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06-15-2015, 09:00 AM   #1
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how exposure compensation works in manual

As I presently understand exposure compensation, if you shoot in Program or aperture priority or shutter priority (or any other mode in which the camera can set one or more of the settings), the camera will vary the aperture or shutter speed or ISO when you set exposure compensation. This would be why a Canon camera I saw the other day would not allow exposure compensation when set on Manual. But, my K5iis allows for exposure compensation even when in manual mode. Setting the exposure compensation to, say, +1, did not change any of the aperture/shutter/ISO settings either in camera or in the EXIF afterwards. This leads to the question, how is exposure compensation working when the photographer controls all of the exposure triangle?

06-15-2015, 09:14 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
As I presently understand exposure compensation, if you shoot in Program or aperture priority or shutter priority (or any other mode in which the camera can set one or more of the settings), the camera will vary the aperture or shutter speed or ISO when you set exposure compensation. This would be why a Canon camera I saw the other day would not allow exposure compensation when set on Manual. But, my K5iis allows for exposure compensation even when in manual mode. Setting the exposure compensation to, say, +1, did not change any of the aperture/shutter/ISO settings either in camera or in the EXIF afterwards. This leads to the question, how is exposure compensation working when the photographer controls all of the exposure triangle?
If you didn't make any changes to the settings, then the exposure should look the same. Exposure compensation just changes the centering of the meter. So say you have a perfect exposure in M mode. Then setting the EC to -1 will make the camera tell you its 1 stop underexposed, even though the exposure will be the same.

This is useful in a few situations. For instance, I always felt like my K-20D underexposed by about 2/3 stop. Instead of always trying to get the meter to the +2/3 mark on the exposure meter, I could dial in +2/3 EC and aim for the center.
06-15-2015, 09:18 AM   #3
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From what I've seen... When in Manual mode - if you use exposure compensation - it simply changes the outcome if you keep the meter at 0

If you have a meter from -5 to 0 to +5

and you have the meter showing at center at 0. And you take a picture in manual mode that is the cameras best guess for the exposure meter -

Now if you know that your shooting in an area where you want to over expose by a stop. but you like to keep the meter at center you could use Exposure compensation and add a stop of light. at that point. If you dial in your settings and you are at 0 in the light meter your really +1 but it would still show 0.

That's what I've seen from playing with the setting in my own camera.

If your mentally used to shooting when the camera hits center on the meter but you know you want to over or under expose that's when I use the exposure compensation to tweak the setting.

I may be wrong but it's what I remember when I've used that option my self.

I don't have any of my DSLRs with me at this time.

Thanks
06-15-2015, 09:26 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
As I presently understand exposure compensation, if you shoot in Program or aperture priority or shutter priority (or any other mode in which the camera can set one or more of the settings), the camera will vary the aperture or shutter speed or ISO when you set exposure compensation. This would be why a Canon camera I saw the other day would not allow exposure compensation when set on Manual. But, my K5iis allows for exposure compensation even when in manual mode. Setting the exposure compensation to, say, +1, did not change any of the aperture/shutter/ISO settings either in camera or in the EXIF afterwards. This leads to the question, how is exposure compensation working when the photographer controls all of the exposure triangle?
Exposure compensation in manual is, or I should say was, a debated issue at the onset of the K Series DSLRs.

I started with an *istD, which allowed for exposure compensation in manual, and this was useful as you can imagine, if you have an exposure error, that is always persistent, on a lens, then even in manual you want to zero out the error, BUT, the K10D, and I believe later cameras, does not use the exposure compensation in manual even if you dial it up. Somebody thought, manual is manual, why, would you ever want to have an automated compensation in manual.

I think they were wrong, in the same manner as those same programmers who decided at the onset of the K5 that insulated lens mounts = no lens installed, hence no diaphragm activation.

Unfortunately, the changes have been made, gradually making the cameras in some regards less useful.

RICOH ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS?

06-15-2015, 10:58 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
Exposure compensation just changes the centering of the meter.
Yep!

QuoteOriginally posted by GryphonPhotoCat Quote
From what I've seen... When in Manual mode - if you use exposure compensation - it simply changes the outcome if you keep the meter at 0
Yep!

