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06-15-2015, 09:33 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
You can't take photos with money.
My car is twenty years old and worth 2% of it's original price. On the other hand, everything still works fine and i've had twenty years of being able get where I want.
Same with everything. You could avoid this somewhat just by buying second hand...
Absolutely. If you are a bargain hunter, don't buy brand new in the first 9 months of the product's release. Especially for camera bodies.. those are just specialized computers. As technology improves, the desirability of the older technology is diminished and thus prices decrease as more people look for the next big thing. That or buy brand new and hold on to it until it no longer takes photos anymore. The more you wait, the more generations of technology pass by and the more bang for your buck.

Lenses, of course, fair better.. but those also still decrease with time too. I suppose photography gear isn't generally an investment option. haha

I try to keep a camera body for at least 2 years and buy at least 1 generation back. I learned that the hard way buying a K-30 for 600 then selling it just a couple of months later for 300.. ouch. Now I wait for the sales (usually around BF) or buy second hand.

The retail brand new price is for the people who feel they HAVE to have it now and/or just have the money to spend on it. If you have patience, you can get it for less. But like someone already said.. all that time waiting means all that time without it. Just have to weigh what is more important for YOU in your situation.

06-15-2015, 09:37 PM   #17
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APS-C is so competitive, Full frame though seems to be different. From my limited view, even old FF Dslr's hold their value. For example, the Nikon D800 if in pretty new condition will set you back a lot(Close to 2 grand). And seeing as how Pentax will probably be aiming it's Full Frame at the current D810 it will always be priced to compete with it.
06-15-2015, 11:15 PM   #18
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I got my K7 six or seven years ago and will keep using it until it can't be repaired any more. Love your camera just like you love your lenses and don't worry about the latest models - until the FF comes out. ; )
06-15-2015, 11:18 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
I have been wondering how good are this mayor discounts with the Pentax products.. on one hand this means that many new costumers will have the chance to get new equipment at great prices.. spread the brand and perhaps grow their market.. but on the other hand ( that is where many of us are ), feels like buying a new Pentax equipment is the worst deal ever because prices drop way to fast.. for example when i got my K3 i got it at around $1200 including the grip and the flu card.. that was actually with an Adorama deal that had a discount.. now we can see the K3 at just $674 and the K50 at just $277.. so, in my case for exaple just a year later the camera droped 50% the original value, this also means that when we will sell this cameras the reselling price will be nothing compared with the original, and perhaps we can understand this with really old models. but i think that we cant consider a K3 ( for example ) an old camera at all.

So this is something that Ricoh have to check it out.. is it a company (Ricoh) thing..or is it a retailer thing?? I think that having a fair resell price is really important for a brand to have happy costumers, and with this mayor droping prices is not helping this cause.

What should happen when the FF comes out.. lets say that it comes at $2500.. will this mean that a year and a half or something like this the camera will cost $1200 +/- (new) ?? .. and 2nd hand.. around $800 ??..

I think that this strategy work for getting new clients (perhaps Ricoh is aiming for that), and for people that have old models to update their bodys but it doenst help at all at the people that goes for the latest camera when they come out.
Depreciation of Pentax gear is quite excessive at the moment. Everyone realizes that DA glass for APS-C sensors is a dead end road. K3 drops in price by up to 50% compared to K3 II with same sensor and same AF. Try selling Pentax gear on eBay and you realize that nobody wants it or only for extremely low price. The official announcement of fullframe killed the remaining marked for DA gear almost a year before fullframe may show up.
The road from DA glass do D-FA is not well prepaired by Pentax. K3 II is not there to keep APS-C users happy. Buying a 70-200/2.8 and a FF camera from Pentax costs more than buying from the competition with well established FF cameras and similar zooms. Without a real upgrade option Pentax will lose even more customers.

A digital camera cannot be compared with a 20 year old car or film cameras... come on get real. Even Nikon will not price D810+ to the Pentax FF model - what Pentax FF model by the way. We get a price rumor before we get a name...

06-15-2015, 11:32 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Depreciation of Pentax gear is quite excessive at the moment. Everyone realizes that DA glass for APS-C sensors is a dead end road. K3 drops in price by up to 50% compared to K3 II with same sensor and same AF. Try selling Pentax gear on eBay and you realize that nobody wants it or only for extremely low price. The official announcement of fullframe killed the remaining marked for DA gear almost a year before fullframe may show up.
The road from DA glass do D-FA is not well prepaired by Pentax. K3 II is not there to keep APS-C users happy. Buying a 70-200/2.8 and a FF camera from Pentax costs more than buying from the competition with well established FF cameras and similar zooms. Without a real upgrade option Pentax will lose even more customers.

