830&forum_id=80

for instance.

Was that just pre-release speculation?

Thx
-Gavin.

woodyga · 06-01-2008, 07:12 AM

look on page 196 of your owners manual

Woody,

Confused · 06-01-2008, 09:05 AM

Hi Gavin

P.196 of the manual states:

Quote:

Creates an image that looks as though it is a high dynamic range image. Select from three levels.

The words to actually take note of are "that looks as though". To the best of my knowledge, it's a kind of pseudo HDR and not the genuine article. I think what you might be referring to is the EDR (Extended Dynamic Range) feature, which is something slightly different ! To use 3 or 5 stop auto-bracketing, see this extract:

Quote:

On the K20D, you can select 'one push bracketing' in the custom menu to accomplish this -- 3 or 5 frames with a single push.

Alternatively, you can read the entire thread below:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/27190-hdr-autobrac...ght=HDR+images

Best regards
Richard

Ben_Edict · 06-01-2008, 11:59 AM

As this is only a filter applied during in-camera post-processing, it produces in no way a HDR image. It just emulates the look of HDRs, may be flattening the mid-tone curve a bit, as does the Extended Dynamic Range function during shooting.

Ben

Vlad · 06-01-2008, 07:46 PM

i didn't get it...does it have HDR or not? come on pentaxians who own a K20D,pelase do tell!

**DAZ** · 06-01-2008, 09:01 PM

The HDR on the K20D is a JPG filter like the other filters (B&W, Sepia and so on). It will change the contrast of the output JPG to make it look like a HDR photo. That is all the book says it will do and that what it looks like it is. The 200% D-Range is a different animal. There has been a lot of debate on this so some are not into going into this. All the book really will say is it makes it harder to blow the highlights but add a little noise to the dark parts. Some are saying the all it is doing is under exposing by about one stop then expanding the contrast to fill the high end. If the is what the camera is doing then they say they can do the same thing themselves PP. If the camera is somehow giving one more stop of dynamic range and you are just looking at the high end all 3 of these options will look about the same so one can’t really tell just by looking at this. If there is one stop on the high end with 200% D-Range is would look like it was under exposed by one stop. The only way to really know is to do a dynamic range test with a special lighted test target that exceeds the range of the camera. So far I have not seen this yet. When they do this test they will be able to see if the high end goes up with 200% D-Range then they will be arguing about where the noise begins and the detail ends.

DAZ

gavinhw · 06-01-2008, 10:28 PM

I guess I misunderstood what the hype was all about. I was under the impression that there was a new "single-shot" HDR feature (a set of bracketed exposures taken in quick succession or nearly simultaneously) unique to the K20D.

The HDR filter is just a post-capture simulation of HDR shots. The 200% extended dynamic range feature prevents the clipping of highlights. Bracketing will always work for any tripod mounted camera.

Thanks everybody for the input.

**jbinpg** · 06-01-2008, 11:19 PM

Gavin - The HDR feature you read about is real. However, it is an enabler for HDR photography, not a "do it in HDR" feature. You can set the camera so that with one shutter release, it will begin a series of bracketed exposures without you having to intervene to recock the shutter, change the aperture, etc. I haven't tried it but the setting is there in the Custom menu waiting to be used.

Ben_Edict · 06-02-2008, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by jbinpg

Gavin - The HDR feature you read about is real. However, it is an enabler for HDR photography, not a "do it in HDR" feature. You can set the camera so that with one shutter release, it will begin a series of bracketed exposures without you having to intervene to recock the shutter, change the aperture, etc. I haven't tried it but the setting is there in the Custom menu waiting to be used.

What you are mentioning is just the auto-bracketing functionality, which allows to take a bracketed series with only one shutter release action. All the HDR must be done in post-processing. So it is only the remedy to one of the K10's annoyances, where you had to trigger every shutter release of a bracketed series manually (and often forgot, that you were still inbracketing mode...) It is ppurely a question of camera handling and will not give any superior or easier to use resulot, than any other bracketing series with the K20 or any other camera. To call that a HDR feature looks overoptimistic to me.

