Choices

IchabodCrane · 03-30-2015, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by PhotoHeron

I have had a Nikon DSLR in the past. Currently just using a Canon powerzoom point and shot.. I do not use my smartphone for pictures. I have still my Pentax Super m film camera, which I used for years..

One of the best features of Pentax DSLRs is the weather resistance. I would advise you go with the K-50 because of that.

Stavri · 03-30-2015, 01:19 PM

+1 for two wheels. I once picked up my friends Nikon D5100 taking it off the Auto mode trying to take a portrait in low light, struggling to find the aperture and shutter wheels which are indispensable to me in Pentax bodies. I couldn't make sense of the camera, its button layout was so foreign to me that after a minute of fidgeting I put it down in frustration.

emalvick · 03-30-2015, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

Most settings are for function rather than creativity - such as 1/3 or 1/2 steps for ISO adjustment...

Shutter, aperture, ISO, lens, composition. That is your creativity.

Definitely...

When one moves to a dSLR (or uses one), the creativity is about how you use aperture and shutter speed. Any creativity beyond that really comes in the post-processing phase, which is a whole other challenge for a photographer.

**Des** · 03-30-2015, 04:04 PM

Lots of useful comments already.

Seems to be one more key question: is the 20mp sensor in the K-S1 and K-S2 significantly better than the 16mp sensor in the K-5/K-30/K-50? Indications seem to be yes, especially in good light:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/184-pentax-k-s1-k-s2/283229-comparison-be...k-50-k-s1.html @THoog's summary: "My conclusion was ... that the K-S1 has more detail in good light. In poor light, it has more noise, but it's of the luminance variety, and fairly easy to clean up without loss of detail."

Pentax K-S1 Review - Image Quality | PentaxForums.com Reviews - "Compared to 16-megapixel Pentax K-50, the K-S1 is a considerable upgrade in terms of image quality. Thanks to a higher resolution and lack of a low-pass filter images will be sharper and details will be clearer, giving you more room to crop when needed."

Might be less difference from the K5iis (14-bit RAW, no AA filter).

TaoMaas · 03-30-2015, 05:08 PM

I don't know that it matters all that much if you're worried about growth as a photographer because the primary differences are in form-factor. They're both very capable cameras.

**mtngal** · 03-30-2015, 05:45 PM

I found going from 2 wheels to 1 wasn't all that much of an adjustment. Ergonomics was the biggest thing for me looking at the K-S1 in the first place and is the reason I'm thinking of selling my "back-up" camera, a K3. I can no longer shoot with it for very long. I don't use heavy lenses any more due to physical limitations. For me the S1 does everything I want it to, I haven't missed the extra features the K3 has, except the weather sealing occasionally. The IQ differences between the S1 and K3 aren't huge, just a difference in number of pixels.

Bagga_Txips · 03-30-2015, 06:55 PM

I think it is worth repeating something I have said before - if you are not wholly familiar with your K3, K5, K50 etc, the fact that the K-S1 uses only one wheel can be looked on as an advantage rather than a problem. I use Tav most of the time, and tend to choose which parameter will stay almost-fixed ( speed or aperture) and the K-S1 rear screen tells me which one is the variable that is currently adjustable using the single wheel. With my K-5 I frequently have to test both wheels to see which one does what, set one of them BACK to my chosen fixed parameter, then adjust the other to get a favoured ISO. The K-S1 reduces my novice-level confusion, and switching from one parameter choice to the other is a simple, single button press. So, for me, the K-S1 is better in this regard.

Ergonomics with a portable object is not just a case of liking the feel of the handle. Or grip. The K-S1 is amazingly light, about the same weight as the K-01. Splendid. The grip is not as comfortable as the K-5, maybe, but it is perfectly adequate, and has the benefit in many cases of encouraging you to support the lens with your left hand, which is actually a good thing for many reasons.

I really like my K-S1, and I wouldn't mind having 2 - one with a DA21 and another with a 100WR mounted.

**Des** · 03-30-2015, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by mtngal

The IQ differences between the S1 and K3 aren't huge, just a difference in number of pixels.

That is pretty much the conclusion in the PF in-depth review of the K-S1. Which makes it great value at less than half the price of the K-3, if you can live without the two wheels, WR and other features.

