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03-08-2015, 01:35 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I am always always surprised and bothered when I read this on these forums - it's a foreign concept to me.
You'd never be able to do this here in Australia (consumer law here does not allow returning of an item because you've changed your mind) and I actually would not expect it to be possible with such things as expensive DSLR cameras.
I'd hate to wonder if I was receiving a 'tried and returned' item when I made a purchase.
+1

Also, it just feels like such a waste. We have factories using energy and raw material to churn out DSLRs. He just bought 2 of them, meaning double the energy and resources were used just because he can't make up his mind.

I also think he's making too big a deal out of it. Instead of worrying about which model to get, just get one. Or better yet, keep that "beat up" K-50. If it still works and allows him to do what he wants, why not? Then if he finds a real reason to upgrade, he can still do so. And if he knows why he's upgrading, he will probably know which camera he wants, which makes everything a whole lot simpler and frees up time and attention for actually taking photos.

03-08-2015, 02:21 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I am always always surprised and bothered when I read this on these forums - it's a foreign concept to me.
You'd never be able to do this here in Australia (consumer law here does not allow returning of an item because you've changed your mind) and I actually would not expect it to be possible with such things as expensive DSLR cameras.
I'd hate to wonder if I was receiving a 'tried and returned' item when I made a purchase.
+2 .... I'd be pissed big time!

Its probally why they pay so much more in the US for their Cameras......
03-08-2015, 02:29 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I am always always surprised and bothered when I read this on these forums - it's a foreign concept to me.
You'd never be able to do this here in Australia (consumer law here does not allow returning of an item because you've changed your mind) and I actually would not expect it to be possible with such things as expensive DSLR cameras.
I'd hate to wonder if I was receiving a 'tried and returned' item when I made a purchase.
I will assume that this is from an online reseller. They usually have fairly liberal return policies.

The problem (if you shoot Pentax) is that there is no way to handle one in a store. I don't think there is a store within an hour's drive of me that carries Pentax products. Not saying that you should just order products and return them after you try them out, but if you are really uncertain, it may be the only way to figure it out.

I don't order what I don't think I'll use, but I can understand the other point of view.
03-08-2015, 03:54 AM   #19
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Here in Norway some shops offer a 30 day "no questions asked return policy". Items that is beeing returned is then sold with a discount and stated as "customer return" but with full warranty. I used this when buying a TV. I bought one and found that it had some annoying quircks and i wasnt happy with the quality of the backlight. Returned it and got different model. Very nice system.

03-08-2015, 03:56 AM   #20
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If only marriages worked that way......
03-08-2015, 03:58 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
If only marriages worked that way......
Do you want 30 days or 30 years in the fine print, Noel? :-D
03-08-2015, 04:09 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Do you want 30 days or 30 years in the fine print, Noel? :-D
In most cases, I'd be the one being returned.....mostly Express Post with tracking, but no insurance!
03-08-2015, 04:11 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
In most cases, I'd be the one being returned.....mostly Express Post with tracking, but no insurance!
I hope she at least pokes a couple of air holes in the box for you. :-)

03-08-2015, 04:16 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I hope she at least pokes a couple of air holes in the box for you. :-)
Thanks.....I would try to grab some bubble wrap at least.
03-08-2015, 05:22 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I am always always surprised and bothered when I read this on these forums - it's a foreign concept to me.
You'd never be able to do this here in Australia (consumer law here does not allow returning of an item because you've changed your mind) and I actually would not expect it to be possible with such things as expensive DSLR cameras.
I'd hate to wonder if I was receiving a 'tried and returned' item when I made a purchase.
I don't like the concept either. Unfortunately, in the US, it's getting harder and harder to find B&M camera stores, and even harder to find B&M camera stores that stock Pentax. And that's for big city dwellers. If you live in small town USA or, like me, in the country, it's impossible to buy Pentax in a store.

QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
Also, it just feels like such a waste. We have factories using energy and raw material to churn out DSLRs. He just bought 2 of them, meaning double the energy and resources were used just because he can't make up his mind.
Uh, no. That might come close to true if the factory's daily production quota was not much more than a few units. For factories running at or near optimum operating capacity, the cost to produce one additional unit is minimal. Plus, it's not like a returned camera has to be disposed of. It can still be sold, albeit at a discount. To claim that buying two cameras with the intent to keep one and return one doubles use of energy and resources is a bit over the top.
03-08-2015, 06:04 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by MPrince Quote
Uh, no. That might come close to true if the factory's daily production quota was not much more than a few units. For factories running at or near optimum operating capacity, the cost to produce one additional unit is minimal. Plus, it's not like a returned camera has to be disposed of. It can still be sold, albeit at a discount. To claim that buying two cameras with the intent to keep one and return one doubles use of energy and resources is a bit over the top.
Ok, I might be exaggerating things a bit. Maybe you are right that the shop can sell the camera to someone else (although I don't see how, given the ridiculously low margins on cameras, but ok).

But I'm not just talking about the manufacturing process itself. If indeed the cameras were bought at an online shop, take into account shipping too, and the energy that's wasted there, for returning whatever body he does not want to keep.

In any case, I feel his focus is incorrect. Instead of worrying which camera he should buy, he should ask himself why he wants a new camera in the first place, and give that some thought. Then do some research and decide which camera fits those needs best (maybe asking questions on forums like these). But if he can't answer that question, I think he should keep his K-50, assuming it still works. If it doesn't, that's another story. But even then he might want to consider having it fixed instead of just buying another camera.

But of course, our western society tells us that we should buy more stuff.

I'm still using a 4.5-year-old iPhone 4S. I frown when other people say their phones are "beat up" after 2 years. I take a look at the phone and really don't understand what the fuss is about. I recently repaired my Senseo coffee machine for the second time. One of the magnets in the water container was rusting. So I went online, found a webshop where they sell spare parts, bought a new magnet and fixed it myself, saving money in the process. Same for my radio tuner. It went dead a while ago. So I opened it up and pretty quickly determined that the transformer was to blame. So I called the importer, ordered a new one and fixed it myself. And you know what? I appreciate it more now too.

But it's the society we live in.

Last edited by starbase218; 03-08-2015 at 06:12 AM.
03-08-2015, 08:15 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I am always always surprised and bothered when I read this on these forums - it's a foreign concept to me.
At least he intends to keep one. I knew someone who would buy a new camera to use for a vacation, then return it shortly after. Liberal return policies are great, but open to abuse of customers not shopping in good faith.
03-08-2015, 08:38 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
But I'm not just talking about the manufacturing process itself. If indeed the cameras were bought at an online shop, take into account shipping too, and the energy that's wasted there, for returning whatever body he does not want to keep.
Again, you might have a point if the shipper were transporting a single package, but the shipper's truck is transporting dozens, or even hundreds of packages. The incremental cost of a single item is clearly negligible. Please note, I am NOT endorsing the idea of buying two items knowing one will be returned. But I really think you are overstating the economic and environmental impact.

QuoteQuote:
In any case, I feel his focus is incorrect. Instead of worrying which camera he should buy, he should ask himself why he wants a new camera in the first place, and give that some thought. Then do some research and decide which camera fits those needs best (maybe asking questions on forums like these). But if he can't answer that question, I think he should keep his K-50, assuming it still works. If it doesn't, that's another story. But even then he might want to consider having it fixed instead of just buying another camera.
I certainly agree with you here.

QuoteQuote:
But of course, our western society tells us that we should buy more stuff.
Western society tells me no such thing. I make my own decisions.

QuoteQuote:
I'm still using a 4.5-year-old iPhone 4S.
I still use a flip phone.
03-08-2015, 10:13 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by MPrince Quote
Again, you might have a point if the shipper were transporting a single package, but the shipper's truck is transporting dozens, or even hundreds of packages. The incremental cost of a single item is clearly negligible. Please note, I am NOT endorsing the idea of buying two items knowing one will be returned. But I really think you are overstating the economic and environmental impact.
You might have a point if he were the only person doing this. Besides, you have to start somewhere, and you only have control over your own actions, not someone else's.
03-08-2015, 03:11 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
You might have a point if he were the only person doing this. Besides, you have to start somewhere, and you only have control over your own actions, not someone else's.
I do have a point. Did you know that B&H Photo (one of the top online retailers in the US) will ban people with a history of excessive returns? It's true, ask Henry Posner if you don't believe me. In any event, people who do what the OP contemplated doing are a tiny minority. You can believe that or not, I don't care.
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