Ben

Confused · 06-02-2008, 04:26 AM

Hi Gavin

Re your statement:

Quote:

I was under the impression that there was a new "single-shot" HDR feature (a set of bracketed exposures taken in quick succession or nearly simultaneously) unique to the K20D.

Well, you're kind-of HALF right ! As others have said, the K20D will perform either a 3 or 5 shot auto 'one push bracketing' sequence via the custom menu. You will subsequently have to import those resulting images into a digital editing software package of some description that is capable of processing HDR images. I hope that clears up any slight 'confusion' on your part !

Best regards
Confused (Richard)

Gimbal · 06-02-2008, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

So it is only the remedy to one of the K10's annoyances, where you had to trigger every shutter release of a bracketed series manually

Not entirely right, you press and hold down the button and the camera snaps away three or five shots as selected.

Ben_Edict · 06-02-2008, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Not entirely right, you press and hold down the button and the camera snaps away three or five shots as selected.

Yes, you can of course use the standard series function. But I rarely count three frames and then stop. The K20 is a little bit easier to use in that respect (but I haven't binned my K10 because of that…)

Ben

flyer · 06-02-2008, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

Yes, you can of course use the standard series function. But I rarely count three frames and then stop. The K20 is a little bit easier to use in that respect (but I haven't binned my K10 because of that…)

Ben

With the original firmware, you had to push the shutter release for every pictures of a bracket. With firmware upgrade 1.30, you can hold the shutter release and the camera will count for you, id es it will take all three or five pictures and stop there, even if you keep on holding the shutter release. I think there was some confusion about the operation of the bracketting function in earlier post and I hope this will clear it up.

06-01-2008, 06:50 AM	#1
gavinhw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 145	K20D's built-in HDR feature--? I purchased a K20D last week. I've skimmed through the instruction manual and navigated its menus. I could find no mention of the K20D's much ballyhooed HDR feature: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=585830&forum_id=80 for instance. Was that just pre-release speculation? Thx -Gavin.

06-01-2008, 09:05 AM	#3
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067	Hi Gavin P.196 of the manual states: Quote: Creates an image that looks as though it is a high dynamic range image. Select from three levels. The words to actually take note of are "that looks as though". To the best of my knowledge, it's a kind of pseudo HDR and not the genuine article. I think what you might be referring to is the EDR (Extended Dynamic Range) feature, which is something slightly different ! To use 3 or 5 stop auto-bracketing, see this extract: Quote: On the K20D, you can select 'one push bracketing' in the custom menu to accomplish this -- 3 or 5 frames with a single push. Alternatively, you can read the entire thread below: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/27190-hdr-autobrac...ght=HDR+images Best regards Richard Last edited by Confused; 06-01-2008 at 03:45 PM.

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06-01-2008, 07:12 AM	#2
woodyga New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Missouri , USA Posts: 17	look on page 196 of your owners manual Woody,

06-01-2008, 11:59 AM	#4
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	As this is only a filter applied during in-camera post-processing, it produces in no way a HDR image. It just emulates the look of HDRs, may be flattening the mid-tone curve a bit, as does the Extended Dynamic Range function during shooting. Ben

06-01-2008, 07:46 PM	#5
Vlad Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 21	i didn't get it...does it have HDR or not? come on pentaxians who own a K20D,pelase do tell!