A digital camera cannot be compared with a 20 year old car or film cameras... come on get real. Even Nikon will not price D810+ to the Pentax FF model - what Pentax FF model by the way. We get a price rumor before we get a name...
In my case I like to buy the newest body a little after it comes out ( except the K3ii cuz im not interested in APS-C anymore, i will wait until the FF is out).. but at least now, selling used pentax cameras is really hard to do, and for the prices that are.. looks like is better to keep the cameras as 2nd bodys than to sell them because prices are wey to low.

Maybe, in the future when the Pentax Market grows ( if it finally happens ), this could change some how... One thing is for sure.. by the time that get the FF and if the price goes down really low, i wont buy another body until something breaks in the camera.
06-15-2015, 11:51 PM   #21
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buy it when you can and enjoy, never look back!
Same is true for almost every electronic device, phones, PCs, Tablets, etc. if you look at prices on a regular basis you will not own and use any of those things...
be happy, that at the moment you bought it, the price was right.

I do understand that when on a tight budget you will have to carefully decide what to buy and what to sell... be happy with what you get...
i tried to sell my K-7 several times but it never found a new home... so its still with me...

Last edited by max_pyne; 06-16-2015 at 12:02 AM.
06-16-2015, 12:05 AM   #22
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I sometimes wonder why they apparently have to drop the prices, while the competition does not. I mean, the Canon EOS 7D was around for what, five years? So even if it dropped like 30% in price, that's nothing compared to what Pentax has done in the same timeframe. I mean, the K-7 is worth maybe only a few hundred dollars now.
06-16-2015, 12:21 AM - 1 Like   #23
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I'm still paying my cameras off because most of what I make goes out towards other bills and rent and that but basically I've made back what I spent to get them in terms of what having them means to my business. They're my work tools and I don't care much about resale value because I seldom if ever sell them. Everything we buy depreciates including Pentax gear.

This is nothing new or Ricoh's doing. Every DSLR type camera I have, and most of them are pre-Ricoh, is worth half or even less than the retail price at debut. I wouldn't have them otherwise. If gear prices didn't drop that far I would not have my cameras because I get most of my gear used. I have to wait till I can afford them. I'm pretty happy when I see retail on a DSLR or lens I want finally drop to a price I can afford actually.

I see this all the time on the doll boards too. Doll people who buy brand new at higher retail prices then moan and groan a year or two later when they can't get half of what they paid for it. They expect to get back all their money when they sell and of course they don't get it because by then most of those dolls are going for clearance prices. They're lucky if they can sell at all.

Older gear always drops fast. Stores capitalize on the "newness" factor as long as they can, but they have to be realistic too. People who didn't jump first, who have the patience to wait until they can get the price they can afford aren't going to pay as much as people who have new gear fever. They will have to sell lower and lower to keep the orders coming in or they will end up stuck with a bunch of stock they can't move. So of course the price drops and so does the value on the gear that people have already bought. It's not just Pentax. When it's new it's hot and it's more expensive, end of model life cycle, new one's coming out? It's clearance time!!!!! Me, I live for clearance sales. :P

My THREE DSLR's cost what one K3 would have cost me new, plus I got lenses to boot. Are they worth a whole lot to resell? Nope, but I don't care because I am busying using them and not planning to sell them anytime soon, just like I am too busy enjoying my collector's dolls not worrying about how much value they still have. Doing that it's just pointless, I think. You'll ultimately just drive yourself crazy watching the value crash. Not worth it, shrug...