Nicolas06 · 03-31-2015, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Bagga_Txips

I think it is worth repeating something I have said before - if you are not wholly familiar with your K3, K5, K50 etc, the fact that the K-S1 uses only one wheel can be looked on as an advantage rather than a problem. I use Tav most of the time, and tend to choose which parameter will stay almost-fixed ( speed or aperture) and the K-S1 rear screen tells me which one is the variable that is currently adjustable using the single wheel. With my K-5 I frequently have to test both wheels to see which one does what, set one of them BACK to my chosen fixed parameter, then adjust the other to get a favoured ISO. The K-S1 reduces my novice-level confusion, and switching from one parameter choice to the other is a simple, single button press. So, for me, the K-S1 is better in this regard.

Ergonomics with a portable object is not just a case of liking the feel of the handle. Or grip. The K-S1 is amazingly light, about the same weight as the K-01. Splendid. The grip is not as comfortable as the K-5, maybe, but it is perfectly adequate, and has the benefit in many cases of encouraging you to support the lens with your left hand, which is actually a good thing for many reasons.

I really like my K-S1, and I wouldn't mind having 2 - one with a DA21 and another with a 100WR mounted.

yeah but the question was not what is the best camera to begin with, but the one one could grow the more with

This is not exactly the same.

One of the settings that allow one to make the fastest growth is M mode as your are forced to always check the parameters, correct them and think of the best compromize.

I think 2 wheels is really helpfull then. I also think that if you take the time to configure your camera so that this is always the same wheel that control apperture and always the same wheel that control shutter speed in all modes (P, Av, Tv, TAv, M...) it should become automatic after some time.

In the end while I understand your issue, I wonder if this issue would be universal or if it more like some user would have exactly the opposite issue, difficulty to remember on what button to press to change a given setting and to remember the one setting that doesn't need button because it is the currently selected one.

For me I really love to control apperture with one wheel and iso with the other wheel.

PhotoHeron · 03-31-2015, 01:37 PM

The discussion is about two wheels vs one wheel. Explain the advantages of dual wheels vs a single wheel or disadvantages.

robthebloke · 03-31-2015, 02:01 PM

I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one.

**mattb123** · 03-31-2015, 02:59 PM

Two wheels lets you have two adjustments (most often aperture and exposure) ready to change at your fingertips. For a single wheel camera you need to push another button to change what the wheel does to adjust both aperture and exposure.

Two wheels is nice but I did fine on my single wheel K-x for a long time.

I'd pick the K-50 given this choice mostly for WR, but dual wheels is nice too. If it was the KS-2 it would be a harder decision for me with the tilting screen and WR.

IchabodCrane · 03-31-2015, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by robthebloke

I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one.

I've not seen an definitive claim for improved image quality of the K-S1 over the K-30/50.

Nicolas06 · 03-31-2015, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by robthebloke

I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one.

In 20 years as of today the picture would still be interresting only if:
- It remind you of something you have seen or did.
- if the picture is so great that is recognized as Art and shown in galeries etc...

Then I don't see the "16MP" only being such an issue. More than 10MP is for cropping or full walls prints counting that the people looking at it will actually go near and stare at the details of the picture. Anyway showing as big difference 16 vs 20 when in 20 years the standard may very well be more 200MP that's a bit funny.

And if the picture is neither truely great and doesn't remind you especially of something, this value is almost non existant... You may keep it because you took it yourself, you are proud, but that end there.

Nicolas06 · 03-31-2015, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by PhotoHeron

The discussion is about two wheels vs one wheel. Explain the advantages of dual wheels vs a single wheel or disadvantages.

When taking a picture you decide on lot of things. Framing, when to take the photos etc.

But on the the camera you set the apperture, you set the shutter speed, you set the exposure and you set the isos.

Technically, if you set 3 of theses parameters, the last can only be deduced from the other 3.

So you have really 3 things to think of. So even with 2 wheels, you might need to use some button or menu to control the third parameter.

Most of the time through, you can reduce futher reduce the parameters you are really interrested into. You really keep 1 or 2 parameters to work on.

Having 2 wheels give you direct access to control 2 parameters on all modes. You can configure what the wheels does on all theses modes and different for each if you feel so. Wheels can change the apperture, shutter speed, isos, exposure, change the hyper program priority or can even be disabled (at least 1). I think there even a few things more you can do.

Having 1 wheel force you either to go through a menu or use your wheel in combination with a button to change the setting. This take a bit more time, is a bit less practical and this is bit more cumbersome.

If you plan to stay always on mostly automatic mode, this is of no importance... if you want to control what you do, this is real comfort. In TAv or M mode, this is a must. Even on Av or Tv, changing the iso with the second wheel directly is really practical.

But it depend really how advanced you intend to be with your camera... so how much you want to grow your practice with it.