06-01-2008, 09:01 PM	#6
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	The HDR on the K20D is a JPG filter like the other filters (B&W, Sepia and so on). It will change the contrast of the output JPG to make it look like a HDR photo. That is all the book says it will do and that what it looks like it is. The 200% D-Range is a different animal. There has been a lot of debate on this so some are not into going into this. All the book really will say is it makes it harder to blow the highlights but add a little noise to the dark parts. Some are saying the all it is doing is under exposing by about one stop then expanding the contrast to fill the high end. If the is what the camera is doing then they say they can do the same thing themselves PP. If the camera is somehow giving one more stop of dynamic range and you are just looking at the high end all 3 of these options will look about the same so one can’t really tell just by looking at this. If there is one stop on the high end with 200% D-Range is would look like it was under exposed by one stop. The only way to really know is to do a dynamic range test with a special lighted test target that exceeds the range of the camera. So far I have not seen this yet. When they do this test they will be able to see if the high end goes up with 200% D-Range then they will be arguing about where the noise begins and the detail ends. DAZ

06-01-2008, 10:28 PM	#7
gavinhw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Original Poster	I guess I misunderstood what the hype was all about. I was under the impression that there was a new "single-shot" HDR feature (a set of bracketed exposures taken in quick succession or nearly simultaneously) unique to the K20D. The HDR filter is just a post-capture simulation of HDR shots. The 200% extended dynamic range feature prevents the clipping of highlights. Bracketing will always work for any tripod mounted camera. Thanks everybody for the input.

06-01-2008, 11:19 PM	#8
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Gavin - The HDR feature you read about is real. However, it is an enabler for HDR photography, not a "do it in HDR" feature. You can set the camera so that with one shutter release, it will begin a series of bracketed exposures without you having to intervene to recock the shutter, change the aperture, etc. I haven't tried it but the setting is there in the Custom menu waiting to be used.

06-02-2008, 01:52 AM	#9
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by jbinpg Gavin - The HDR feature you read about is real. However, it is an enabler for HDR photography, not a "do it in HDR" feature. You can set the camera so that with one shutter release, it will begin a series of bracketed exposures without you having to intervene to recock the shutter, change the aperture, etc. I haven't tried it but the setting is there in the Custom menu waiting to be used. What you are mentioning is just the auto-bracketing functionality, which allows to take a bracketed series with only one shutter release action. All the HDR must be done in post-processing. So it is only the remedy to one of the K10's annoyances, where you had to trigger every shutter release of a bracketed series manually (and often forgot, that you were still inbracketing mode...) It is ppurely a question of camera handling and will not give any superior or easier to use resulot, than any other bracketing series with the K20 or any other camera. To call that a HDR feature looks overoptimistic to me. Ben

06-02-2008, 04:26 AM	#10
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067	Hi Gavin Re your statement: Quote: I was under the impression that there was a new "single-shot" HDR feature (a set of bracketed exposures taken in quick succession or nearly simultaneously) unique to the K20D. Well, you're kind-of HALF right ! As others have said, the K20D will perform either a 3 or 5 shot auto 'one push bracketing' sequence via the custom menu. You will subsequently have to import those resulting images into a digital editing software package of some description that is capable of processing HDR images. I hope that clears up any slight 'confusion' on your part ! Best regards Confused (Richard)

06-02-2008, 06:09 AM	#11
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Ben_Edict So it is only the remedy to one of the K10's annoyances, where you had to trigger every shutter release of a bracketed series manually Not entirely right, you press and hold down the button and the camera snaps away three or five shots as selected.

06-02-2008, 10:49 AM	#12
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by Gimbal Not entirely right, you press and hold down the button and the camera snaps away three or five shots as selected. Yes, you can of course use the standard series function. But I rarely count three frames and then stop. The K20 is a little bit easier to use in that respect (but I haven't binned my K10 because of that…) Ben

06-02-2008, 11:28 AM	#13
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by Ben_Edict Yes, you can of course use the standard series function. But I rarely count three frames and then stop. The K20 is a little bit easier to use in that respect (but I haven't binned my K10 because of that…) Ben With the original firmware, you had to push the shutter release for every pictures of a bracket. With firmware upgrade 1.30, you can hold the shutter release and the camera will count for you, id es it will take all three or five pictures and stop there, even if you keep on holding the shutter release. I think there was some confusion about the operation of the bracketting function in earlier post and I hope this will clear it up.