Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-08-2008, 10:31 AM   #16
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
It's a figure of speech. Some lenses are better than others at capturing fine details (resolving power). Generally speaking, the kit lenses are low on the scale when it comes to resolving power. On the other hand, if you take a lens like the Pentax 31 Ltd, it's resolving power is among the highest you can find. With such a lens and a high pixel count, you can literally count the facets in the eye of a fly ten feet away, which wouldn't be possible with the kit lens.

06-08-2008, 02:08 PM   #17
RaduA
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
Radu
Thanks for the info. One question...."The drawback is you need good lenses for it"--- What do you mean. "Good lenses." I wasn't aware that there were bad lenses. I have enjoyed all of my Pentax glass.

Should I look for something else for portrait photography?

Rene`

P.S. I ordered it last night! I am excited!
Hi, Rene'!

First of all congrats on your purchase and I know you won't be disappointed ! What I meant on the lens comment is that the sensor can resolve a tremendous amount of detail but the lens must be up to the task. If you look into my sig you'll see I am more of a prime user. Besides a modern zoom I didn't use any on K20D and I have little expertise for you in that field. But I doubt that an old M42 zoom or a FAJ series zoom can outresolve the sensor for detail. So using an inadequate lens can give you less IQ than it is possible normaly.

On the prime side I can tell you that my 2 M42 Pentax lenses are very good performers on K20D (of course with some limitations) and the IQ from K100D to K20D is way better for both. For portraits I have FA50 and for the price is a very good lens. You may also consider Voigtlander 58/1.4 Nokton (manual focus) for about twice the price and FA 43 / 1.9 Ltd for another increase in price but also in build and image quality.

Keep us posted about your first impressions on the K20D please!
Radu
06-08-2008, 05:50 PM   #18
Pentaxian
Arpe's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,344
I moved from DS to K20D. Vast improvement in all aspects (except size and weight), and I loved my DS.

For some sports shots from a K20D you can look here. A game of rugby lasts 80 minutes. I usually end up with 20-30 shots I like. I would like it if the frame rate was faster and the auto focus, I truly believe I would get more keepers, but I am happy as it's much easier to get keepers than with the DS. I really like the TAv mode for sports.
06-08-2008, 05:54 PM   #19
Site Supporter
Groucho's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 396
I also started with a DL, went with a K100D (I wanted an AF360 flash and the combined rebate was too good to pass up!), and then picked up a K20D. I've since sold the DL to a friend and the K100D has become my wife's camera (complete with red Op/Tech strap. )

One of the things I like best is the larger, brighter viewfinder - it makes manual focusing much easier.

Speed-wise, the K20D is a big change - flipping through photos when reviewing is nearly instant, much quicker than the DL/K100D.

The size is larger but for me, it doesn't feel significantly larger or heavier - except when I pick up the K100D now, which suddenly feels a lot smaller! The K100D's screen seems smaller than you'd expect from only .2" difference, too. It's amazing how quickly you get used to the larger camera.

The low-light ability is definitely better, AF is definitely better (especially in very dim light), the built-in wireless flash control is great, the weathersealing is great and very effective when fairly with a weathersealed lens, etc, etc... it's certainly not perfect but it is a great camera.

Like others have said, putting a good lens in front helps a lot. With such high resolution, things need to be nearly perfect to get great results when viewed at 100% - no camera shake whatsoever, high-grade lens at a good aperture, perfect focus, etc. My best results are probably from my 31mm F1.8 and 105mm F2.8, with the 50mm F1.4 very close behind. The 50-135mm F2.8 is pretty good but not quite as sharp as I'd really like... and the 10-17mm fisheye can actually produce some wonderfully sharp photos in the right circumstances, too. My next lens will probably be the 16-50mm F2.8, hopefully I'll get satisfactory results with that one.

For battery life, I get about 700-800 shots per battery. I use the Pentax battery and a Minolta battery purchased from B&H for fairly cheap, it's just slightly lower capacity than the Pentax one.

Memory cards are important, too - although size-wise, they're not that much larger than the DL/K100D RAWs thanks to lossless compression. The 6mp RAWs are around 10 megs, my K20D RAWs average somewhere around 13.5 megs (from a quick survey of one folder of 676 pics). But a high-speed write card helps a lot - I have (among others) two 8g class 6 SDHC cards, one Transcend and one PQI, and the Transcend seems to write much faster than the PQI. If I use the 21fps burst mode with the PQI, it seems like it takes forever to empty the buffer.