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03-30-2015, 08:15 AM	#16
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by PhotoHeron I have had a Nikon DSLR in the past. Currently just using a Canon powerzoom point and shot.. I do not use my smartphone for pictures. I have still my Pentax Super m film camera, which I used for years.. One of the best features of Pentax DSLRs is the weather resistance. I would advise you go with the K-50 because of that.

03-30-2015, 01:19 PM	#17
Stavri Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: at a Bean & Leaf Photos: Albums Posts: 1,832	+1 for two wheels. I once picked up my friends Nikon D5100 taking it off the Auto mode trying to take a portrait in low light, struggling to find the aperture and shutter wheels which are indispensable to me in Pentax bodies. I couldn't make sense of the camera, its button layout was so foreign to me that after a minute of fidgeting I put it down in frustration.

03-30-2015, 02:01 PM	#18
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by SpecialK Most settings are for function rather than creativity - such as 1/3 or 1/2 steps for ISO adjustment... Shutter, aperture, ISO, lens, composition. That is your creativity. Definitely... When one moves to a dSLR (or uses one), the creativity is about how you use aperture and shutter speed. Any creativity beyond that really comes in the post-processing phase, which is a whole other challenge for a photographer.

03-30-2015, 04:04 PM	#19
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,423	Lots of useful comments already. Seems to be one more key question: is the 20mp sensor in the K-S1 and K-S2 significantly better than the 16mp sensor in the K-5/K-30/K-50? Indications seem to be yes, especially in good light: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/184-pentax-k-s1-k-s2/283229-comparison-be...k-50-k-s1.html @THoog's summary: "My conclusion was ... that the K-S1 has more detail in good light. In poor light, it has more noise, but it's of the luminance variety, and fairly easy to clean up without loss of detail." Pentax K-S1 Review - Image Quality \| PentaxForums.com Reviews - "Compared to 16-megapixel Pentax K-50, the K-S1 is a considerable upgrade in terms of image quality. Thanks to a higher resolution and lack of a low-pass filter images will be sharper and details will be clearer, giving you more room to crop when needed." Might be less difference from the K5iis (14-bit RAW, no AA filter).

03-30-2015, 05:08 PM	#20
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	I don't know that it matters all that much if you're worried about growth as a photographer because the primary differences are in form-factor. They're both very capable cameras.

03-30-2015, 05:45 PM	#21
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	I found going from 2 wheels to 1 wasn't all that much of an adjustment. Ergonomics was the biggest thing for me looking at the K-S1 in the first place and is the reason I'm thinking of selling my "back-up" camera, a K3. I can no longer shoot with it for very long. I don't use heavy lenses any more due to physical limitations. For me the S1 does everything I want it to, I haven't missed the extra features the K3 has, except the weather sealing occasionally. The IQ differences between the S1 and K3 aren't huge, just a difference in number of pixels.

03-30-2015, 06:55 PM	#22
Bagga_Txips Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Waterford Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 454	I think it is worth repeating something I have said before - if you are not wholly familiar with your K3, K5, K50 etc, the fact that the K-S1 uses only one wheel can be looked on as an advantage rather than a problem. I use Tav most of the time, and tend to choose which parameter will stay almost-fixed ( speed or aperture) and the K-S1 rear screen tells me which one is the variable that is currently adjustable using the single wheel. With my K-5 I frequently have to test both wheels to see which one does what, set one of them BACK to my chosen fixed parameter, then adjust the other to get a favoured ISO. The K-S1 reduces my novice-level confusion, and switching from one parameter choice to the other is a simple, single button press. So, for me, the K-S1 is better in this regard. Ergonomics with a portable object is not just a case of liking the feel of the handle. Or grip. The K-S1 is amazingly light, about the same weight as the K-01. Splendid. The grip is not as comfortable as the K-5, maybe, but it is perfectly adequate, and has the benefit in many cases of encouraging you to support the lens with your left hand, which is actually a good thing for many reasons. I really like my K-S1, and I wouldn't mind having 2 - one with a DA21 and another with a 100WR mounted.

03-30-2015, 09:07 PM	#23
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,423	Originally posted by mtngal The IQ differences between the S1 and K3 aren't huge, just a difference in number of pixels. That is pretty much the conclusion in the PF in-depth review of the K-S1. Which makes it great value at less than half the price of the K-3, if you can live without the two wheels, WR and other features.

