Our dear friend Ed...

Stavri · 05-04-2015, 10:41 PM - **1 Like**

This video is almost a month old, and Ed is as engrossing as ever. I hope he remembers to take his baby aspirin since he's getting up there in years and this pod-casting lifestyle is not helping:

The video-rant:

You Tube

My response:
Talking about bad marketing Ed, I do seriously hope (for your own sake) you're getting those Tamron lenses for free given how much you've been talking up the brand these last years. You don't seem to visit the pentaxforum given your status as a persona-non-grata, if you did you'd see almost daily Canon D1X wedding shooters asking bout the 645z system. Newsflash: the future of wedding photography is MF, its a trend that's been taking Asia by storm (there's more demand for Pentax MF in China then anywhere else at the moment). The reason Pentax teased the FF last year was to appease their current users and make sure they don't jump ship. Pentax is not counting on Canonikons leaving their systems yet, they don't have the lens catalog for that. They're counting on existing Pentax users and their 20 million legacy lens arsenal adopting the system. Once the FF has matured the Caninokons WILL come. Pentax is not going anywhere, they're more profitable then ever, so save your energies because I do expect a this ranting trend of yours to continue...

Note: Ed changed his tune 2 weeks later with the purchase of a DA 20-40 (He recommended it over the Tamron 17-50) and news of the new K3ii being released this summer. The man is in love again..

Youtu.be

Last edited by Stavri; 05-04-2015 at 11:00 PM.

**NZ_Ross** · 05-04-2015, 11:45 PM - **1 Like**

I enjoy watching Ed's videos. At least he has an opinion, even if you don't agree with it

When he gets things wrong he is prepared to admit it.....

biz-engineer · 05-05-2015, 01:02 AM

From what I've seen from Ed's videos, he is generally presenting more Pentax gear than anything else. His marketing style is more effective than any other material out there, because he is delivering content from a perspective of a user who is not religiously biased to a brand. In additional, his style works very well because he is sharing his feelings (emotions) which are know to be an important feature of effective advertisement. This approach called "content marketing" is very effective because of it penetrates the audience. Classic sales and marketing does not work that well because the message is immediately identified as classified as "advertisement". In today's free market, customers love to make informed purchase decision, so presenting the pros and cons of various product and systems is actually more effective in generating sales.

Giklab · 05-05-2015, 01:12 AM - **3 Likes**

Plot twist: Ed IS Pentax marketing

ZeljkoS · 05-05-2015, 01:19 AM - **1 Like**

I also like watching his videos, even with all the ranting. He does have a point in several things... not to mention that he's the only one actually talking about Pentax.

And I'm not talking about reviews which say "this is the sensor, this is the shutter button, and here you have a screen... "

officiousbystander · 05-05-2015, 02:26 AM - **1 Like**

I bought my K5 because of Ed. As well as a few limiteds. Not quite convinced when he ventures into God and guns but I trust him when it comes to cameras.

Kunzite · 05-05-2015, 03:20 AM - **1 Like**

Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke.
At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant...

Breaking news: FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C.
And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault.

**NZ_Ross** · 05-05-2015, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke.
At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant...

Breaking news: FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C.
And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault.

Yeap, it was a good rant that one. He has made another video since then and basically admitted he got it wrong around DA lens purchases, especially the Limited's

Kunzite · 05-05-2015, 03:50 AM

The problem was he was so incredibly arrogant, so insulting towards Pentax - towards the people who are giving us the products. And without a good reason (his "reason" was the zero APS-C sales BS).
Valid criticism is done without insults, but with good arguments.

biz-engineer · 05-05-2015, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke. At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant....

> So, it looks like you know who is right and wrong.

> In order to avoid falling yourself into the trap of the messy logic syndrome, you have to provide evidence (numbers) to backup your affirmation:
" FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault."

RonHendriks1966 · 05-05-2015, 04:39 AM

Well I looked some hours to Ed's video's so there must be something to come back to.

Kunzite · 05-05-2015, 05:33 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

> So, it looks like you know who is right and wrong.

> In order to avoid falling yourself into the trap of the messy logic syndrome, you have to provide evidence (numbers) to backup your affirmation:
" FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault."

Obviously, I don't get to decide who's right or wrong; but I don't jump to conclusions and call people stupid - like he did. That's far beyond reasonable criticism.

As for falling into some trap (careful where you're stepping!) - it's not like I'm making things up from thin air. You can go look at the CIPA data if you wish, for example the average interchangeable lens value is quite telling (about 33860.1 yen); or that only ~29% of the interchangeable lenses made are for FF (note that FF lenses can and are used on APS-C, too). And few years ago BCNRanking published market statistics which showed that FF camera sales were in single digits.
Plus, you can just open your eyes and look around. Are people only using FF now?

By the way, how come only I have to provide data, and Ed is excused?

