Dust removal the easy way

marabella · 06-17-2015, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by csa

I agree. What an individual does with his own equipment is his business; however recommending something that could damage other's equipment, is not what I'd recommend, either. There are several very safe methods of cleaning the sensor, that I definitely would never risk mine by using a vacuum.

I partially agree.
I'm sucessfully using this procedure for more than 6 years on my DSLRs (K20D and K-S1)
Phase 1 is cameras' sensor cleaning. If this fails I go to phase 2: A vacuum cleaner.
And luckily I never had to go to Phase 3 or 4: A blower or touching the sensor with adhesives for grabbing moisty dust.

It is only my experience: I onced used a blower to clean the mirror of a SLR. Mirror was clean but now there was more dust inside the viewfinder.

Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe.

In case you don't feel comfortabel or your'e using a more powerful cleaner:
Just try to vacuum a plain sheet of paper from your desktop while reducing the distance to the nozzle.
The detaching distance is your critical spacing to the camera body.

drypenn · 06-17-2015, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by stillshot2

I think my central vac was too powerful and sucked out the sensor, shutter, and mirror of my K30. I finally found them after digging through in the canister. Does anyone know how they go back in?

If you'll attach a lens in the end of the hose, will your vacuum take pictures now?

**csa** · 06-17-2015, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by marabella

Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe.

We all have to use the methods that we feel comfortable with, and that works for us. Your method is just not for me.

**jatrax** · 06-17-2015, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by marabella

Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe.

If you method requires a warning notice I'll pass, thank you. There are far safer methods that are just as effective. I'll continue to use those and you can use yours.

bossa · 06-18-2015, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

I would agree with cgchang, not a good idea. The moving air on a vacuum hose generates a lot of static electricity. All it will take is one spark and your sensor will be toast. There are vacuums made for electronics and as I understand it the hoses are made of material that does not generate static electricity, at least the good ones, so if you are using something like that you should be safe. Your procedure as described is probably safe as long as you keep the hose far enough away. But much too risky for me, how far away is far enough?

I have done work with industrial dust collection systems and we always ran wires to earth ground with the collection tubing because of the huge amount of static electricity generated. Much more than a home vacuum of course but I've gotten shocked enough to respect and safely ground anything moving air. YMMV of course, but I'll stick with my rocket blower.

That argument might be fine if the vacuum was blowing air but sucking it is a completely different scenario as the air hasn't yet gone anywhere near the hose.

noelpolar · 06-18-2015, 01:55 AM

This thread sucks!

(it was bound to be said)

On a more useful note......might be worth considering using a vacum a bit futher away to creat a lowish vacumm whilst using your blower.....

**jatrax** · 06-18-2015, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by bossa

That argument might be fine if the vacuum was blowing air but sucking it is a completely different scenario as the air hasn't yet gone anywhere near the hose.

I don't understand? I'm not arguing anything. Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic. That will leap from the tube to the closest ground. I've been shocked a number of times that way. If the tube is far enough away from anything the spark will not leap, but get it too close and it will. That distance will depend on the potential charge, the humidity of the air, and the materials that make up the tube and the ground. On dust collection systems we either use a wire integrated with the tubing or string a bare copper wire with it. The wire goes to earth ground and drains the static charge. This is only for plastic or other similar materials, metal tubes are conductors and are just grounded themselves.

The OP thinks it is safe to use a vacuum to clean the inside of his camera. I don't think it is based on my experience with vacuums. His tolerance for risk in this area is greater than mine and I wish him well.

bossa · 06-18-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

I don't understand? I'm not arguing anything. Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic. That will leap from the tube to the closest ground. I've been shocked a number of times that way. If the tube is far enough away from anything the spark will not leap, but get it too close and it will. That distance will depend on the potential charge, the humidity of the air, and the materials that make up the tube and the ground. On dust collection systems we either use a wire integrated with the tubing or string a bare copper wire with it. The wire goes to earth ground and drains the static charge. This is only for plastic or other similar materials, metal tubes are conductors and are just grounded themselves.

The OP thinks it is safe to use a vacuum to clean the inside of his camera. I don't think it is based on my experience with vacuums. His tolerance for risk in this area is greater than mine and I wish him well.

I wouldn't go anywhere near my cameras with a vacuum cleaner anyway.

