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06-02-2015, 05:43 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by dakight Quote
This is a known issue with the K-5 IIs and is the result of the deliberate decision to remove the AA filter. You get sharper images with more detail but the tradeoff is that you risk moiré in certain circumstances.
True! In your case, it's the fabric...not the camera. Or actually...it is the camera because it doesn't have a filter to help with this stuff. As dakight said...it's a trade-off. Fabrics react differently under the camera and certain lights. That's what the whole "blue/black"..."white/gold"...dress controversy showed. The K5IIs was meant for photographers who would be shooting natural subjects, which very seldom feature the precise lines of fabric so an anti-aliasing filter isn't a problem. It's a matter of knowing your camera's limitations. FYI, I'm very attracted to the K-5IIs so I'm not knocking it as a camera...just acknowledging its faults.

06-02-2015, 09:18 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sure, I meant the small web size. It's hard for me see much detail on the screen with my eyes without zooming in. So it does clean up well then.
Ok, sorry, I mis-understood you. Yes, it did seem to get the worst of it for sure. The problem is the time that it takes to finely brush every inch of material that shows the effect... I ended up editing/fixing up one, and forgetting the rest. Thankfully we had done several poses, and they were happy, so it wasn't a big problem.

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Congratulations on the excellent moire. Most of us have never achieved anything so dramatic. I have hardly seen it at all on my K3 (AA filter turned off). Those fabrics do seem to be particularly susceptible. That's the reason the K5ii was preferred to the K5iis by fashion photographers. I think I'm still seeing pattern moire in the lapels of the light blue jacket in the cleaned-up image. LR has done very well with the false colour moire though.
Oh thanks, the pleasure is mine! You're right, Lightroom didn't catch the pattern moire in the lapel. I went back to make sure that I had "painted" over that part of the jacket, and I had...


QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Most of us have never achieved anything so dramatic...
That is exactly what I thought, and why I wondered if I've got an "extra" sensitive, or possible defective sensor. As I said earlier, I read a couple of threads where people took the sharpest lens they've got (at optimum aperture settings) and tried to provoke moire. I just take some snapshots with a kit lens, and I've got moire all over the place! If you look at the second example of moire that I posted, it's not nearly as visible, but it's also taken at only f/3.5!

QuoteOriginally posted by rumplestiltskin Quote
I bought my K5IIs early in 2014. Brought it on a trip to Scotland and Ireland in May (2014). I did find a few shots with the moire but just used LR's moire slider and the problem (with those photos) disappeared. Haven't lost any sleep about it.
Thanks for your thoughts! Your experience seems to be about the same as everyone else that I've heard, which is why I was so surprised to see such extreme moire in 18 pictures in a row! Don't worry, I won't lose any sleep about it either. I didn't really get this camera as a portrait camera, but I do use it for that purpose from time to time. I guess I'll have to be a lot more careful in those cases...

QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
I've had moiré a couple of times with my k-01 - which has a rather light OLPF - once with the 40mm XS, once with the M 28/3.5. Nothing that a couple well-placed brush strokes couldn't cure. If in doubt, just stop down a bit. If you can't, don't lose any sleep over it, it's easy to correct in PP.
Great... One more thing to have to "correct" in post. I don't own Photoshop, but I think Lightroom will take care of it if it's not too bad.
I'm curious as to how "stopping down" would help any. I was at f/5.6 for the pictures in question. If I would have stopped down to f/8-f/11 wouldn't that just make the image sharper and exacerbate the moire further? I have heard of stopping down till diffraction kicks in to kill the moire, but it was getting dark, and I couldn't push the aperture that far.

QuoteOriginally posted by dakight Quote
This is a known issue with the K-5 IIs and is the result of the deliberate decision to remove the AA filter. You get sharper images with more detail but the tradeoff is that you risk moiré in certain circumstances. There is a rather extensive discussion of it with examples in the K-5 IIs review. I personally have never seen it but it can and does happen and it turns out that fabric is one of the trouble spots. It can also occur on bird feathers and even surfaces with regular repeating patterns such as corrugated metal.
Yes, I realize that, and I'm quite happy with the sharper images! It's just that I never thought that the moire issue would be a problem for me, since "everyone" who owned it hadn't seen anything very bad, and certainly nothing close to what I'm getting here!

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
True! In your case, it's the fabric...not the camera. Or actually...it is the camera because it doesn't have a filter to help with this stuff. As dakight said...it's a trade-off. Fabrics react differently under the camera and certain lights. That's what the whole "blue/black"..."white/gold"...dress controversy showed. The K5IIs was meant for photographers who would be shooting natural subjects, which very seldom feature the precise lines of fabric so an anti-aliasing filter isn't a problem. It's a matter of knowing your camera's limitations. FYI, I'm very attracted to the K-5IIs so I'm not knocking it as a camera...just acknowledging its faults.
I was using an off-camera flash coming in from the left for all of these pictures. Probably the combination of angled lighting, and perfect focus combined to create the worst moire in the history of the K-5IIs.

