DNG files and Capture one with the K-30?

MD Optofonik · 05-01-2015, 06:50 PM

I'm not sure I understand the relationship Capture One has with Pentax DNG files since, as I understand it, DNG is a generic standard. If I understand correctly the old PEF files were specific to a particular camera's data handling in RAW files and that data could be used by Capture One's RAW processing in equally specific ways that were unique to the specific camera used to capture the RAW image. If Capture One can't find anything unique to the K-30 that it can use during RAW processing them I don't see much point using it with Pentax DNG files; i.e., I have no reason to consider trying Capture One with my K-30..

**PentaxJax** · 05-01-2015, 08:11 PM

I'm sure Capture one has its uses aimed above entry to mid level DSLR's from any manufacturer. when cost of software is more than camera body???
DNG is as you say, a generic standard, as such it is open to interpretation. My K3 DNG files are often confused in LR4 I need to set my own WB. I believe Adobe have added correct camera correction to later versions. If all DNG were equal this would not matter. PEF files are specific but supported less main stream.

Fauxton · 05-02-2015, 08:22 AM

You can regard DNG as just another file format for a raw file. The major difference is that the file specification is public. However for the most part PEF and DNG do about the same thing is roughly the same way. There are some advantages to DNG, (which frankly aside from the following discussion regarding profiles I'm not going to visit here). Regarding Capture 1 (and ACR/LR) is that the raw convertor user has the choice of using either the embedded profile (the one the camera embedded in your DNG) or the one supplied by the Adobe. In Capture 1, Phase 1 has one or two "generic" ICC profiles for each Pentax camera which does the same thing as the Adobe "Standard" profiles do in ACR/LR. However if in Capture 1 you select the Adobe DNG profile with the sub selection of "DNG workspace" I believe you will have selected the same thing as the "embedded" profile - the camera profile setting you shot with.

So in the various convertors you can have a wider choice of ICC profiles to start with when using DNG. The nice thing about Capture 1 and DXO (but not CS6/ACR)is that you can select other profiles from other camera and manufacturers (these are the software manufacturers standards for those cameras). So it is possible to have the K30 file look pretty close to what a Canon 6D would have looked like or D750 or whatever. If you like the other profiles over the Pentax ones you can use them - either the one embedded, the software manufacturers ones, or the ones that you had created yourself through the use of the colorchecker and profiler software from xrite or Adobe.

Note that should you wish to use PEF files, at least as far as Adobe products are concerned (LR/ACR) your choices are Adobe's standard profiles or ones of your own creation. The "embedded" ones are not available in ACR/LR when using PEF.

I use DNG when I can - not all my cameras output DNG. And I use all three of the convertors I mentioned above (DXO Optics 10, CS6/ACR, and Capture 1(8)). Some of the software options may be different in your versions.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 05-05-2015, 07:45 AM

In answer to MD's original post, every camera model has a specific handling characteristic, the designation of DNG or PEF is essentially the container of those characteristics. Basically, we have seen that Pentax models allowing designation between PEF and DNG respond exactly the same when handled with quality converters such as LR or C1.

In response to Jax, the value of a software is challenging to measure. A decade ago, LR cost more than C1 does now. I was fortunate to be able to upgrade from an Express version of C1 for a much-lower price, but its qualities are worth a lot to me. It is quicker, more accurate in tones, and allows for differences in general- and micro-sharpening that cannot be achieved in LR. (I have been using C1 more than LR in the past year, but for several years before that LR was my primary converter. I have a lot of experience with both programs.) While the K-30 benefited from C1, the gap is even wider when using the K-3 due to the sharpening requirements and reducing noise. In any event, C1 is the standard for medium format studio photography - and the cost of the software for those folks is viewed as less than significant.

Last edited by ScooterMaxi Jim; 05-05-2015 at 08:19 PM.

05-01-2015, 06:50 PM	#1
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	DNG files and Capture one with the K-30? I'm not sure I understand the relationship Capture One has with Pentax DNG files since, as I understand it, DNG is a generic standard. If I understand correctly the old PEF files were specific to a particular camera's data handling in RAW files and that data could be used by Capture One's RAW processing in equally specific ways that were unique to the specific camera used to capture the RAW image. If Capture One can't find anything unique to the K-30 that it can use during RAW processing them I don't see much point using it with Pentax DNG files; i.e., I have no reason to consider trying Capture One with my K-30..

05-02-2015, 08:22 AM	#3
Fauxton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 100	Capture 1 and DNG - or DNG in general You can regard DNG as just another file format for a raw file. The major difference is that the file specification is public. However for the most part PEF and DNG do about the same thing is roughly the same way. There are some advantages to DNG, (which frankly aside from the following discussion regarding profiles I'm not going to visit here). Regarding Capture 1 (and ACR/LR) is that the raw convertor user has the choice of using either the embedded profile (the one the camera embedded in your DNG) or the one supplied by the Adobe. In Capture 1, Phase 1 has one or two "generic" ICC profiles for each Pentax camera which does the same thing as the Adobe "Standard" profiles do in ACR/LR. However if in Capture 1 you select the Adobe DNG profile with the sub selection of "DNG workspace" I believe you will have selected the same thing as the "embedded" profile - the camera profile setting you shot with. So in the various convertors you can have a wider choice of ICC profiles to start with when using DNG. The nice thing about Capture 1 and DXO (but not CS6/ACR)is that you can select other profiles from other camera and manufacturers (these are the software manufacturers standards for those cameras). So it is possible to have the K30 file look pretty close to what a Canon 6D would have looked like or D750 or whatever. If you like the other profiles over the Pentax ones you can use them - either the one embedded, the software manufacturers ones, or the ones that you had created yourself through the use of the colorchecker and profiler software from xrite or Adobe. Note that should you wish to use PEF files, at least as far as Adobe products are concerned (LR/ACR) your choices are Adobe's standard profiles or ones of your own creation. The "embedded" ones are not available in ACR/LR when using PEF. I use DNG when I can - not all my cameras output DNG. And I use all three of the convertors I mentioned above (DXO Optics 10, CS6/ACR, and Capture 1(8)). Some of the software options may be different in your versions.

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05-01-2015, 08:11 PM	#2
PentaxJax Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eastern shore Posts: 138	I'm sure Capture one has its uses aimed above entry to mid level DSLR's from any manufacturer. when cost of software is more than camera body??? DNG is as you say, a generic standard, as such it is open to interpretation. My K3 DNG files are often confused in LR4 I need to set my own WB. I believe Adobe have added correct camera correction to later versions. If all DNG were equal this would not matter. PEF files are specific but supported less main stream.

05-05-2015, 07:45 AM	#4
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	In answer to MD's original post, every camera model has a specific handling characteristic, the designation of DNG or PEF is essentially the container of those characteristics. Basically, we have seen that Pentax models allowing designation between PEF and DNG respond exactly the same when handled with quality converters such as LR or C1. In response to Jax, the value of a software is challenging to measure. A decade ago, LR cost more than C1 does now. I was fortunate to be able to upgrade from an Express version of C1 for a much-lower price, but its qualities are worth a lot to me. It is quicker, more accurate in tones, and allows for differences in general- and micro-sharpening that cannot be achieved in LR. (I have been using C1 more than LR in the past year, but for several years before that LR was my primary converter. I have a lot of experience with both programs.) While the K-30 benefited from C1, the gap is even wider when using the K-3 due to the sharpening requirements and reducing noise. In any event, C1 is the standard for medium format studio photography - and the cost of the software for those folks is viewed as less than significant. Last edited by ScooterMaxi Jim; 05-05-2015 at 08:19 PM.