Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-01-2015, 05:11 PM   #1
Pentaxian
12345's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 487
K-5IIs extreme moire examples

I just found a deal on the K-5IIs a few weeks ago! I was so excited, especially after I found that it is much sharper when paired with 18-135 WR than my original K-5 w/ the same lens. I think the K-5 was back-focusing with it, because I was not used to getting "sharp" results. Anyway, seems like it's a little too sharp with even my kit lens, because just in the first full week that I've had it, I found out to my chagrin that all the people who boasted that they've taken 10,000 shots and not seen a hint of moire, obviously weren't using this particular body...

First, here's a shot that I took the day after I got it, this is what really got me excited about the new "sharper" sensor.

Name:  IMGP1061-rr.jpg
Views: 937
Size:  94.7 KB

A 100% crop of the previous image...

Name:  IMGP1061_cr.jpg
Views: 808
Size:  179.0 KB

That's better than I had dared hope for! I didn't realize that my 18-135 kit lens was even capable of such detail!

Now, I was asked to take some pictures of a family, and I happily obliged (a good chance to use my "new" camera!) So, I tried several different poses, and when I later started reviewing the photos, I found that there was a batch with one certain pose where every picture had extremely noticeable and disturbing patterns. Here's what I was seeing (in varying degrees of awfulness) in all 18 pictures...

Name:  K-5IIs-f7.1-ISO-640-1_200sec-FL_31mm.png
Views: 844
Size:  351.1 KB

(This is a screenshot from Lightroom 5 previewing a RAW file with no adjustments. [It is rather under-exposed, I was having trouble with my speedlights not firing...])

Now, I wonder if this camera is specifically affected, or if anyone else has seen such a dramatic illustration of moire? I searched quite extensively through this forum, and a few people had started threads with their barely visible samples of false color, etc, but I don't think I saw anything quite this bad! (All of said threads quickly degenerated to arguments about whether or not the K-5 IIs is indeed sharper than the K-5 classic...)

I did think to check my camera's firmware, and it turns out it is still running firmware version 1.00 I will update to the latest (1.07) and see if it helps, but I don't know if that would help any.

So, is there anyone else who has gotten such dramatic examples? I didn't take a limited lens and stop it down, and hunt for moire, I was just taking snapshots outdoors in low-ish light, and here are 18 pictures in a row that all are practically ruined!

06-01-2015, 05:21 PM   #2
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,772
That's pretty dramatic, I've never seen anything that bad with mine. Very little in fact but I think the subject means a lot. I shoot mostly food and nature very few people so very little fabric. But if only that pose, maybe it was just the way the light was hitting.

Have your tried the anti-moire slider in LR? Curious if it works, I've never used it.
06-01-2015, 05:22 PM   #3
Pentaxian
12345's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 487
Original Poster
P.S. Here's another example, taken in the living room, wide open at f/3.5.

Name:  K-5IIs-moire.png
Views: 816
Size:  811.0 KB
06-01-2015, 05:38 PM   #4
Loyal Site Supporter
Bruce Clark's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, Victoria
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,768
Hi, I am new to K-5 IIs and I have to say the only time I have seen moire like this is when viewing previews or thumbnails in lightroom. Opening the image and viewing it full size and the effect disappears. Disconcerting yes and I have not see similar effects with the K-7 in similar circumstances. I believe it is an issue of rendering of the various sized thumbnails. I am not convinced it is a real problem - yet. I have just checked an image of mine and yes, in LR preview, it looks bad but expanding the preview, it clears up.

06-01-2015, 05:40 PM   #5
Pentaxian
12345's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 487
Original Poster
Here's your comparison using Lightroom's "Moire" slider on the Adjustment brush.

Before:

Name:  K-5IIs-moire-before.png
Views: 859
Size:  190.0 KB

After:

Name:  K-5IIs-moire-after.png
Views: 771
Size:  180.9 KB

---------- Post added Jun 1st, 2015 at 20:43 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Bruce Clark Quote
Hi, I am new to K-5 IIs and I have to say the only time I have seen moire like this is when viewing previews or thumbnails in lightroom. Opening the image and viewing it full size and the effect disappears. Disconcerting yes and I have not see similar effects with the K-7 in similar circumstances. I believe it is an issue of rendering of the various sized thumbnails. I am not convinced it is a real problem - yet. I have just checked an image of mine and yes, in LR preview, it looks bad but expanding the preview, it clears up.
Thanks for your input! But I was viewing the image zoomed at 100% in Lightroom, not merely a resized thumbnail. I do realize that resizing algorithms do create that effect, and I've seen it in pictures that didn't actually exhibit any moire at 100%, but this is not simply a resizing issue, the ugly brown color wasn't merely created by an algorithm.
06-01-2015, 05:54 PM   #6
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,772
QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote
Here's your comparison using Lightroom's "Moire" slider on the Adjustment brush.
From the small size here that looks like it cleaned up quite well. Does the full size look as good after the adjustment?