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
BUT, the K10D, and I believe later cameras, does not use the exposure compensation in manual even if you dial it up.
Huh? As you note, EV compensation is not available in M mode on the K10D and some other models. After all, manual is manual, right? And with the EV scale nicely visible in the viewfinder, it is easy enough to apply whatever compensation you might need. At least that is the theory, though it does not work so well for the case you give. The matter was resolved on the K20D and subsequent flagship models with behavior being as described above. All Pentax cameras since 2012 (entry and mid-level included) support EV compensation in M mode.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-15-2015 at 11:09 AM.
06-15-2015, 12:02 PM   #6
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Easy enough to determine the EFFECT of any adjustment with a few test shots -- and it's the effect that's important.
06-15-2015, 12:35 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yep!



Yep!



Huh? As you note, EV compensation is not available in M mode on the K10D and some other models. After all, manual is manual, right? And with the EV scale nicely visible in the viewfinder, it is easy enough to apply whatever compensation you might need. At least that is the theory, though it does not work so well for the case you give. The matter was resolved on the K20D and subsequent flagship models with behavior being as described above. All Pentax cameras since 2012 (entry and mid-level included) support EV compensation in M mode.
The K-01 does not, which I miss. It is very useful when using manual K glass in M mode where you use the green button to set the shutter speed. On the K-5, I can dial in any Ev Comp for those lenses and it then is having a real practical effect, whereas without that feature (like on the K-01) I need to manually move the exposure up or down every time I re-meter...
06-15-2015, 01:12 PM   #8
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The K-x does not allow EV compensation in M mode either. And I believe it's not available on my K-30 either.

06-15-2015, 02:23 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
This leads to the question, how is exposure compensation working when the photographer controls all of the exposure triangle?
Exposure compensation doesn't do anything unless at least one side of the exposure triangle is controlled by the camera, but Pentax Hyper-Manual mode includes some automatic features that can be combined with exposure compensation.
The green button can be used in manual mode for setting exposure. And this can become a very powerful feature combined with exposure compensation.

I often use exposure compensation in manual mode for simplifying setting exposure.
When using spot meter the exposure compensation in manual mode can be really useful.

For instance if I use manual mode with green button set for TV shift, using spot meter, and dial in exposure comp for spot metering on highlight.
All I have to do to get the exposure I want is to set the aperture and ISO, point the spot meter on the highlight and then press green button for correct exposure. I can be out a whole day shooting snowy landscapes and the only thing I have to do to set exposure is to press the green button.

And a big advantage in using manual mode is that I can choose when to do a new metering. When using a semi automatic mode the camera will meter before each image is captured.

This works at least on the advanced Pentax models.

Last edited by Fogel70; 06-15-2015 at 03:00 PM.
06-15-2015, 02:37 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady95 Quote
The K-x does not allow EV compensation in M mode either. And I believe it's not available on my K-30 either.
The K-x does not allow EV comp in M mode. Neither does the K-r or K-m/K-2000. Your K-30 does in the manner discussed above. With the exception of the K10D, I believe that all Pentax dSLRs having two control dials support EV comp in M mode.


Steve
06-15-2015, 02:37 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
The K-01 does not, which I miss. It is very useful when using manual K glass in M mode where you use the green button to set the shutter speed. On the K-5, I can dial in any Ev Comp for those lenses and it then is having a real practical effect, whereas without that feature (like on the K-01) I need to manually move the exposure up or down every time I re-meter...
Sorry, I always forget about the K-01.


Steve
06-15-2015, 02:48 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I think they were wrong, in the same manner as those same programmers who decided at the onset of the K5 that insulated lens mounts = no lens installed, hence no diaphragm activation.
Yes, that one is a puzzle, though it has been thought to be an unintended side-effect of some hack intended to determine lens compatibility. One might argue that since Pentax made no K-mount lenses that would not short the data contact, this is no crime. I disagree and feel it is a dumb hack regardless of how many lenses are out there having non-conductive bases.


Steve
06-15-2015, 02:51 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by sholtzma Quote
This leads to the question, how is exposure compensation working when the photographer controls all of the exposure triangle?
The intuitive approach would be that it work as if EV comp was not set, meaning that the triangle itself is transparently biased left or right. That is the behavior with current model Pentax bodies.


Steve
06-15-2015, 03:15 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Your K-30 does in the manner discussed above.
I don't use the green button even with manual focus lenses.
06-15-2015, 03:20 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady95 Quote
I don't use the green button even with manual focus lenses.
With A contact lenses you should have a EV scale in M mode. With EV comp applied the EV of the center should shift up or down according to the setting. It is no big deal. Coming originally from a K10D, I was unaware of the feature until reading this thread.


Steve
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