Pixel Shifting Samples from Pentax on the K3II

Gimbal · 04-24-2015, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I'm eager to compare a 4 x16bits TIFF stacked and sharpened image from K-3, with a K-3II pixel shift photo in the same conditions (same lens, lighting etc..). This does not make the K-3II "pixel shift" unattractive, the advantage of the K-3 II is that you have the sharper image already boiled for you, hopefully available in raw. I look forward to do a comparison.

With PS every single pixel will be exposed through the red, green and blue filter, while stacking four identical pictures will only get you the same interpolated color times four. That surely cannot be the same thing?

**dadipentak** · 04-24-2015, 06:26 AM

Well, Verizon is still working on the download--can I get back to you in a week or so?

JinDesu · 04-24-2015, 06:38 AM

Sampling four TIFF images without any pixel shifting would reduce noise and improve clarity of the resultant image, but the clarity would not be improved to the degree of the pixel shifted ones.

The noise is random in each image, so sampling four images will generally reduce the noise in the final image by the same amount in both cases. The improvement of the image clarity in sampling four static images is that the edges that were blurred by either the AA filter (due to the bayer sensor) or blurred by interpolation of the individual pixels could be sharpened by having more information from each of the images. With four stacked pixel shifted images, however, this guarantees that all the information in those edges are captured and no interpolation is needed.

To achieve the same, I think you need something like 16 stacked images (well someone else do the math =p) to guarantee capture of all four colors in the same location.

noser · 04-24-2015, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by max_pyne

i just thought about the 645Z, if they couple these tech with the 50mp...

Or the upcoming FF - the pixel pitch is the same, right?

CarlJF · 04-24-2015, 07:10 AM

The real test to the value of PS will be when we'll see the same picture with and without PS. But the actual picture really look good!

ChristianRock · 04-24-2015, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by CarlJF

The real test to the value of PS will be when we'll see the same picture with and without PS. But the actual picture really look good!

I take it you've seen this?

JimmyDranox · 04-24-2015, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

We don't know yet if there is an electronic shutter taking place or still mechanical...

We know that is electronic shutter between images taken with pixel shift. Is in the features pages on Ricoh site.

traderdrew · 04-24-2015, 08:02 AM

I wonder if dxomark.com will post test scores of this camera with pixel shifting on along with the other scores.

biz-engineer · 04-24-2015, 08:45 AM

I've just done a trial here, comparing 100% crops of 2 images: 1 image single shot sharpened, 1 image 4 x stacked shots + sharpened by the same amount, does not recover lost details. Lets see what the K-3II can do.

Scobra · 04-24-2015, 09:05 AM

Im hoping the next feature they incorporate is in-camera anti-ghosting. There seems to be unlimited room for software advances. For those who dont yet have the K3II, you could try this method A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop

stevebrot · 04-24-2015, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I've just done a trial here, comparing 100% crops of 2 images: 1 image single shot sharpened, 1 image 4 x stacked shots + sharpened by the same amount, does not recover lost details. Lets see what the K-3II can do.

Originally posted by Scobra

Im hoping the next feature they incorporate is in-camera anti-ghosting. There seems to be unlimited room for software advances. For those who dont yet have the K3II, you could try this method A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop

Am I correct in assuming that is what biz-engineer has done in his example above?

Steve

sunshine7913 · 04-24-2015, 09:28 AM

Wow are those really captured from Crop sensor camera? Nice sharpness and color.

JimmyDranox · 04-24-2015, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Am I correct in assuming that is what biz-engineer has done in his example above?

Steve

I think is not the same thing. Biz-engineer has stacked 4 images that are strictly the same. PS is changing the colored pixels position for every shot. and the results are different. There are already new threads about that.

**jpzk** · 04-24-2015, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by zmohie

From what I understand that the work way of SR and tripod
is opposite so if I want to use the feature I have to turn the SR /ON/ and at the same time I have to put the camera on a tripod.how will this be working properly!

Originally posted by Alizarine

The pixel-shift technology uses the SR mechanism to do its increase-dynamic-range thing. The 645Z's sensor doesn't have SR, so even with a firmware upgrade it isn't possible with the 645D/Z

So, if you are using the tripod for a shot that does not require (or you just don't want to) "PS", the SR should be OFF, as usual.
If you want to use PS, then you leave the SR "ON" ?

JP

stevebrot · 04-24-2015, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

So, if you are using the tripod for a shot that does not require (or you just don't want to) "PS", the SR should be OFF, as usual.
If you want to use PS, then you leave the SR "ON" ?

Just a second...I will look it up in the camera manual...

Oops! No manual! Silly me!

