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03-04-2015, 08:02 AM   #16
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I have both K-3 and K-S2 now. I like them both. But the K-3 is unquestionably better specified in every way and is a must-have if you can buy only one of the two cameras. In particular, the K-3's dual-card slots is a valuable feature, and an Eye-Fi card in slot 2 pretty much handles wi-fi functions. Regarding wi-fi. (If you are in Japan make sure you can find the "Image Sync" application for your smart device, referred to in the K-S2 manuals as being necessary for K-S2 wi-fi functions. The "image Sync" application does not seem to be available in America yet.)

Having said that, K-S2 DOES replace both a K-01 and a K-30, since it has a microphone input to match the K-01's capability. Otherwise the K-S2 is an update to the K-30/50 capabilities, most of which you will still find except for "composition adjustment."

It might boil down to the need for an articulating screen, but I think K-3 still trumps that feature.


Last edited by Marktax; 03-04-2015 at 08:52 AM.
03-04-2015, 08:26 AM - 1 Like   #17
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That articulating screen for macros is really enticing.

Last edited by normhead; 05-18-2015 at 05:39 AM.
03-04-2015, 08:56 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That articulating screen of macros is really enticing.
Yes indeed; that is what is making me lean towards the S2 this summer, over the K3. However, it appears that there is no grip available for the S2, so that is a major point in favor of the K3!

Another question; I don't see anywhere in the description of the S2, that the body is WR. Is this true?

Last edited by csa; 03-04-2015 at 09:08 AM.
03-04-2015, 09:15 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
Yes indeed; that is what is making me lean towards the S2 this summer, over the K3. However, it appears that there is no grip available for the S2, so that is a major point in favor of the K3!

Another question; I don't see anywhere in the description of the S2, that the body is WR. Is this true?
Yes, K-S2 is definitely weather resistant, and the 18-50 kit lens is, too. No, there is no possibility of a battery grip, and K-S2 does not accept AA batteries like the K-30/50 do. Your power is the single Li90 that comes with the camera, and any spares you choose to buy. The K-30/50 battery is identical if you already have either of those cameras.

03-04-2015, 09:15 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The k-3 mirror flop was said to be fixed by firmware update by Ricoh but the owners having mirror flop issues did not see an improvement after the firmware update.
No. Ricoh issued a firmware update (v1.11) that mitigated the runaway mirror (there never was a mirror flop issue) problem, but did not address the root cause. The fix* came at the price of a blank frame for the exposure where the fault would have occurred, but at least the risk of physical damage to the mechanism is reduced. Users experiencing runaway mirror or blank frame should seek service under warranty. The real fix involves a low-level re-flash of the affected board, a process not accessible to the normal operating firmware.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
However, the mirror flop issue concerned a camera up to a certain serial number.
This is not true (sorry). Pentax serial numbers are not strictly sequential and to the best of my knowledge a serial number range was never firmly established.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So if someone would buy a second hand k-3 he/she should simply check the serial number.
See above. I would suggest that date of manufacture (present in exif) might be a better indication of vulnerability. The incidence of reported new cases dropped off sharply in late summer of 2014. Better yet, simply ask the seller if they ever had a problem. Runaway/crazy mirror was not particularly prevalent even at peak and a symptom-free camera should be assumed to not be affected.


Steve

(...has followed the runaway mirror issue closely since it was first reported and has been an active participant on most of the relevant threads regarding the problem...)

* The v1.11 firmware fix involved detected the fault condition and aborting the exposure sequence. The result is one or more blank frames in a sequence. This is problematic for people doing burst or interval work.

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-04-2015 at 09:21 AM.
03-04-2015, 09:20 AM   #21
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It may be for a newbie, an articulated flipping screen is more important than the frame-rate and other high end features. And some people just want the latest (and greatest) especially in regards to high-tech electronic stuff.
03-04-2015, 09:21 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
Yes, K-S2 is definitely weather resistant, and the 18-50 kit lens is, too. No, there is no possibility of a battery grip, and K-S2 does not accept AA batteries like the K-30/50 do. Your power is the single Li90 that comes with the camera, and any spares you choose to buy. The K-30/50 battery is identical if you already have either of those cameras.
Thanks for that information!
03-04-2015, 09:22 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
What a market. as if the K3 is such a dog that it became cheaper than the "entry level...
I wonder if electronics are way overpriced early in their life cycle or whether they are being sold at a loss after a year or more?
Now there is a concept!


Steve

03-04-2015, 09:29 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
In some ways I'm sure the KS-2 is better than the K-3.
Smaller, lighter, and more features, but different build. As a companion body, I can see the K-S2 as a very viable option for existing K-3 users and a definitely upgrade option for K-5 users who do not need the alloy body.