Moving air can generate static anyway so I stand corrected regardless of the plastic tube.

**jatrax** · 06-18-2015, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by bossa

I wouldn't go anywhere near my cameras with a vacuum cleaner anyway. Moving air can generate static anyway so I stand corrected regardless of the plastic tube.

LOL, it's all good.

Still got the Nikon gear I see. Any thoughts on getting the Pentax FF? I handled a D800 for a couple hours and it was too big/heavy for me to like. I'm still not sure if I'll go FF but I'm socking cash away just in case

marabella · 06-18-2015, 05:20 PM

Just one last thought to @jatrax and @bossa: "Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic"

That's exactly the condition when using a recommended blower. Moving air in a plastic tube.
I'm shure that you both place the blower's nozzle inside the body near the sensor. Have you ever seen or felt a discharge?
Additionally I am pretty shure that some of those missile blowers will generate a bigger blast than a reversed operating vacuum.

To be very clear: I wouldn't recommend something that will harm your camera.
The only disadvantage or potentional risk using a vacuum is that the nozzle can accidentally slip into the body.
So please let me repeat: Please keep the nozzle outside the body and make shure that it cannot slide in - under any circumstances.

And please use whatever you want and you feel comfortable with. Don't use a vacuum cleaner if you are uncertain.

**jatrax** · 06-18-2015, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by marabella

That's exactly the condition when using a recommended blower. Moving air in a plastic tube.

Umm, no. Have you ever used one? I suspect not. And one or two squeezes on a rubber bulb is not the same as a vacuum running. And no the nozzle should never be inside the camera body.

I honestly cannot believe we are still arguing about this. If you wish to use a vacuum please do. I do not believe it is safe and will not do so. And I am not "uncertain" I am positive it is a bad idea. I've worked on moving air systems for years and seen with my own eyes what happens when a static charge builds up. But you are welcome to your opinion.

bossa · 06-18-2015, 11:28 PM

☻

Originally posted by jatrax

LOL, it's all good.

Still got the Nikon gear I see. Any thoughts on getting the Pentax FF? I handled a D800 for a couple hours and it was too big/heavy for me to like. I'm still not sure if I'll go FF but I'm socking cash away just in case

I was my mother's carer for seven years up until she died three months ago - I'm a mess right now, and probably shouldn't make any major decisions, but I will probably sell a couple of Nikon cameras (D800E) and a few lenses with an eye to a 645z and/or a Pentax FF though.

My D810 is also a very nice camera that I will probably keep.

Clavius · 06-19-2015, 01:16 AM

To be honest, I'm a big fan of using a vacuum cleaner myself. Rocketblowers work too, but they just blow the dust around. The just then sits there in the mirrorbox waiting for the flapping mirror to stir it around again. I had one experience with the rocket blower where I had dust end up from the sensor to somewhere inside the VF optics. No, not on the focussing screen, somewhere inside the path behind that. It required a 2000w vacuum cleaner to remove it again. I think I had it at 75% power or something. Since then I'm a big fan of vacuum cleaners... And EVFs. LOL!

I've never noticed any static electricity generated by a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, it should be there, just never ever noticed it.

bossa · 06-19-2015, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

To be honest, I'm a big fan of using a vacuum cleaner myself. Rocketblowers work too, but they just blow the dust around. The just then sits there in the mirrorbox waiting for the flapping mirror to stir it around again. I had one experience with the rocket blower where I had dust end up from the sensor to somewhere inside the VF optics. No, not on the focussing screen, somewhere inside the path behind that. It required a 2000w vacuum cleaner to remove it again. I think I had it at 75% power or something. Since then I'm a big fan of vacuum cleaners... And EVFs. LOL!

I've never noticed any static electricity generated by a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, it should be there, just never ever noticed it.

A variable power vac might be fine, and I've thought about it, but I'm getting quite clumsy with age and just wouldn't trust myself to try it. I suspect there's a chance of damaging the shutter if the force is too great.

**Kerrowdown** · 06-19-2015, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by marabella

Dust removal the easy way

For me that's easy, when it's bad enough I put them in to be professionally cleaned.

06-18-2015, 01:55 AM	#21
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	This thread sucks! (it was bound to be said) On a more useful note......might be worth considering using a vacum a bit futher away to creat a lowish vacumm whilst using your blower..... Last edited by noelpolar; 06-18-2015 at 02:07 AM.

