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06-04-2008, 04:20 AM   #1
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Shake reduction and the use of a tripod

I presently use a *ist DL with astro scopes on a tripod for wildlife photos. These scopes range in FL from 500-1000mm. I also use the Pentax 100mm spotter (620mm fl) with the CA-35 DSLR camera adapter. I do not use coventional telephoto lens' for this purpose.

Recently I have been thinking of upgrading to the K20D. However on page 66 of the K20D user manual it states:

"Caution: Be sure to turn off the Shake Reduction switch when using the camera with a tripod."

Considering the extreme FL and magnifications with my gear and thus the necessity of using a tripod, is it true that shake reduction will be of no use to me given my setup?

If so why would this be?

thanks

06-07-2008, 10:18 AM   #2
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The rational is this, if your tripod is sturdy enough to hold your equiptment steady for the shot, then the internal adjustments made by the SR mechanism will actually introduce 'shake' to the camera during exposure. You may have to test that out on your own and see how that holds up for you. I don't go past 300mm so it holds true for me.
06-07-2008, 04:19 PM   #3
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I've heard that as well, and I can confirm the principle of this issue from personal experience -- although not with a Pentax or other DSLR.

Last year in Miami -- at Winter Music Conference -- I took a bunch of video of my two favorite DJs (Sasha & John Digweed) with a Casio point-and-shoot (Exilim EX-Z850). It's a great camera, and I thought my videos would be amazing -- precisely because I was able to reach up, set the camera on top of a pillar and let it run. It turns out that all the blinking lights, etc caused the anti-shake feature to constantly try to remove the non-existent "shake," and my videos were disappointing.

Fast forward almost exactly 1 year, and I found myself standing in the exact same spot watching the same two DJs. This time, I turned the anti-shake off, and the video was amazing. Part of that can definitely be attributed to the different camera I used this year (Canon PowerShot SD870), but I know that turning off the anti-shake was key as well. In case you care, I have a clip from this year here on youtube. I also have some shots of the Sasha & Digweed yacht party in Miami here, and from their show @ House of Blues (Chicago) here.

Cheers,

-J
06-07-2008, 04:39 PM   #4
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Wildman, what Buddha says makes good sense and is supported by Pentax with their decision (pp, 66 & 124 of manual) to automatically shut off Shake Reduction whenever the camera is in the self-timer mode.

There is no need to try and reduce shake in the camera when it is in a tri-pod, because the tri-pod does this. Also, why waste the power of running the Shake Reduction for nothing. It could be compared to turning on the street lights, at 12:00 noon, in sunny California.


Regards,

Ernest


"Humanity subdues inhumanity as water subdues fire."

Mencius 6A:18 __________________________________________________

06-07-2008, 07:19 PM   #5
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All that being said you may very well need the SR for your setup. Only one way to find out though.
06-07-2008, 08:39 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by jasonwarth Quote
a Casio point-and-shoot (Exilim EX-Z850). It's a great camera, and I thought my videos would be amazing -- precisely because I was able to reach up, set the camera on top of a pillar and let it run. It turns out that all the blinking lights, etc caused the anti-shake feature to constantly try to remove the non-existent "shake," and my videos were disappointing.
I'm pretty sure there is no anti-shake mechanism in he Exilim cameras, I think they just boost the heck out of the ISO to keep the shutter speed high and apply a lot of noise reduction to blur out the noise.
That noise reduction blur would be the reason for the poor results.
06-07-2008, 08:45 PM   #7
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never did quite understand the principle of turning off the sr when camera is mounted to a tripod
sr is suppose to remove any shaking......right
when you press the shutter with your finger they will be some kind of movement.....right
legs of a tripod will be enduring some kind of vibration either from the floor, part of your body touching it , wind, etc........right
if you hold your breath, stand sturdy do every thing right when you are taking a picture (you are at that point in time in life of replacing a tripod manually , cause you are as steady as a rock ), does the sr feature kicks in and ruin your shot ???
when is SR really useful