03-31-2015, 12:48 PM	#24
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Bagga_Txips I think it is worth repeating something I have said before - if you are not wholly familiar with your K3, K5, K50 etc, the fact that the K-S1 uses only one wheel can be looked on as an advantage rather than a problem. I use Tav most of the time, and tend to choose which parameter will stay almost-fixed ( speed or aperture) and the K-S1 rear screen tells me which one is the variable that is currently adjustable using the single wheel. With my K-5 I frequently have to test both wheels to see which one does what, set one of them BACK to my chosen fixed parameter, then adjust the other to get a favoured ISO. The K-S1 reduces my novice-level confusion, and switching from one parameter choice to the other is a simple, single button press. So, for me, the K-S1 is better in this regard. Ergonomics with a portable object is not just a case of liking the feel of the handle. Or grip. The K-S1 is amazingly light, about the same weight as the K-01. Splendid. The grip is not as comfortable as the K-5, maybe, but it is perfectly adequate, and has the benefit in many cases of encouraging you to support the lens with your left hand, which is actually a good thing for many reasons. I really like my K-S1, and I wouldn't mind having 2 - one with a DA21 and another with a 100WR mounted. yeah but the question was not what is the best camera to begin with, but the one one could grow the more with This is not exactly the same. One of the settings that allow one to make the fastest growth is M mode as your are forced to always check the parameters, correct them and think of the best compromize. I think 2 wheels is really helpfull then. I also think that if you take the time to configure your camera so that this is always the same wheel that control apperture and always the same wheel that control shutter speed in all modes (P, Av, Tv, TAv, M...) it should become automatic after some time. In the end while I understand your issue, I wonder if this issue would be universal or if it more like some user would have exactly the opposite issue, difficulty to remember on what button to press to change a given setting and to remember the one setting that doesn't need button because it is the currently selected one. For me I really love to control apperture with one wheel and iso with the other wheel.

03-31-2015, 01:37 PM	#25
PhotoHeron Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas Posts: 90 Original Poster	The discussion is about two wheels vs one wheel. Explain the advantages of dual wheels vs a single wheel or disadvantages.

03-31-2015, 02:01 PM	#26
robthebloke Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 844	I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one.

03-31-2015, 02:59 PM	#27
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872	Two wheels lets you have two adjustments (most often aperture and exposure) ready to change at your fingertips. For a single wheel camera you need to push another button to change what the wheel does to adjust both aperture and exposure. Two wheels is nice but I did fine on my single wheel K-x for a long time. I'd pick the K-50 given this choice mostly for WR, but dual wheels is nice too. If it was the KS-2 it would be a harder decision for me with the tilting screen and WR.

03-31-2015, 03:10 PM	#28
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by robthebloke I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one. I've not seen an definitive claim for improved image quality of the K-S1 over the K-30/50.

03-31-2015, 03:55 PM	#29
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by robthebloke I'd go for the k-s1 for the improved image quality alone. The pictures you take will outlive the camera, and in twenty years time, no one will care if you had two wheels or one. In 20 years as of today the picture would still be interresting only if: - It remind you of something you have seen or did. - if the picture is so great that is recognized as Art and shown in galeries etc... Then I don't see the "16MP" only being such an issue. More than 10MP is for cropping or full walls prints counting that the people looking at it will actually go near and stare at the details of the picture. Anyway showing as big difference 16 vs 20 when in 20 years the standard may very well be more 200MP that's a bit funny. And if the picture is neither truely great and doesn't remind you especially of something, this value is almost non existant... You may keep it because you took it yourself, you are proud, but that end there.

03-31-2015, 04:12 PM	#30
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by PhotoHeron The discussion is about two wheels vs one wheel. Explain the advantages of dual wheels vs a single wheel or disadvantages. When taking a picture you decide on lot of things. Framing, when to take the photos etc. But on the the camera you set the apperture, you set the shutter speed, you set the exposure and you set the isos. Technically, if you set 3 of theses parameters, the last can only be deduced from the other 3. So you have really 3 things to think of. So even with 2 wheels, you might need to use some button or menu to control the third parameter. Most of the time through, you can reduce futher reduce the parameters you are really interrested into. You really keep 1 or 2 parameters to work on. Having 2 wheels give you direct access to control 2 parameters on all modes. You can configure what the wheels does on all theses modes and different for each if you feel so. Wheels can change the apperture, shutter speed, isos, exposure, change the hyper program priority or can even be disabled (at least 1). I think there even a few things more you can do. Having 1 wheel force you either to go through a menu or use your wheel in combination with a button to change the setting. This take a bit more time, is a bit less practical and this is bit more cumbersome. If you plan to stay always on mostly automatic mode, this is of no importance... if you want to control what you do, this is real comfort. In TAv or M mode, this is a must. Even on Av or Tv, changing the iso with the second wheel directly is really practical. But it depend really how advanced you intend to be with your camera... so how much you want to grow your practice with it.