---------- Post added 05-05-15 at 03:34 PM ----------

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well I looked some hours to Ed's video's so there must be something to come back to.

Maybe. I'm only criticizing this particular video, particularly the insults being used instead of better judgement. Perhaps other videos are fine.

starbase218 · 05-05-2015, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke.
At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant...

Breaking news: FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C.

No it did not, and that's not what he's saying. He's saying sales are obliterated FOR NOW, because the promise of FF is in the air, but we have nothing concrete yet. Nothing that would make people say either "yeah that's great, I'll buy that" or "well it's good, but I'll stick with APS-C and get that new 16-85 (or something else) while I'm at it".

And anyway, the fact that he got the 20-40 kind of proved him wrong on the obliteration, and he's probably willing to admit that. His vids reflect his thoughts, nothing more, nothing less, at that time. If you don't like them, don't watch them.

Originally posted by Kunzite

And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault.

Maybe, but wouldn't it have been better if Pentax were to have spend another 6-12 months on the FF, then announce it and release it? You say, "this way they won't loose people jumping ship to Canon/Nikon", but they (could) have been doing that for YEARS now. Would another 6-12 months really make that much difference? I can't see it.

And while I don't agree that APS-C sales will be obliterated, I can see it decreasing sales, at least temporarily. That's not good.

---------- Post added 05-05-2015 at 04:02 PM ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

Maybe. I'm only criticizing this particular video, particularly the insults being used instead of better judgement. Perhaps other videos are fine.

You may want to watch the first video in which he commented on Pentax marketing (the reason he says it "strikes again"):

You Tube

I think he makes very good comments here.

Stavri · 05-05-2015, 07:12 AM

Ed is controversial because he changes he doesn't seem to have an unified theory but changed his stance often : case in point, 3 weeks ago he shuns Pentax for teasing the FF (thus killing aps-c sales) its line up of lenses while professing the impending doom, then two weeks later commends Ricoh/Pentax for the K3ii and the beautiful Da ltds (the ltd zoom as well) with glee. Althought his heart might be in the right place, this bipolar modus operandi now synonyms with Ed-logic (which should be trademarked IMO) is not helping the brand or the image of the users, depicting us as confused old timey folk using outdated photographic equipment operating in the fringes. I don't know where Ed's angst about the Pentax future comes from, the dude needs to relax and do more shootin'. (he's become the cartoon version of Peter from Family guy in "You know what grinds my gears" segments)

Kunzite · 05-05-2015, 07:18 AM - **1 Like**

starbase218:
He could try to make his opinion known (which is fine) without insulting the professionals (which isn't). It's those "stupid", "clueless" and utterly "incompetent" people who are keeping Pentax alive, and are delivering us those amazing cameras and lenses. Not the armchair experts.
And are you surprised he's proved himself wrong? Though the video with the insults was not retracted...

If they wanted to keep it secret until the end of the year, they would have had to postpone and keep secret the D FA 70-200 and D FA 150-450, too. That means lost sales. That means a Pentax apparently not doing much - the K-S2 with a kit lens, a K-3 update - and people would worry and complain and jump ship.

I don't quite understand... you're saying there might be a significant effect now, but it would disappear right after the FF market launch? Why?

And regarding the people holding on their purchases with the intention of buying the FF - they might not give money to Pentax now, but they will pay more later. Much more. Think double for the camera alone.

Stavri: yeah, that's why I called it kettle logic; he's all over the place. And is he really doing a service to Pentax (as some claims him to be 'Pentax' marketing') when he's touting the PentaxIsDoomed flag? I mean, few months before the long awaited FF?

05-05-2015, 05:33 AM - 1 Like	#12
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by biz-engineer > So, it looks like you know who is right and wrong. > In order to avoid falling yourself into the trap of the messy logic syndrome, you have to provide evidence (numbers) to backup your affirmation: " FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault." Obviously, I don't get to decide who's right or wrong; but I don't jump to conclusions and call people stupid - like he did. That's far beyond reasonable criticism. As for falling into some trap (careful where you're stepping!) - it's not like I'm making things up from thin air. You can go look at the CIPA data if you wish, for example the average interchangeable lens value is quite telling (about 33860.1 yen); or that only ~29% of the interchangeable lenses made are for FF (note that FF lenses can and are used on APS-C, too). And few years ago BCNRanking published market statistics which showed that FF camera sales were in single digits. Plus, you can just open your eyes and look around. Are people only using FF now? By the way, how come only I have to provide data, and Ed is excused? ---------- Post added 05-05-15 at 03:34 PM ---------- Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well I looked some hours to Ed's video's so there must be something to come back to. Maybe. I'm only criticizing this particular video, particularly the insults being used instead of better judgement. Perhaps other videos are fine. Last edited by Kunzite; 05-05-2015 at 06:56 AM.