06-18-2015, 11:28 PM	#27
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	☻ Originally posted by jatrax LOL, it's all good. Still got the Nikon gear I see. Any thoughts on getting the Pentax FF? I handled a D800 for a couple hours and it was too big/heavy for me to like. I'm still not sure if I'll go FF but I'm socking cash away just in case I was my mother's carer for seven years up until she died three months ago - I'm a mess right now, and probably shouldn't make any major decisions, but I will probably sell a couple of Nikon cameras (D800E) and a few lenses with an eye to a 645z and/or a Pentax FF though. My D810 is also a very nice camera that I will probably keep. Last edited by bossa; 06-19-2015 at 01:24 AM.

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06-17-2015, 06:02 PM	#16
marabella Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 58 Original Poster	Originally posted by csa I agree. What an individual does with his own equipment is his business; however recommending something that could damage other's equipment, is not what I'd recommend, either. There are several very safe methods of cleaning the sensor, that I definitely would never risk mine by using a vacuum. I partially agree. I'm sucessfully using this procedure for more than 6 years on my DSLRs (K20D and K-S1) Phase 1 is cameras' sensor cleaning. If this fails I go to phase 2: A vacuum cleaner. And luckily I never had to go to Phase 3 or 4: A blower or touching the sensor with adhesives for grabbing moisty dust. It is only my experience: I onced used a blower to clean the mirror of a SLR. Mirror was clean but now there was more dust inside the viewfinder. Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe. In case you don't feel comfortabel or your'e using a more powerful cleaner: Just try to vacuum a plain sheet of paper from your desktop while reducing the distance to the nozzle. The detaching distance is your critical spacing to the camera body.

06-17-2015, 06:39 PM	#17
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 963	Originally posted by stillshot2 I think my central vac was too powerful and sucked out the sensor, shutter, and mirror of my K30. I finally found them after digging through in the canister. Does anyone know how they go back in? If you'll attach a lens in the end of the hose, will your vacuum take pictures now?

06-17-2015, 08:22 PM	#18
csa Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Montana mountains Posts: 10,133	Originally posted by marabella Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe. We all have to use the methods that we feel comfortable with, and that works for us. Your method is just not for me.

06-17-2015, 09:01 PM	#19
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by marabella Please thoroughly read my advice and my warning notice in red font and you will be safe. If you method requires a warning notice I'll pass, thank you. There are far safer methods that are just as effective. I'll continue to use those and you can use yours.

06-18-2015, 12:06 AM	#20
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by jatrax I would agree with cgchang, not a good idea. The moving air on a vacuum hose generates a lot of static electricity. All it will take is one spark and your sensor will be toast. There are vacuums made for electronics and as I understand it the hoses are made of material that does not generate static electricity, at least the good ones, so if you are using something like that you should be safe. Your procedure as described is probably safe as long as you keep the hose far enough away. But much too risky for me, how far away is far enough? I have done work with industrial dust collection systems and we always ran wires to earth ground with the collection tubing because of the huge amount of static electricity generated. Much more than a home vacuum of course but I've gotten shocked enough to respect and safely ground anything moving air. YMMV of course, but I'll stick with my rocket blower. That argument might be fine if the vacuum was blowing air but sucking it is a completely different scenario as the air hasn't yet gone anywhere near the hose.

06-18-2015, 07:58 AM	#22
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by bossa That argument might be fine if the vacuum was blowing air but sucking it is a completely different scenario as the air hasn't yet gone anywhere near the hose. I don't understand? I'm not arguing anything. Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic. That will leap from the tube to the closest ground. I've been shocked a number of times that way. If the tube is far enough away from anything the spark will not leap, but get it too close and it will. That distance will depend on the potential charge, the humidity of the air, and the materials that make up the tube and the ground. On dust collection systems we either use a wire integrated with the tubing or string a bare copper wire with it. The wire goes to earth ground and drains the static charge. This is only for plastic or other similar materials, metal tubes are conductors and are just grounded themselves. The OP thinks it is safe to use a vacuum to clean the inside of his camera. I don't think it is based on my experience with vacuums. His tolerance for risk in this area is greater than mine and I wish him well.

