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04-26-2015, 08:22 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
the limitations seem to revolve around motion between frames.
I agree. There is potential for temporal "holes" in the data (sounds like Star Trek), if an object moves during the time required to do the shift. Mind you, the time is likely only a few milliseconds, but the potential is definitely there.


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04-26-2015, 08:30 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The amount of sharpening added by the camera seems reasonable to me
Yep, rare is the conversion from RAW that does not include at least some sharpening.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
... But yeah, how sharp is the actual photo?
Probably much, much higher definition than anything short of Foveon for this size sensor. I am basing that assertion by the fine detail in the map area of the watch image. I am not the king of sharpening in PP (seldom move beyond the import defaults), but what I saw on that image is a few orders of magnitude better detail capture than is present on the non-shifted versions of the same image that have been distributed.

After viewing the examples, I am seriously concerned that I will spend many thousands of dollars buying premium glass if I buy such a camera.


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04-26-2015, 08:33 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
Wondering if pixel shifting would be really useful in wildlife photography... birds are seldom static...
It depends on the process and how fast it is. I have shots at 1/30 of birds taken in very low light and managed to find one of them where it caught them static for that length of time.

Time to buy a 128gb SD card.

---------- Post added 04-26-15 at 08:36 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Guys, my point was that there is definitely some sharpening going on, which may explain why it looks that sharp. I want to see the actual resolution that PS brings, if possible compared to a normal photo. You can always make it look sharper in post, but how much detail is REALLY captured? For that a completely sharpening free photo would be beneficial. That is all.

The amount of sharpening added by the camera seems reasonable to me, I might do the same. But yeah, how sharp is the actual photo? It looks sharp, but I'd expect a non PS photo with a bit of sharpening applied to look similarly sharp.

Oh yeah, and I saw the halos at 1:1 in my browser on my screen. Not sure how they can be missed...
You can't bring out details like that with sharpening. They aren't there in the original.
04-26-2015, 08:38 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Yes, I got that part, but my question will be is it a RAW file we get to edit after it's been processed in camera.
I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if the PS feature doesn't allow output of raw files. The Olympus model with this feature does give this option, which strongly suggests that it will be technically possible to do so (although yes there are differences between the Olympus and Pentax systems). This text used in the examples on the website: 'in-body RAW data development' also strongly suggests to me that the files were shot in raw and then manually processed to jpeg in-camera.

Since this feature is all about improving image quality, it would be a serious handicap if it only outputs jpegs, and one which would render it very limited for serious use, so I seriously doubt that Pentax would introduce this without raw output.

04-26-2015, 08:44 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The documentation says in-camera.
OOC JPG = in camera processing

QuoteQuote:
I am not sure that I follow you here. "Clean" images are hard to come by for RAW captures.
Clean = RAW, as-in, unedited or adjusted. OR in this particular case, free from PP artifacts.
That said, it seems as though most of your responses and/or criticism toward my posts are due to miscommunication.

QuoteQuote:
John's example is at least 800% enlargement.
You'd be both wrong actually, it's 400%.
Which is reminiscent of a typical large print(see original context).

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---------- Post added 04-26-15 at 01:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Guys, my point was that there is definitely some sharpening going on, which may explain why it looks that sharp. I want to see the actual resolution that PS brings, if possible compared to a normal photo. You can always make it look sharper in post, but how much detail is REALLY captured? For that a completely sharpening free photo would be beneficial. That is all.
I agree wholeheartedly.
This is all very reminiscent of the early Sigma Foveon days.

-

Last edited by JohnBee; 04-26-2015 at 12:47 PM.
04-26-2015, 09:05 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
OOC JPG = in camera processing
I would hope that at least Pentax would follow their approach on the K3 with bracketing, where they bundled the raws with the processed and wrote out a custom DNG file. Otherwise, the JPG is fine, but why go to the effort? Anyway, time will tell - as the body will start delivering soon enough...

04-26-2015, 02:01 PM   #97
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I'm wondering about the delay between frames. If it's aiming for super short that's great for ambient light, but I wonder if it can be delayed for static studio work with strobes/flashes if you're bumping up against recycle times..

QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
Wondering if pixel shifting would be really useful in wildlife photography... birds are seldom static...
I'd be able to use it on wildlife all the time...moths, frogs, turtles, dragonflies,... many of the wildlife I'm interested in has siesta time or likes to sit still and pretend it hasn't been noticed making tripod + long exposures very possible for stuff I do. Great for plant life too (wind will be your enemy as always). It's very subject and situation dependent though.

Whether I'd have a use for the absurd level of detail that seems to be possible is another question. The k3ii isn't at all on my radar, but I look forward to this feature a few more years down the road.
04-26-2015, 02:46 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I'm wondering about the delay between frames. If it's aiming for super short that's great for ambient light, but I wonder if it can be delayed for static studio work with strobes/flashes if you're bumping up against recycle times..
I am just talking through my hat here, but I suspect that for an exposure of 1/160s in normal operation, the mechanical shutter will be open for 1/160s + the time for each shift. Flash support would require four bursts at 1/4 intensity with a lag between for recharge resulting in the shutter being open for an arbitrary longer period of time. Such would not be impossible, though it would require significant manual control features.

Another option would be to provide long-duration flash similar to the FP bulbs of yesteryear.

Does anyone know if Hasselblad or Olympus provides flash support for their pixel shift implementations?


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04-26-2015, 04:14 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I saw the halos at 1:1 in my browser on my screen. Not sure how they can be missed...
One person's sharpening 'halos' are another persons fringing correction artefacts, or JPEG compression level contrast edge blurring ... They can all look comparable.

Note that, for example, the EXIF for both the DFA 100 Macro shot of the clock/fishing lures and the DA*55 shot of the temple tower show: "Chromatic Aberration Correction : On" ... What may have been the impact of that setting?

The EXIF also shows that while the 'Fine Sharpness' setting was turned 'OFF' for those two in-camera JPEGs, the in-camera JPEG 'Sharpness' setting for both images was set to 1: 'Hard'. Who amongst us knows what the difference between 'Fine Sharpness: OFF' and 'Sharpness: Hard' may mean for how a Pentax JPEG looks? I personally have no clue.

I believe we need to wait for some lab tests based on RAW's, with all of those in-camera Pentax JPEG settings turned off, before we can really draw conclusions about how the PS tech works independent of the camera JPEG settings.

NB - the EXIF also shows the DA*55 temple shot was taken while the camera body was at 38 degrees Celsius. Maybe such a high temperature - inside and outside of the camera - is also having an impact on the image. Those 'halos' may simply be atmospheric heat related, more than possible when shooting architecture on a hot and humid Thailand afternoon.

Last edited by rawr; 04-26-2015 at 04:20 PM.
04-26-2015, 05:00 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Whether I'd have a use for the absurd level of detail that seems to be possible is another question. The k3ii isn't at all on my radar, but I look forward to this feature a few more years down the road.
You would. When you get more detail you actually notice interesting things about the critters. For example when I got the K-3 I could see the serrated beak of the common Merganser. Now the shot isn't sharp enough if I can't see it.
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