06-08-2008, 06:23 PM   #20
Forum Member
jaws's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Torquay, Victoria, Aus
Posts: 63
I went from the Dl to the K20 supposedly a big jump, I went on a holiday to India a week after i bought it. It was a delight to use, the extra weight was not an issue it fits well in my hands, the battery lasts a long time (i don't use live view) the shake reduction was great for low light shots, it has so many features that were useful to me and had me really enjoying my photography.
I am still discovering new settings to try out, I would encourage any one to try this camera.
good luck.
John
06-08-2008, 08:29 PM   #21
Veteran Member
rfortson's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston TX
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,129
QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
That is what I thought u meant by chimping --- but I wasn't positive. Thanks!

"Chimping" comes from the sound a photographer makes reviewing their shots. "Oooh, oooh, look at that one! Ooh, ooh!"

06-10-2008, 05:54 PM   #22
Junior Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Timisoara,Romania
Posts: 34
Hello fellow Pentax users, i've only just registered on pentaxforums and i have a dilemma:

I currently own a DL and i use it for wedding photography (i started a month or so ago), i would like a serious upgrade : body and f/2.8 lens. I was very dissapointed to see where Pentax is going with the quality, i got better image quality at high ISO (1600 especially, 800 maybe) from the DL compared to a friend's K10D, and the 16-45 lens underperformed compared to the much cheaper 18-55 in both sharpness and AF accuracy.

Also, someone i exchanged mail with bought a 16-50* and was horribly unsatisfied, it couldn't focus wide open, no sharpness and so on, and it is not the only unsatisfied user of that lens.

So i started considering switching to either D80 with Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 or Canon 40D with the same Tamron. But recently, the K20 got alot cheaper, so by buying the K20 and the Tamron i would get to keep my AF360FGZ.

I was clearly dissapointed by the K10's high ISO behaviour and by it's weight and chunkyness compared to the D80 and my DL.

I would like to know if the K20 has less noise with NR off at ISO 800 (i use it all the time) and ISO 1600 (i use it on rare ocasions)

If someone owns both the K10 and the K20, please take some shots at ISO 800 and 1600 in the same exact conditions with NR off and full exif, make 100% crops and post them here or send them at nicolaiecostel@yahoo.com.

I read alot of reviews on the net about the K20 but everyone seems to care more for the liveview, sealing or the extra megapixels rather than high ISO behaviour (which is absolutely crucial to me).

I also would like to see some crops from both the D80 and especially 40D, if there is someone out there that used all of these cameras, please help !!, don't offer unaccurate information just because you like Pentax, i also love my DL, but i don't buy a new camera or switch camera manufacturers every day, so i have to consider this closely.

Thanks for paying attention and please excuse my poor english.
06-10-2008, 06:09 PM   #23
Site Supporter
Marc Langille's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, USA
Posts: 4,702
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You will certainly get more resolution with the K20. The sensor pretty much can out resolve all but the very best lenses out there.
Battery life is good. with the accessory grip, and mild chimping, you should get at least a thousand shots between battery change outs, 500 without the grip.

The K20 shoots at 3fps on continuous full resolution shots, with a 9 frame buffer fill, IIRC. A fast card such as a Sandisk ExtremeIII really helps as you can shoot bursts of 3-5 shots, wait a moment and shoot another burst, and the camera will keep up. I don't find this limiting. It's fast enough. The AF can be a bit of a disaster with a moving target, but is close to as good as anything in the K20 price class. You can get better with the other big camera makers, but you are moving up the price ladder to do it, and you don't get to use Pentax lenses anymore.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
Radu
Thanks for the info. One question...."The drawback is you need good lenses for it"--- What do you mean. "Good lenses." I wasn't aware that there were bad lenses. I have enjoyed all of my Pentax glass.

Should I look for something else for portrait photography?

Rene`

P.S. I ordered it last night! I am excited!
Agreed - that sensor still cannot outperform my FA* glass...

The only downside is when I shoot wildlife photography, that FPS buffer fills fast on my K20D... which is a problem, since the action needs to be captured! The image quality at higher ISO's is truly excellent. I'll share some low light Wildebeest images when I can. Battery life is much, much better than my K10D - both have the battery grip too.

Cheers,
Marc

06-10-2008, 06:16 PM   #24
Site Supporter
Groucho's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 396
Without getting into things too much, the D80 has the same Sony 10mp sensor as the K10D, so you should expect the same high ISO performance (barring differences in noise reduction, but IMHO if you're serious about such things, you should be shooting raw anyway.)