06-18-2015, 04:32 PM	#23
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by jatrax I don't understand? I'm not arguing anything. Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic. That will leap from the tube to the closest ground. I've been shocked a number of times that way. If the tube is far enough away from anything the spark will not leap, but get it too close and it will. That distance will depend on the potential charge, the humidity of the air, and the materials that make up the tube and the ground. On dust collection systems we either use a wire integrated with the tubing or string a bare copper wire with it. The wire goes to earth ground and drains the static charge. This is only for plastic or other similar materials, metal tubes are conductors and are just grounded themselves. The OP thinks it is safe to use a vacuum to clean the inside of his camera. I don't think it is based on my experience with vacuums. His tolerance for risk in this area is greater than mine and I wish him well. I wouldn't go anywhere near my cameras with a vacuum cleaner anyway. Moving air can generate static anyway so I stand corrected regardless of the plastic tube.

06-18-2015, 04:50 PM	#24
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by bossa I wouldn't go anywhere near my cameras with a vacuum cleaner anyway. Moving air can generate static anyway so I stand corrected regardless of the plastic tube. LOL, it's all good. Still got the Nikon gear I see. Any thoughts on getting the Pentax FF? I handled a D800 for a couple hours and it was too big/heavy for me to like. I'm still not sure if I'll go FF but I'm socking cash away just in case

06-18-2015, 05:20 PM	#25
marabella Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 58 Original Poster	Just one last thought to @jatrax and @bossa: "Moving air in a plastic tube generates a static charge in the plastic" That's exactly the condition when using a recommended blower. Moving air in a plastic tube. I'm shure that you both place the blower's nozzle inside the body near the sensor. Have you ever seen or felt a discharge? Additionally I am pretty shure that some of those missile blowers will generate a bigger blast than a reversed operating vacuum. To be very clear: I wouldn't recommend something that will harm your camera. The only disadvantage or potentional risk using a vacuum is that the nozzle can accidentally slip into the body. So please let me repeat: Please keep the nozzle outside the body and make shure that it cannot slide in - under any circumstances. And please use whatever you want and you feel comfortable with. Don't use a vacuum cleaner if you are uncertain.

06-18-2015, 05:34 PM	#26
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by marabella That's exactly the condition when using a recommended blower. Moving air in a plastic tube. Umm, no. Have you ever used one? I suspect not. And one or two squeezes on a rubber bulb is not the same as a vacuum running. And no the nozzle should never be inside the camera body. I honestly cannot believe we are still arguing about this. If you wish to use a vacuum please do. I do not believe it is safe and will not do so. And I am not "uncertain" I am positive it is a bad idea. I've worked on moving air systems for years and seen with my own eyes what happens when a static charge builds up. But you are welcome to your opinion.

06-19-2015, 01:16 AM	#28
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	To be honest, I'm a big fan of using a vacuum cleaner myself. Rocketblowers work too, but they just blow the dust around. The just then sits there in the mirrorbox waiting for the flapping mirror to stir it around again. I had one experience with the rocket blower where I had dust end up from the sensor to somewhere inside the VF optics. No, not on the focussing screen, somewhere inside the path behind that. It required a 2000w vacuum cleaner to remove it again. I think I had it at 75% power or something. Since then I'm a big fan of vacuum cleaners... And EVFs. LOL! I've never noticed any static electricity generated by a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, it should be there, just never ever noticed it.

06-19-2015, 01:30 AM	#29
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Clavius To be honest, I'm a big fan of using a vacuum cleaner myself. Rocketblowers work too, but they just blow the dust around. The just then sits there in the mirrorbox waiting for the flapping mirror to stir it around again. I had one experience with the rocket blower where I had dust end up from the sensor to somewhere inside the VF optics. No, not on the focussing screen, somewhere inside the path behind that. It required a 2000w vacuum cleaner to remove it again. I think I had it at 75% power or something. Since then I'm a big fan of vacuum cleaners... And EVFs. LOL! I've never noticed any static electricity generated by a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, it should be there, just never ever noticed it. A variable power vac might be fine, and I've thought about it, but I'm getting quite clumsy with age and just wouldn't trust myself to try it. I suspect there's a chance of damaging the shutter if the force is too great.

06-19-2015, 02:23 AM	#30
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,816	Originally posted by marabella Dust removal the easy way For me that's easy, when it's bad enough I put them in to be professionally cleaned.