And I don't remember but does the AA filter simulator work on DNG or only jpeg? I've never used the AA thing so never paid much attention. I assume you have it turned off? Oh, wait maybe that is only in the k-3.........????
06-01-2015, 06:06 PM   #7
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 362
If there is no moire at 100%, it's not coming from your camera but from your processing or display.
06-01-2015, 06:18 PM   #8
Pentaxian
12345's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 487
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
From the small size here that looks like it cleaned up quite well. Does the full size look as good after the adjustment?
That is full size! A 100% crop of the affected area from Lightroom.

I also thought of the AA simulator, but from all appearances, only the K-3 supports that feature.

QuoteOriginally posted by Glorfindelrb Quote
If there is no moire at 100%, it's not coming from your camera but from your processing or display.
All of the pictures above are screenshots of a RAW file at 100% magnification in Lightroom.

06-01-2015, 06:43 PM   #9
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,772
QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote
That is full size! A 100% crop of the affected area from Lightroom.
Sure, I meant the small web size. It's hard for me see much detail on the screen with my eyes without zooming in. So it does clean up well then.
06-01-2015, 06:52 PM   #10
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,483
Interference (moire') can be generated by the display independent of whether it is present in the image itself. To tell the difference, view at difference sizes.


Steve
06-01-2015, 06:56 PM   #11
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 44
I bought my K5IIs early in 2014. Brought it on a trip to Scotland and Ireland in May (2014). I did find a few shots with the moire but just used LR's moire slider and the problem (with those photos) disappeared. Haven't lost any sleep about it.
06-01-2015, 08:28 PM   #12
Loyal Site Supporter
Bruce Clark's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brookfield, Victoria
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,768
QuoteOriginally posted by 12345 Quote



Thanks for your input! But I was viewing the image zoomed at 100% in Lightroom, not merely a resized thumbnail. I do realize that resizing algorithms do create that effect, and I've seen it in pictures that didn't actually exhibit any moire at 100%, but this is not simply a resizing issue, the ugly brown color wasn't merely created by an algorithm.
Happy to assist. I am not experiencing problems myself but I will follow developments with interest.
06-01-2015, 10:07 PM   #13
Pentaxian
Paul the Sunman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,274
Congratulations on the excellent moire. Most of us have never achieved anything so dramatic. I have hardly seen it at all on my K3 (AA filter turned off). Those fabrics do seem to be particularly susceptible. That's the reason the K5ii was preferred to the K5iis by fashion photographers.

I think I'm still seeing pattern moire in the lapels of the light blue jacket in the cleaned-up image. LR has done very well with the false colour moire though.
06-02-2015, 02:45 AM   #14
Pentaxian
LensBeginner's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,611
I've had moiré a couple of times with my k-01 - which has a rather light OLPF - once with the 40mm XS, once with the M 28/3.5.
Nothing that a couple well-placed brush strokes couldn't cure.
If in doubt, just stop down a bit.
If you can't, don't lose any sleep over it, it's easy to correct in PP.
06-02-2015, 05:03 AM   #15
Site Supporter
dakight's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,178
This is a known issue with the K-5 IIs and is the result of the deliberate decision to remove the AA filter. You get sharper images with more detail but the tradeoff is that you risk moiré in certain circumstances. There is a rather extensive discussion of it with examples in the K-5 IIs review. I personally have never seen it but it can and does happen and it turns out that fabric is one of the trouble spots. It can also occur on bird feathers and even surfaces with regular repeating patterns such as corrugated metal.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, effect, examples, firmware, image, issue, k-5, k-5iis, kit, lens, lightroom, people, photography, pictures, preview, threads, thumbnails
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Pentax D-BG4 Battery Grip for Pentax K-7 K-5 K-5ii K-5iis black-kx Sold Items 3 11-03-2014 08:21 PM
Abstract My first moire encounter with K-5IIs + DA15 carrrlangas Post Your Photos! 4 09-29-2014 06:47 AM
Shutter sound comparison: K-500, K-50, K-5IIs, D600 (normal and quiet) JinDesu Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 11-03-2013 03:24 PM
K-5IIs and moiré at 16MP: would this work? c-meier Pentax DSLR Discussion 18 10-14-2013 04:22 AM
K-5 IIs - moire a problem with architectural photography? JayR Pentax DSLR Discussion 14 07-23-2013 06:34 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top