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07-24-2015, 08:02 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
We have a discussion about a New stadium for the soccerclub in Rotterdam overhere. The current stadium is old and seats 50.000 People. The idea is to build a New One seating 70.000 People. The club almost never need this. Just some games a years It's completely sold out and they Could use extra setting up to 60.000. But for international games it is different, not for our national team, but for Champions League. If you want the Champions League final you need the 70.000 seating. So for that One evening in may 2023 we might build that oversized stadium. To my my feelings the 50 megapixels is the same.
Exactly! But that does not mean building the bigger stadium is a bad idea

07-24-2015, 08:35 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Exactly! But that does not mean building the bigger stadium is a bad idea
A wist of sources maybe.....
07-24-2015, 08:48 AM   #108
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My wife's K100D can make clear 12"x12" prints with excellent clarity. A wedding photographer I knew used to use a 5mp Nikon and made bigger prints that turned out fantastic. A good lens would help a lot

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07-24-2015, 08:55 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
My wife's K100D can make clear 12"x12" prints with excellent clarity.

+1 to that. Some of my favourite 12"x18" prints on my wall are from the K100D.

07-24-2015, 09:14 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Exactly! But that does not mean building the bigger stadium is a bad idea
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
A wist of sources maybe.....
its like saying you want 50MP, or what the hell, lets ask for 100MP and use a 10mm lens for every shot you will take, to cover the range 10-40mm and a 50 mm to cover the range from 50-200mm
you just crop in more and more, because you only need 5MP to print,

Aside from the impact this has on all of the spin off things, like memory card and disk space, computer-CPU Memory for editing, TIME for editing, etc..... it is a monumental waste of resourse
07-24-2015, 10:33 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
its like saying you want 50MP, or what the hell, lets ask for 100MP and use a 10mm lens for every shot you will take, to cover the range 10-40mm and a 50 mm to cover the range from 50-200mm
you just crop in more and more, because you only need 5MP to print,

Aside from the impact this has on all of the spin off things, like memory card and disk space, computer-CPU Memory for editing, TIME for editing, etc..... it is a monumental waste of resourse
Theses 50MP cameras are highend products and quite expensive one. There no reason to buy them if you are not interrested in the feature.

The feature as I see it:
- Print huge like 40x60" while keeping lot of details. For some kind of scenes, this is an added value, clearly.
- Comfort to crop a lot for wildlife and remove any interrest to have a separate APSC camera from a magnification point of view.
- Capture the max you can and don't hesistate to find other pictures/framing in the original scene.


Now most funny is that if you ask if Pentax pixel shift is good, many will say yes while it apply only to still shooting on a tripod while this 50MP sensor would work on all photos you take.

Do I care myself: I would if it was for APSC at a better price without reducing high iso performance too much. That would give more crop possibilities and allow to keep my kit small.
07-24-2015, 07:01 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
There are plenty of people still getting great results from the 6 megapixel K100D:

Just today I was looking at some of the photos I took with my k100dS and it made me appreciate that camera all over again. I still have it, though I mostly use the K5 now, for its features and high iso capability. I have thought it would be interesting to develop a new 6 mp APSC sensor with great high iso capability and no AA filter. But of course there are many reasons why that would not occur. The 6 mp of the k100dS was plenty for the vast majority of my shots.
07-24-2015, 07:30 PM   #113
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I've always favored the 6.1mp CCD. Even over the 10.2 successor. I have better results with the 16.3 CMOS when I disable most of the features and shoot in "natural" color vs. the defaulted "bright". With that 6.1 CCD I'm able to stretch colors farther and they look less plastic to me.

Had CMOS not taken over we could all be using 40mp CCDs right now... From my understanding their greatest limitation was the output channels to the memory buffer. CMOS is way faster(and cheaper) in that regard.

07-24-2015, 07:44 PM   #114
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I got an 8mg pixel camera that I still use because I love the color rendering, but if you blow up the images past a certain point, you start running into the jaggiez. With a higher resolution camera you can go on and on when it comes to blowing up an image, but for an 8x10/11x14 prints, or online posting 8mg is plenty.
07-24-2015, 09:18 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So why do some people think that 50 megapixels for the next FF camera is a great idea?
Because "adequate" is anathema to a capitalistic economic system.

See EXIF.....