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03-04-2015, 09:31 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That articulating screen of macros is really enticing.
That would be the main drawing point for me. Low angle work is hard. I am tall and my knees are shot

Full support for wireless tether is also intriguing.


Steve
03-04-2015, 10:14 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Smaller, lighter, and more features, but different build.
I wouldn't say K-S2 has "more" features than K-3, but that the feature sets are different. Articulating screen versus two card slots, for example. K-3 probably has more features in a strictly numerical sense, and the more professionally-oriented ones, like a better, more quiet shutter mechanism and an X-sync socket. K-3 has very useful "Composition Adjustment," K-S2 does not. K-S2 has "Clarity Enhancement" as an in-camera "post-processing" option, and a different HDR implementation than previous bodies. The dust removal modes operate differently. I can't report on KS2's wi-fi implementation yet because the necessary "Image Sync" app seems not to be available. The K-3, I already know works well with both FLU and Eye-Fi cards. For the money today, K-3 is probably the best specified camera on the planet. K-S2 is a pretty good deal and a nice camera (I have them both), but K-3 is clearly the better of the two in that price neighborhood.

Last edited by Marktax; 03-04-2015 at 10:52 AM.
03-04-2015, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The k-3 mirror flop was said to be fixed by firmware update by Ricoh but the owners having mirror flop issues did not see an improvement after the firmware update. However, the mirror flop issue concerned a camera up to a certain serial number. So if someone would buy a second hand k-3 he/she should simply check the serial number.
Regarding the price differences between K-3 and K-S2, it can't be compared. The K-3 has been introduced a while ago , the K-S2 is just being introduced. Sensors are different, features are different etc.
Hi Biz You are correct
I bought an other K3 silver edition it is only 10wks old and it had FW 1.11 and it had the dreaded mirror flap the serial is 2576211 it was one of the first batch so was not fixed that's what I assumed
It has now gone back to Pentax to be fixed.
Also please note
the fix within the factory is to do an INTERNAL FW upgrade. I believe this alters the clock cycle within the camera.


The present 1.11 FW does not fix the problem what it does is shut the camera down and do a reset although it never done that in my case.
its cheaper for Pentax to use the 1.11 and hope it works on most of the cameras,
although any cameras coming of the production line now should have the fix applied at manufacture


cameras affected were batch from 4862xxx to 4930xxx black edition Silver edition2573xxx to 2578xxx


you will find up to date info: if you google it
Cheers Tom G
03-04-2015, 11:32 AM   #28
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I set myself to do an upgrade from the old K7, this year.
I think I'll choose K-S2 and then I'll wait successor of K3.
03-04-2015, 12:28 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom777 Quote
I believe this alters the clock cycle within the camera
Firmware update is somehow a workaround to the mirror flop. The real issue can't be fixed by firmware for the simple reason that the shutter mechanism is having deterministic timing constraints, hence operated by synchronous logic with more than one clock domain (can still be triggered by firmware ;-), then clocked by hardware). These problems are known but still happen at random if overlooked by designers and not detected during the tests of the prototypes. I personally had the experience of one chip having this behavior with probability of 1/2000 (= you have to run the chip a number of time and if you are luck, the bug happens) on 3% of the chips and at temperature below -25 degC (very cold indeed). It can happen at hot as well.

Back to Pentax: in order to save money avoiding a recall of all cameras that needed a hardware fix on the shutter driver, Pentax did a software workaround a limit damages and most likely added a test to screen out modules having this issue in order to eliminate the mirror flop issue on new cameras manufactured onward.

So, if you buy a K-3 new , mirror flop should not be there. If you buy a K-S2, we don't know because it's very early to know if this model has some bugs or not.
03-04-2015, 02:04 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Firmware update is somehow a workaround to the mirror flop. The real issue can't be fixed by firmware for the simple reason that the shutter mechanism is having deterministic timing constraints, hence operated by synchronous logic with more than one clock domain (can still be triggered by firmware ;-), then clocked by hardware). These problems are known but still happen at random if overlooked by designers and not detected during the tests of the prototypes. I personally had the experience of one chip having this behavior with probability of 1/2000 (= you have to run the chip a number of time and if you are luck, the bug happens) on 3% of the chips and at temperature below -25 degC (very cold indeed). It can happen at hot as well.
I believe that you have correctly stated the nature of the K-3 runaway mirror issue and also provided a good explanation why it was difficult for Ricoh to characterize and correct and why a recall for affected cameras was not done. Your conclusion is also very good regarding purchase of a new K-3.


Steve
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