Some of the rest of your message is confusing. You've been reading reviews that talk more about Live View than the K20D's high ISO capabilities? You got better results with the 18-55mm than a 16-45mm? And you've discounted the 16-50mm F2.8 because some emailed you with bad results? (If it's that bad, why didn't they just send it back?) None of these seem to make agree with anything I've read. There are plenty of reviews that go into high ISO quality, and by all accounts, the 16-45mm and 16-50mm are excellent lenses (though QC on the latter may be a little spotty) - certainly better than the decent-but-not-amazing 18-5mm lens.

Finally, comparing 100% crops of DL images vs K10D images vs K20D images for noise is not necessarily fair - you'd be comparing 6mp, 10mp, and 14.6mp images, with different-sized pixels. That being said, my K20D can easily outperform my DL and K100D at high ISOs (which is very important to me - and I'm talking at 3200 and 6400 levels.)
06-10-2008, 06:56 PM   #25
Junior Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Timisoara,Romania
Posts: 34
QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
Without getting into things too much, the D80 has the same Sony 10mp sensor as the K10D, so you should expect the same high ISO performance (barring differences in noise reduction, but IMHO if you're serious about such things, you should be shooting raw anyway.)

Some of the rest of your message is confusing. You've been reading reviews that talk more about Live View than the K20D's high ISO capabilities? You got better results with the 18-55mm than a 16-45mm? And you've discounted the 16-50mm F2.8 because some emailed you with bad results? (If it's that bad, why didn't they just send it back?) None of these seem to make agree with anything I've read. There are plenty of reviews that go into high ISO quality, and by all accounts, the 16-45mm and 16-50mm are excellent lenses (though QC on the latter may be a little spotty) - certainly better than the decent-but-not-amazing 18-5mm lens.

Finally, comparing 100% crops of DL images vs K10D images vs K20D images for noise is not necessarily fair - you'd be comparing 6mp, 10mp, and 14.6mp images, with different-sized pixels. That being said, my K20D can easily outperform my DL and K100D at high ISOs (which is very important to me - and I'm talking at 3200 and 6400 levels.)


Well, confusing as it may seem, the guy that bought the lemon 16-50 tried to return it and get another one, but the Pentax service firm charged him for no reason with 10 percent of the lens's value in order to replace it or refund him, so he got angry with Pentax and sold the whole sistem.

About K10D versus D80: I know that they both use the Sony sensor, so i went and took some shots, with NR off the Nikon performs slightly better.

Yes, i shot a wedding with both 16-45 and 18-55, the AF speed on the 16-45 was impressive, but it missed focus alot more than the slower 18-55. Also, the distorsions on the 16-45, at 20 mm seemed alot more obvius than those on the 18-55.

Bottom line, i want to shoot weddings with either 40D and 17-50 tammy or K20 with 17-50 tammy. The D80 would be the last resort in case of budget shrinking in the mean while.

I read some reviews for the K20, but the samples were confusing, no exif, or side-by-side comparisson with the direct competition (40D and D300 ??). I guess i just have to look into it more thoroughly.

Now that i am partially in peace with the high ISO performance thanks to Groucho it would seem that i will take my chance with the K20.

Cheers.

Last edited by nicolaie; 06-10-2008 at 07:03 PM.
06-10-2008, 08:28 PM   #26
Pentaxian
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 10,135
QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
Hello fellow Pentax users, i've only just registered on pentaxforums and i have a dilemma:

I currently own a DL and i use it for wedding photography (i started a month or so ago), i would like a serious upgrade : body and f/2.8 lens. I was very dissapointed to see where Pentax is going with the quality, i got better image quality at high ISO (1600 especially, 800 maybe) from the DL compared to a friend's K10D, and the 16-45 lens underperformed compared to the much cheaper 18-55 in both sharpness and AF accuracy.

Also, someone i exchanged mail with bought a 16-50* and was horribly unsatisfied, it couldn't focus wide open, no sharpness and so on, and it is not the only unsatisfied user of that lens.

So i started considering switching to either D80 with Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 or Canon 40D with the same Tamron. But recently, the K20 got alot cheaper, so by buying the K20 and the Tamron i would get to keep my AF360FGZ.

I was clearly dissapointed by the K10's high ISO behaviour and by it's weight and chunkyness compared to the D80 and my DL.

I would like to know if the K20 has less noise with NR off at ISO 800 (i use it all the time) and ISO 1600 (i use it on rare ocasions)

If someone owns both the K10 and the K20, please take some shots at ISO 800 and 1600 in the same exact conditions with NR off and full exif, make 100% crops and post them here or send them at nicolaiecostel@yahoo.com.