06-16-2015, 12:52 AM   #24
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Part of the problem is maybe the ever shrinking camera market. So offeren package deals en final sales offers is just a way for camera brands to keep the market a live. I don't think it works in the long way since customers ten to wait for the discount days in the Near future. I did wonder why the K-S1 is so expensive, that should be a 199 dollar steel.
06-16-2015, 01:41 AM   #25
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All I know is that if Sony drops prices on its products like that then the Pentaxians here usually say something like: "Their products are so bad, they can't even give it away." So I guess these cheap Pentax cameras is a bad thing, apparently they can't seem to move the units otherwise.
06-16-2015, 02:09 AM   #26
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I feel your pain I bought both K-50 and k-3 in under a year ago and prices are but a smidge now what I payed for them but in saying that I guess that is what you pay for, new technology and I use my equipment I mean really use it my k-3 I think I must be close into 10 of thousands shutter count and it's still going strong mind you my k-50 replacement would not have seen a thousand so....... I guess the answer is realise that it is going to come down at some stage regardless of brand and enjoy it now and use it like tomorrow doesn't exist.
06-16-2015, 02:47 AM   #27
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I think there are several things at play here. First of all, Pentax is trying to make certain that old models don't stick around long past the point that they should mostly be sold. It is hard enough to sell cameras versus Nikon and Canon, you don't need to add a bunch of copies of a couple of generations old camera bodies sitting on shelves to make your current models not move. Another thing is that cameras are electronics and over time the price of electronics items tends to go down. A final thing is that Pentax is clearly trying to build up a base and has been willing to cut prices on camera bodies down a lot in order to get folks to purchase them. Lens prices will drop during discount time periods somewhat, but other than consumer zooms and the DA 35 f2.4/50mm f1.8 primes I don't think you could call any of them low prices.

I don't know how many people buy their gear with an eye towards reselling. I usually do sell my old camera bodies when I purchase a new one and I suppose you could say I take a loss, since I tend to purchase two to three months after a camera is released (after all the bugs are worked out). But it isn't an investment. It is gear that allows me to take photos of my kids and landscapes and I enjoy that very much. My cameras usually have plenty of life left when I sell them, I just want a newer body, but there are plenty of folks here who are still shooting with K10s and K20s. Their cameras may not be "worth" very much, but they still take great photos and that is probably the important thing.
06-16-2015, 06:09 AM   #28
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RP flooding the bodies market might be a viable strategy of expanding customer base. I don't see lens prices dropping as much, at least in Europe. The ones I considered buying (DA15, FA31, DFA100WR) are pretty much as expensive as they were last year.
06-16-2015, 06:36 AM   #29
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Prices on everything drop, whether for being used or for being new but older model. Ricoh wants to get as much money from as many people as possible for as long as they can. Prices are high when new because they know there are some early adopters willing to buy in. If you have the good fortune of buying in early and paying more then why should anyone stop you? Pay full price and enjoy the status of being "first". The extra time you will have with your new gear has to be worth something. Once that market dries up Ricoh wants to capture the next market - the fans waiting for a discount of some kind. So, the price falls. Once that group dries up they go after the value minded shoppers and the price falls again. This continues all the way down until they get to the bargain hunter. Now you can say they maximized their profit.

One could argue they ought to know what the average selling price would be across the cycle and simply set it to that. But what if the market takes off? What if Ricoh could have made the price the average + $100? Too late now ... can't raise the price. Now they're leaving money at the table. It's better to start a little higher (not too high, though) and come down.

The used market simply follows the new market. If the new market plunges for any reason then so will the used market.

Consider too that Ricoh has made back all their R&D costs on many products already. The FA 50mm f/1.4 is a perfect example. That lens has been around since 1991. At this point the price is dictated by the cost of materials, labor, logistics, and greed. Can the price come down? Sure! But, look at the FA Limited lenses. They've been around for a while too. Materials are no doubt a bit pricier and the labor may be more intense. Demand is very high though so the price is significant higher. Those won't come in price too much.
06-16-2015, 07:04 AM - 1 Like   #30
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Aside from professionals who need the gear to make a living, cameras are just a luxury for the rest of us. In that sense there is no such thing as overpriced or underpriced. We all pay what can for our toys. I couldn't afford $1300 for a new K-3, or more accurately, it wasn't worth it to me at $1300. At $800 it was worth it to me. Basically you pay a $500-$600 premium for having it +/-12 months earlier than the more frugal folks. And yeah, I think it's silly to buy anything with resale value in mind. Maybe you'll take a risk on something if you know you'll get good value on a turn around sale in case you don't like it,...that makes sense. But frankly, I'm fundamentally against the whole notion of buying something with a predetermined resale in mind, using it to its fullest for a year, and expecting a certain percentage of what you paid back on the resale. Rubs me the wrong way.

Last edited by Bunch; 06-22-2015 at 07:13 AM.
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