Last edited by wildman; 07-30-2015 at 04:07 AM.
07-25-2015, 02:53 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Because "adequate" is anathema to a capitalistic economic system.

See EXIF.....
That is a good image, and made with a very old camera, also it maybe was new at the time of making the image.


Photography is so populair for some time and there are so many great images online that people for get that taking good images is still a Job done that taken stille and then some Lucky for the exceptionele shot. It doesn't take 50 MP to do that.
07-25-2015, 03:15 AM   #117
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In general, there is nothing hurt by having more megapixels, except for memory/need for faster processors. I would say that you eventually reach a place where there is less benefit. There is some improvement in resolution between a K5 IIs and a K3, but it is not visible in many photos, due to less than ideal circumstances -- higher iso, camera shake, etc. If you bumped resolution in an APS-C camera to 60 megapixels, I wonder how much really improvement in detail you would see? I think less than many people would expect.
07-25-2015, 05:36 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If you bumped resolution in an APS-C camera to 60 megapixels, I wonder how much really improvement in detail you would see? I think less than many people would expect.
Well small pixels you get, 2,5 micron. In my Sony Xperia the pixels are 1,12 micron, so on aps-c you would get 291 megapixels.

With 60 MP I guess that you have to work on iso 100 and you will get much more detail in images. As long as you print them large enough.

My Sony Xperia works on iso 40 as base setting and still has noise in it.
07-25-2015, 08:07 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
there is nothing hurt by having more megapixels
There can be if there is misplaced priorities.

I was fine with the resolution of the K20 but not it's high ISO performance which is pretty much exactly what Pentax addressed with the K20 to the K5 - better ISO performance.
In other words improve ISO performance not resolution. Give me a two stop increase in ISO performance not a 40mp sensor.
A 50mp sensor has little to do with photography and almost everything to do with marketing.

Without comment:
EXIF from orignal file (these posted files no longer have any EXIF data)-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)

[Overview]
File name: Y:\DOWNLOAD\Post\Birds\ORIOLE\Oriole Baltimore 085.JPG
File type: JPEG
File size: 11,803.2KB
Creation date: 7/14/2008 13:35
Last modification: 7/14/2008 14:35
Make: PENTAX Corporation (Global Network | RICOH IMAGING)
Camera: PENTAX K20D
Lens: M-42 or No Lens
Software: K20D Ver 1.00
Dimension: 4672 x 3104px(14.5 MP, 3:2)
Exposure time: 1/320"
ISO speed rating: 800/30
Program: Aperture Priority (Off-Auto-Aperture)
Metering Mode: Center-weighted average
White Balance: User-Selected
Focus Mode: Manual
Image Stabilizer: not ready
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Full frame and 100% crop

Last edited by wildman; 07-29-2015 at 08:38 AM.
07-25-2015, 08:44 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
There can be if there is misplaced priorities.

I was fine with the resolution of the K20 but not it's high ISO performance which is pretty much exactly what Pentax addressed with the K20 to the K5 - better ISO performance.
In other words improve ISO performance not resolution. Give me a two stop increase in ISO performance not a 40mp sensor.
A 50mp sensor has little to do with photography and almost everything to do with marketing.

Without comment:
EXIF from orignal file (these posted files no longer have any EXIF data)-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)

[Overview]
File name: Y:\DOWNLOAD\Post\Birds\ORIOLE\Oriole Baltimore 085.JPG
File type: JPEG
File size: 11,803.2KB
Creation date: 7/14/2008 13:35
Last modification: 7/14/2008 14:35
Make: PENTAX Corporation (Global Network | RICOH IMAGING)
Camera: PENTAX K20D
Lens: M-42 or No Lens
Software: K20D Ver 1.00
Dimension: 4672 x 3104px(14.5 MP, 3:2)
Exposure time: 1/320"
ISO speed rating: 800/30
Program: Aperture Priority (Off-Auto-Aperture)
Metering Mode: Center-weighted average
White Balance: User-Selected
Focus Mode: Manual
Image Stabilizer: not ready
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Full frame and 100% crop
I think the point is that these aren't either or. The Samsung sensors really did suffer compared to newer generation Sony sensors with regard to both noise and dynamic range. There was a huge improvement when I went from k7 to a K5, even though the number of megapixels increased as well. The D810 measures to have better dynamic range and equivalent SNR than the D610, despite having more megapixels and it tests better in dynamic range below iso 6400 than the A7s.
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