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
FYI, I'm very attracted to the K-5IIs so I'm not knocking it as a camera...just acknowledging its faults.
I also am very attracted to the K-5IIs, it definitely has more accurate focus with my kit lens than my original K-5 did. The upgraded auto-focus and sharper sensor are just an added bonus.
06-03-2015, 12:56 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote

Great... One more thing to have to "correct" in post. I don't own Photoshop, but I think Lightroom will take care of it if it's not too bad.
I'm curious as to how "stopping down" would help any. I was at f/5.6 for the pictures in question. If I would have stopped down to f/8-f/11 wouldn't that just make the image sharper and exacerbate the moire further? I have heard of stopping down till diffraction kicks in to kill the moire, but it was getting dark, and I couldn't push the aperture that far.
Exactly, diffraction, obviously that's not always possible.
It's not difficult nor a lengthy process at all, and it happens once in a blue moon, so I at least don't sweat it much.
06-03-2015, 05:02 AM   #19
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You seem to think that because it affected 18 consecutive pictures that it's something out of the ordinary, but as I read your narrative it seems that all 18 pictures were of the same subject with just varied poses and angles. It's not at all surprising to me that if moiré appeared in one that it would be apparent to a more or less degree in the others. You're dealing with exactly the same circumstances in each case that allow moiré to appear with this camera in the first place. I'm betting that you'll go on and use it as you normally do and rarely if ever will you see it again. I don't believe their is anything unique or out of the ordinary about your copy; I believe that any other K-5 IIs would give similar results in similar conditions with similar subject matter. Fabric and other textures with fine repetitive details are a known weakness for this model. Your results in this particular shoot are simply bad luck and nothing more.

06-06-2015, 07:18 PM   #20
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Thanks @dakight for your encouraging words, but I'm afraid you're not quite correct...

I was just taking some pictures for my sister. She makes quilts and has a small shop on Etsy where she tries to sell them. Anyway, since I'm the "photographer" of the family, I get roped into taking her product shots! (It's good practice, so I don't mind).

Anyway, I took several shots using my speedlight bounced off the ceiling for illumination. Of course now that I've seen moire, I look for it everywhere, and my camera did not disappoint! ,



Click to see it full size... (I actually uploaded the same image twice, once with sharpening, and once without. The one w/out sharpening shows the moire better.)

If you look closely enough, you can see it in almost every square! (Especially the center & upper left corner) And lest you should think it's an isolated incident, I took several different angles, etc, and it shows up to some degree in almost all of them!

Here's another angle. In this shot it would really be nit-picking to worry about that slight bit, but it's still there...



It just seems rather strange to me that people tried and tried to provoke moire with their K-5IIs's when they first came out a few years ago, and everyone concluded that it's not really a problem. Here I've had my camera for 2 weeks, and I've got probably 15-20 different examples of it!

I'm not necessarily complaining, I rather like the fact that my camera/lens combo is sharp enough to produce it! Plus, it gives me practice with Lightroom brushes...
06-06-2015, 07:34 PM   #21
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Actually I started seeing Moire a few weeks after I started using my K-5IIs. I'm not sure if you can call it "Moire", but when photographing repeating patterns, like tiles on a roof, or aluminum siding on a house, I did see some weird artifacts that reminded me of Moire ? In those situations I would tone down the sharpening in-camera which seemed to help a little. Often I did nothing because when I downloaded the image and blew it up the artifacts seemed to disappear. I have not taken many pictures of clothing so far, but what you go there is definitely Moire. The thing is, you can get Moire even with a camera that has an AA filter (depending on the lens) at least I use to.

Last edited by hjoseph7; 06-06-2015 at 08:28 PM.
06-06-2015, 08:05 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote
Click to see it full size...
Private image...

Try a link to the full-size image file itself.


Steve
06-07-2015, 05:40 AM   #23
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I was watching an interview on The National Geographic Channel where Neil DeGrasse Tyson was talking to George Takei. The moiré was all over Takei's suit, constantly flashing and shimmering. It's a problem that occurs with fabrics in particular and with anything having a repeating regular pattern. Tile roofs, especially from a distance, corrugated surfaces, woven surfaces of any kind can exhibit the phenomenon. Quite frankly, the K-5 IIs is not particularly suitable for those kinds of images. Such surfaces are rather rare in nature and most of us rarely encounter them. For most of us the rare occasion when we must correct moiré in such images is an acceptable tradeoff for the exceptional sharpness of the unfiltered sensor. If you are regularly shooting portraits, textiles, or certain architectural subjects then the K-5 IIs is possibly not your best choice.

06-08-2015, 06:08 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Private image... Try a link to the full-size image file itself. Steve
Oops...
Sorry about that. I think it's fixed now...
07-27-2015, 03:55 AM   #25
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Hi, I know that this is an old thread. However, I have experienced moire on my K-5II. Has anyone experienced moire on a K-5II? I mean K-5II and not K-5IIs.
07-28-2015, 05:29 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Hi, I know that this is an old thread. However, I have experienced moire on my K-5II. Has anyone experienced moire on a K-5II? I mean K-5II and not K-5IIs.
I have experienced moiré on a K-01 which has a light OLPF, but has one nonetheless.
It's a distinct possibility to have moiré patterns on pictures taken with cameras that have an AA/OLP filter, it's just less common, and the less common the higher the MP.count of the sensor.
07-28-2015, 09:07 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Hi, I know that this is an old thread. However, I have experienced moire on my K-5II. Has anyone experienced moire on a K-5II? I mean K-5II and not K-5IIs.
You can get moire with any camera under the right conditions. The AA filter on most cameras is there because of that. It was removed from k-5IIs and newer cameras so there is a higher possibility of seeing it with those cameras. But you can see it with any camera.
07-29-2015, 05:59 PM   #28
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Thanks.
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