Dave
06-07-2008, 09:06 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
never did quite understand the principle of turning off the sr when camera is mounted to a tripod
sr is suppose to remove any shaking......right
when you press the shutter with your finger they will be some kind of movement.....right
legs of a tripod will be enduring some kind of vibration either from the floor, part of your body touching it , wind, etc........right
if you hold your breath, stand sturdy do every thing right when you are taking a picture (you are at that point in time in life of replacing a tripod manually , cause you are as steady as a rock ), does the sr feature kicks in and ruin your shot ???
when is SR really useful

Dave
Two things:

1) You can never stand and hold as steady as a tripod.
2) The "SR" feature is designed to counter rather large movements (relatively speaking) A slight breeze or you very carefully pushing the shutter (really you should use a remote shutter release or the timer when mounted on a tripod....always.) or the minute vibrations from the floor are not what it's designed for. When mounted on a tripod if the SR function is left on it can and most likely will introduce movement. When it's on it's sort of "looking for movement to counter".....if there is none it still could affect the shot simply by attempting to counter movement that isn't there......so to speak.

06-08-2008, 04:56 AM   #9
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I have had ruined pictures because I left the SR on for tripod and monopod shots. You can do what the manual recommends or learn the hard way.
06-08-2008, 05:43 AM   #10
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Holy crap! Your camera looks like a howitzer.

c[_]
06-08-2008, 08:45 AM   #11
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wildman: i think you gave your own answer, it's the magnifications you deal with that are the problem, even the tiniest vibrations will seem large. The SR tops out at 800mm on my K20D, so even if there were movements it could compensate for, your lenses are outside of that realm.

But since i don't know for sure, i will be eagerly waiting for your report of yoursetup+K20D, i'd love to be wrong. I'd so getting me some scope and adapter if it worked.
06-08-2008, 11:19 AM   #12
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Check out some experiment with SR "on" and "off" at:
PentaxUser.co.uk :: View topic - A closer look at Shake Reduction on the K10D
06-08-2008, 01:32 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by morfic Quote
wildman: i think you gave your own answer, it's the magnifications you deal with that are the problem, even the tiniest vibrations will seem large. The SR tops out at 800mm on my K20D, so even if there were movements it could compensate for, your lenses are outside of that realm.

But since i don't know for sure, i will be eagerly waiting for your report of yoursetup+K20D, i'd love to be wrong. I'd so getting me some scope and adapter if it worked.

I don't want to give the impression that the reason I'm buying the K20D is for the sake of SR. Far from it. But I was wondering if it would give me any benefit given my shooting style. Actually the true pentaprism viewfinder is perhaps the single most important feature. Remember all of my shots are taken through rather dim high power scopes using manual focus. I also expect the high resolution will give me the ability to get better high quality crops also.

Also my present setup often works quite well even at very high magnifications. For instance the following were all taken with the 1000mm barlowed out to 2000mm (60x). But of course at these powers you take a lot of junk also.

Most of these pics were take at about 60-120 (except for the eagle which was at about 300 feet) distance of small passerines at aprox 60x. Of course they are highly compressed so don't take the quality too seriously.

Last edited by wildman; 06-28-2008 at 11:56 PM.
06-08-2008, 01:44 PM   #14
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Along with the K20, my little "advanced" P & S Canon S3 with IS & 12x zoom also automatically shuts the image stabilization off when camera uses the self-timer. This thread is interesting, because even the more expensive "VR" which Nikon uses in their lenses is also best shut off on a tri-pod.

VR on or off on tripod - Forums Main Page


Regards,

Ernest


"Humanity subdues inhumanity as water subdues fire."

Mencius 6A:18.
06-08-2008, 04:32 PM   #15
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Wildman, love your setup and pics.

I've just had a quick perusal around the nets. While i can't find definitive reports for Canon and Nikon IS/VR (By definitive, i'm looking for their manuals), Olympus also actually state in their manual that you should turn off Stabilisation if tripod mounted. Sony don't say much about their Super SteadyShot.

I get the feeling that SR and the like were designed for handheld, not super-insane-telephoto
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