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03-19-2015, 12:03 PM   #1
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Upgrade path to FF

This article is enlightening to say the least:, especially if you are looking forward to the FF: Opinion: The myth of the upgrade path: Digital Photography Review

03-19-2015, 01:08 PM   #2
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It's not an upgrade, it's an evolution, you can keep your Pentax DFA and FA (if you have) gears, sell you APS-C gears and use the money to buy FF gears.
03-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #3
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Or, you shot film before getting a DSLR and you just want both body to offer the same FOV with the same lens.

You can also want to bigger VF.

Oh wait ! That's my case !

The whole rest of the FF "advantage" i don't really care, everything is already good enought.
03-19-2015, 01:34 PM   #4
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I think I have a drastically different view of the utility of most focal lengths than the author of that article.

03-19-2015, 01:36 PM   #5
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The author makes some good points, not the least of which is don't be surprised when your telephoto lens doesn't have the reach it used to (or apparently won't). I also think the points about "what's better" are subjective, and buying FF glass to use on APS-C is a compromise. Often a very acceptable compromise, but still a compromise.
03-19-2015, 01:41 PM - 2 Likes   #6
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Good morning.
I disagree in some points with this article.

In my opinion FF and APS-C are different tools and both have their pros and cons. But coming from film I miss wideangles without too much distortion. Sorry... That's FF . Same thing for 31mm and 43 mm : on APSC they have a character but that's not their nature. But, for sure, If I take pics of my son doing sports of course I like the crop factor when using teles (and that's why I will NEVER sell my trusted and beloved k5). The same for macro. But I would like using a T/S or a 24 with the FOV they are intended to(ok..no many T/S in pentax right now,,,).

Then, just another considerationeople coming from film camera sistem(just like me) years ago had to choose between APS-C and FF considering a really huge difference in price... and many didn't had the possibility to afford the price of a FF body even if they would like to buy it(I used Canon gear, I wasn't a Canon loyal fan and Eos 5d II-III was really expensive and over priced). Now the time has come people can choose between APS-C and FF spending quite the same amount of money for a camera body...that's good for all of us!!!!!
I was considering to buy a Sony a7 II when Pentax FF was announced . Now I'm very happy I could invest in a Pentax FF that will be my second camera and use lenses like they were intended in the film days. A 20 mm on FF would be a real wideangle and there would be no need to go to 10-20 mm zooms for APS-C. But that's the way I see things, many would differ and I respect them all!

Best regards.
Matteo
03-19-2015, 01:53 PM - 1 Like   #7
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click-bait, with some good points

The gist of the article is that you should't buy lenses that are compromised FOV-wise on your current format just so they can be used on a larger format, in this case, FF - that you should buy something that works best for your current format. Not a bad bit of advice.

Unfortunately the article title is just click-bait. The upgrade path is real. It just doesn't necessitate that every single lens purchase you make is part of that path.

The upgrade path is an optional direction to take that might utilize the majority of your past apsc purchases - having *no* upgrade path within your mount doesn't even allow you that option. You're stuck at aps-c, or m43, or whatever... Unless you're willing to sell *everything* and start over with a FF manufacturer.

The upgrade path is very real and an important consideration.
03-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by bm75 Quote
In my opinion FF and APS-C are different tools and both have their pros and cons.
Yep. I was at a wedding last weekend and the wedding photog was shooting both FF and APS bodies (both Canon) with the APS being used with a fast 50 for the reception where the light was dim and there was lots of action.


Steve

03-19-2015, 03:11 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Unfortunately the article title is just click-bait. The upgrade path is real.
I agree. The upgrade path (sort of a misnomer actually) exists because your role and needs as a photographer changes as you mature in your art/craft. It exists even if you bought the very ultimate in top shelf gear as you started out. I use a lot of non-APS-C glass on my K-3. I did not buy those lenses in anticipation of anything. I bought them because I like them. At least one (Helios 44M 58/2) is technically better on APS-C than on the 35mm format for which it was designed, but that is not why I bought it nor do I particularly care.

In addition to my small format (APS-C and 35mm) gear, I also have a 4x5 view camera and shoot both full and cropped format with that device. All of my large format lenses cover the 4x5 frame, but that does not preclude my using them with my 6x7cm roll film holders. The 4x5 camera was purchased after my small format gear, but was it part of the upgrade path? I dunno. Have I any desire to buy smaller image circle LF lenses for use with roll film?* Now that is a funny joke. Of course not.

I would suggest that we seek out the tools that allow us to perfect the expression of our vision and not worry about future-proofing kit or whether we have accounted for equivalence in all things or whether our gear choices reflect a wise investment (now that indeed is laughable).


Steve

* Such lenses are not significantly lighter, smaller, or of better quality
03-19-2015, 03:41 PM   #10
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micro4/3-man: "The myth to upgrade path to APS-C."