05-05-2015, 07:12 AM	#14
Stavri Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: at a Bean & Leaf Photos: Albums Posts: 1,832 Original Poster	Ed is controversial because he changes he doesn't seem to have an unified theory but changed his stance often : case in point, 3 weeks ago he shuns Pentax for teasing the FF (thus killing aps-c sales) its line up of lenses while professing the impending doom, then two weeks later commends Ricoh/Pentax for the K3ii and the beautiful Da ltds (the ltd zoom as well) with glee. Althought his heart might be in the right place, this bipolar modus operandi now synonyms with Ed-logic (which should be trademarked IMO) is not helping the brand or the image of the users, depicting us as confused old timey folk using outdated photographic equipment operating in the fringes. I don't know where Ed's angst about the Pentax future comes from, the dude needs to relax and do more shootin'. (he's become the cartoon version of Peter from Family guy in "You know what grinds my gears" segments) Last edited by Stavri; 05-05-2015 at 08:47 AM.

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05-04-2015, 11:45 PM - 1 Like	#2
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	I enjoy watching Ed's videos. At least he has an opinion, even if you don't agree with it When he gets things wrong he is prepared to admit it.....

05-05-2015, 01:02 AM	#3
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	From what I've seen from Ed's videos, he is generally presenting more Pentax gear than anything else. His marketing style is more effective than any other material out there, because he is delivering content from a perspective of a user who is not religiously biased to a brand. In additional, his style works very well because he is sharing his feelings (emotions) which are know to be an important feature of effective advertisement. This approach called "content marketing" is very effective because of it penetrates the audience. Classic sales and marketing does not work that well because the message is immediately identified as classified as "advertisement". In today's free market, customers love to make informed purchase decision, so presenting the pros and cons of various product and systems is actually more effective in generating sales.

05-05-2015, 01:12 AM - 3 Likes	#4
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182	Plot twist: Ed IS Pentax marketing

05-05-2015, 01:19 AM - 1 Like	#5
ZeljkoS Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 421	I also like watching his videos, even with all the ranting. He does have a point in several things... not to mention that he's the only one actually talking about Pentax. And I'm not talking about reviews which say "this is the sensor, this is the shutter button, and here you have a screen... "

05-05-2015, 02:26 AM - 1 Like	#6
officiousbystander Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery Posts: 912	I bought my K5 because of Ed. As well as a few limiteds. Not quite convinced when he ventures into God and guns but I trust him when it comes to cameras.

05-05-2015, 03:20 AM - 1 Like	#7
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke. At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant... Breaking news: FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault.

05-05-2015, 03:40 AM	#8
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by Kunzite Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke. At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant... Breaking news: FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault. Yeap, it was a good rant that one. He has made another video since then and basically admitted he got it wrong around DA lens purchases, especially the Limited's

05-05-2015, 03:50 AM	#9
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The problem was he was so incredibly arrogant, so insulting towards Pentax - towards the people who are giving us the products. And without a good reason (his "reason" was the zero APS-C sales BS). Valid criticism is done without insults, but with good arguments.

05-05-2015, 03:53 AM	#10
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Kunzite Armchair expert saying the classic "people who do their job are stupid, and I know so much better". It almost made me puke. At least if he tried to make sense, instead of a messy kettle (i)logic rant.... > So, it looks like you know who is right and wrong. > In order to avoid falling yourself into the trap of the messy logic syndrome, you have to provide evidence (numbers) to backup your affirmation: " FF did not "absolutely obliterated" APS-C sales; not for Canon, not for Nikon, not for Sony. On the contrary, most ILC sales - by far - are APS-C. And if Ed can't think how announcing a FF might help Pentax keeping the high-spending customers and likely selling a few D FA lenses, that's not Pentax' fault."

05-05-2015, 04:39 AM	#11
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well I looked some hours to Ed's video's so there must be something to come back to.

05-05-2015, 07:18 AM - 1 Like	#15
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	starbase218: He could try to make his opinion known (which is fine) without insulting the professionals (which isn't). It's those "stupid", "clueless" and utterly "incompetent" people who are keeping Pentax alive, and are delivering us those amazing cameras and lenses. Not the armchair experts. And are you surprised he's proved himself wrong? Though the video with the insults was not retracted... If they wanted to keep it secret until the end of the year, they would have had to postpone and keep secret the D FA 70-200 and D FA 150-450, too. That means lost sales. That means a Pentax apparently not doing much - the K-S2 with a kit lens, a K-3 update - and people would worry and complain and jump ship. I don't quite understand... you're saying there might be a significant effect now, but it would disappear right after the FF market launch? Why? And regarding the people holding on their purchases with the intention of buying the FF - they might not give money to Pentax now, but they will pay more later. Much more. Think double for the camera alone. Stavri: yeah, that's why I called it kettle logic; he's all over the place. And is he really doing a service to Pentax (as some claims him to be 'Pentax' marketing') when he's touting the PentaxIsDoomed flag? I mean, few months before the long awaited FF?