Steve

04-24-2015, 08:45 AM	#39
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	I've just done a trial here, comparing 100% crops of 2 images: 1 image single shot sharpened, 1 image 4 x stacked shots + sharpened by the same amount, does not recover lost details. Lets see what the K-3II can do. Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-02-2015 at 06:40 AM.

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04-24-2015, 06:25 AM	#31
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by biz-engineer I'm eager to compare a 4 x16bits TIFF stacked and sharpened image from K-3, with a K-3II pixel shift photo in the same conditions (same lens, lighting etc..). This does not make the K-3II "pixel shift" unattractive, the advantage of the K-3 II is that you have the sharper image already boiled for you, hopefully available in raw. I look forward to do a comparison. With PS every single pixel will be exposed through the red, green and blue filter, while stacking four identical pictures will only get you the same interpolated color times four. That surely cannot be the same thing?

04-24-2015, 06:26 AM	#32
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Well, Verizon is still working on the download--can I get back to you in a week or so?

04-24-2015, 06:38 AM	#33
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Sampling four TIFF images without any pixel shifting would reduce noise and improve clarity of the resultant image, but the clarity would not be improved to the degree of the pixel shifted ones. The noise is random in each image, so sampling four images will generally reduce the noise in the final image by the same amount in both cases. The improvement of the image clarity in sampling four static images is that the edges that were blurred by either the AA filter (due to the bayer sensor) or blurred by interpolation of the individual pixels could be sharpened by having more information from each of the images. With four stacked pixel shifted images, however, this guarantees that all the information in those edges are captured and no interpolation is needed. To achieve the same, I think you need something like 16 stacked images (well someone else do the math =p) to guarantee capture of all four colors in the same location.

04-24-2015, 07:02 AM	#34
noser Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Calgary, AB CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Originally posted by max_pyne i just thought about the 645Z, if they couple these tech with the 50mp... Or the upcoming FF - the pixel pitch is the same, right?

04-24-2015, 07:10 AM	#35
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	The real test to the value of PS will be when we'll see the same picture with and without PS. But the actual picture really look good!

04-24-2015, 07:42 AM	#36
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by CarlJF The real test to the value of PS will be when we'll see the same picture with and without PS. But the actual picture really look good! I take it you've seen this?

04-24-2015, 07:43 AM	#37
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Originally posted by biz-engineer We don't know yet if there is an electronic shutter taking place or still mechanical... We know that is electronic shutter between images taken with pixel shift. Is in the features pages on Ricoh site.

04-24-2015, 08:02 AM	#38
traderdrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 639	I wonder if dxomark.com will post test scores of this camera with pixel shifting on along with the other scores.

04-24-2015, 09:05 AM	#40
Scobra Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 56	Im hoping the next feature they incorporate is in-camera anti-ghosting. There seems to be unlimited room for software advances. For those who dont yet have the K3II, you could try this method A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop

04-24-2015, 09:14 AM	#41
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by biz-engineer I've just done a trial here, comparing 100% crops of 2 images: 1 image single shot sharpened, 1 image 4 x stacked shots + sharpened by the same amount, does not recover lost details. Lets see what the K-3II can do. Originally posted by Scobra Im hoping the next feature they incorporate is in-camera anti-ghosting. There seems to be unlimited room for software advances. For those who dont yet have the K3II, you could try this method A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop Am I correct in assuming that is what biz-engineer has done in his example above? Steve

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04-24-2015, 09:28 AM	#42
sunshine7913 Guest	Wow are those really captured from Crop sensor camera? Nice sharpness and color.

04-24-2015, 09:33 AM	#43
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Originally posted by stevebrot Am I correct in assuming that is what biz-engineer has done in his example above? Steve I think is not the same thing. Biz-engineer has stacked 4 images that are strictly the same. PS is changing the colored pixels position for every shot. and the results are different. There are already new threads about that.

04-24-2015, 09:49 AM	#44
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by zmohie From what I understand that the work way of SR and tripod is opposite so if I want to use the feature I have to turn the SR /ON/ and at the same time I have to put the camera on a tripod.how will this be working properly! Originally posted by Alizarine The pixel-shift technology uses the SR mechanism to do its increase-dynamic-range thing. The 645Z's sensor doesn't have SR, so even with a firmware upgrade it isn't possible with the 645D/Z So, if you are using the tripod for a shot that does not require (or you just don't want to) "PS", the SR should be OFF, as usual. If you want to use PS, then you leave the SR "ON" ? JP

04-24-2015, 10:29 AM	#45
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jpzk So, if you are using the tripod for a shot that does not require (or you just don't want to) "PS", the SR should be OFF, as usual. If you want to use PS, then you leave the SR "ON" ? Just a second...I will look it up in the camera manual... Oops! No manual! Silly me! Steve