I read alot of reviews on the net about the K20 but everyone seems to care more for the liveview, sealing or the extra megapixels rather than high ISO behaviour (which is absolutely crucial to me).

I also would like to see some crops from both the D80 and especially 40D, if there is someone out there that used all of these cameras, please help !!, don't offer unaccurate information just because you like Pentax, i also love my DL, but i don't buy a new camera or switch camera manufacturers every day, so i have to consider this closely.

Thanks for paying attention and please excuse my poor english.
I can only sort of help you, since i have done no side by side testing.
However, if you look here:

A Picture

You will see a high ISO shot, with full exif, and a 100% slice as well.
Shot at 6400. I don't recall what, if any, post processing it got, but it is converted from a raw, not a jpeg.
The bottom shot was at ISO 800 (I forgot to set the ISO), and has exif on the full shot, and a 100% slice below.

This page:

A Picture

was shot at ISO 800, with a 100% slice below.

I am quite happy with the K20 high ISO performance.


Pentax seems to be having some QC issues at the moment. The 16-50 is particularly affected, to the point I wonder if there isn't an engineering flaw in the mechanical design.
AF accuracy has become a problem with everyone, it seems. Front focus and back focus are quite common, enough so that the K20 allows for user adjustment of the autofocus on a lens by lens basis.
06-11-2008, 05:17 AM   #27
Junior Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Timisoara,Romania
Posts: 34
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I can only sort of help you, since i have done no side by side testing.
However, if you look here:

A Picture

You will see a high ISO shot, with full exif, and a 100% slice as well.
Shot at 6400. I don't recall what, if any, post processing it got, but it is converted from a raw, not a jpeg.
The bottom shot was at ISO 800 (I forgot to set the ISO), and has exif on the full shot, and a 100% slice below.

This page:

A Picture

was shot at ISO 800, with a 100% slice below.

I am quite happy with the K20 high ISO performance.


Pentax seems to be having some QC issues at the moment. The 16-50 is particularly affected, to the point I wonder if there isn't an engineering flaw in the mechanical design.
AF accuracy has become a problem with everyone, it seems. Front focus and back focus are quite common, enough so that the K20 allows for user adjustment of the autofocus on a lens by lens basis.

Thanks mate, i found your shots quite intereseting.
06-11-2008, 06:19 AM   #28
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
If you have a K20D --- I would love to hear from you. I am thinking about buying the K20D. I have the *istDL and the K100D. I need more resolution. Please give me your thoughts. How about the battery? How long does it last? I shoot children and sports.
K20D has more resolution, but it is considerably larger and heavier than the DL and the K100D, which you should be aware of.

The K20D lithium rechargeable is a better power solution which gives a more stable and powerful power supply for the camera.

I am not sure how the K20D will perform for shooting children and sport but as you may know, the K100 and the DL are too slow for these applications.

QuoteQuote:
I am new here--- but I have been a Pentaxian for almost 30 years.......
Welcome here. Enjoy!
06-11-2008, 06:44 AM   #29
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 593
QuoteOriginally posted by Rene` Quote
If you have a K20D --- I would love to hear from you. I am thinking about buying the K20D. I have the *istDL and the K100D. I need more resolution. Please give me your thoughts. How about the battery? How long does it last? I shoot children and sports.

I am new here--- but I have been a Pentaxian for almost 30 years.......
The K20D will definitely give you more resolution and it is quite amazing.

You will not be disappointed with the K20D.
06-11-2008, 09:00 AM   #30
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
"Chimping" comes from the sound a photographer makes reviewing their shots. "Oooh, oooh, look at that one! Ooh, ooh!"

Actually, isn't it called 'chimping' because the movement you make with your thumb on the wheel and buttons when you're moving through or zoomig in on your shot on the LCD is exactly like the 'grooming' activity chimps do? Maybe you've seen Nat Geo or other shows where a chimp is grooming another by obsessively rubbing patches of fur aside with ther thumb... It looks exactly like camera 'chimping' (at least that's what I heard, and they do look the same to me)
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, k20d, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to take a couple portraits, advise needed rover Photographic Technique 5 10-21-2010 04:38 AM
Pentax K-x and cold weather enviroment, advise needed AirSupply Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 01-13-2010 02:31 PM
Advise needed - Is this CPL worth Buying? joodiespost Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 7 01-12-2010 12:41 PM
advise needed:wide-angle lens Slice Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 11-09-2009 10:22 AM
Advise needed! Rense Photo Critique 16 04-21-2009 01:18 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:32 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top