03-19-2015, 04:01 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I agree. The upgrade path (sort of a misnomer actually) exists because your role and needs as a photographer changes as you mature in your art/craft. It exists even if you bought the very ultimate in top shelf gear as you started out. I use a lot of non-APS-C glass on my K-3. I did not buy those lenses in anticipation of anything. I bought them because I like them. At least one (Helios 44M 58/2) is technically better on APS-C than on the 35mm format for which it was designed, but that is not why I bought it nor do I particularly care.

In addition to my small format (APS-C and 35mm) gear, I also have a 4x5 view camera and shoot both full and cropped format with that device. All of my large format lenses cover the 4x5 frame, but that does not preclude my using them with my 6x7cm roll film holders. The 4x5 camera was purchased after my small format gear, but was it part of the upgrade path? I dunno. Have I any desire to buy smaller image circle LF lenses for use with roll film?* Now that is a funny joke. Of course not.

I would suggest that we seek out the tools that allow us to perfect the expression of our vision and not worry about future-proofing kit or whether we have accounted for equivalence in all things or whether our gear choices reflect a wise investment (now that indeed is laughable).


Steve

* Such lenses are not significantly lighter, smaller, or of better quality
You're totally right. the news is that we'll be able to use every lens just on a FF body with crop mode, no matter if Apsc designed lenses or FF and that's great. And there'll be no waste of money not for FF lenses owners, not for Apsc owners . this is why I don't agree with the article and don't like the dualism between Apsc and FF and the consequent statement "sell one, buy the other". the Ff 70-200 will serve as a 100-300 just switching a dial on the camera. absolutely great!! best regards. Matteo
03-19-2015, 08:52 PM   #12
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I think the article makes a great deal of sense.
Having the K-3, and knowing that a Ricoh/Pentax full frame is coming, has put me in a quandary. I don't know as if I really 'need' the full frame, but I don't know what Ricoh is planning for their APS-C camera line: will it be a consumer level only line with cameras like the K-S1, or will they continue with a flagship model? As long as I'm using the K-3 I don't want to invest in any lenses, as an addition or replacement, for fear of further obsolescence if I were to move to full frame. However, until I know their intentions with the APS-C line, I'm also restricted from further purchases.
Currently, I have the Sigma 24-70 f2.4 HSM which is full frame, but my others (Sigma 18-35 'Art', Sigma 10-20 f3.5, Pentax 55 f1.4, Pentax 35 macro f2.4, Pentax 21 f3.2, and the Pentax 50-200) are all APS-C. The only lens I feel a 'need' to upgrade is the 50-200mm, but whereas I would have considered the Pentax 60-250mm (an APS-C lens) previously, I'm not comfortable with that, or any other, choice now.
The comments that a change to full frame, from APS-C, brings up the option of changing to a different system is valid. Ricoh/Pentax won't have many full frame lenses for quite a while, if ever. That means that if I were to move, should I necessarily move to a Ricoh/Pentax full frame? Yes, I know all the full frame film lenses are available, but I've used several of those zooms on the K-3 and, honestly, I don't feel they are in the same league as the modern lenses I currently have. I could continue to use my current lenses on the full frame in crop mode, but really, what's the point of that? (Rather like buying a Corvette to only drive at 50 km/h from home to the mall.)
While many have said that Ricoh/Pentax going with a full frame is a positive for the company, its left me more confused about my future within that line.
03-19-2015, 09:04 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canuck_west Quote
As long as I'm using the K-3 I don't want to invest in any lenses, as an addition or replacement, for fear of further obsolescence if I were to move to full frame.
Why wouldn't you invest in lenses that work on both full frame and APS-C?
03-20-2015, 12:46 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canuck_west Quote
... but I don't know what Ricoh is planning for their APS-C camera line: will it be a consumer level only line with cameras like the K-S1, or will they continue with a flagship model?...
One thing is certain - there are too many good PENTAX APS-C lenses and K-3 will be further developed with the 645Z and the FF. And no matter which direction they turn their main attention (MF, FF or APS-C). MF sales will never exceed the APS-C sales...
03-20-2015, 09:04 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Why wouldn't you invest in lenses that work on both full frame and APS-C?
a) You are assuming that a person would definitely go to full frame. If one doesn't, then you are paying more for lenses that are larger, and bulkier.
b) The selection of modern, auto focus, full frame lenses for the Pentax K mount is, to be charitable, rather small.

---------- Post added 03-20-15 at 10:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aksel Quote
One thing is certain - there are too many good PENTAX APS-C lenses and K-3 will be further developed with the 645Z and the FF. And no matter which direction they turn their main attention (MF, FF or APS-C). MF sales will never exceed the APS-C sales...
That's an enthusiastic assumption. Can Ricoh/Pentax afford to develop cameras and lenses for 3 lines? Time will tell, but I'm guessing it will be difficult.
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