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06-25-2015, 02:46 AM   #1
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Going green....

Hiya,

I'm just putting feelers out about my pentax k-50...

This probably seems like a really basic question but.....
I've never had this problem before and I'm clueless as to what's causing it....

A little while ago I upgraded from a K-x to a K-50 and while I love it in most situations I have found a lot of my photos are getting a green/yellow tinge, especially when I'm taking photos in evening sunlight, usually when I'm tying to get photos in that "golden hour" well... golden hour turns into green hour....

I have tried fiddling with the white balance with no luck, I've also tried different settings (variations on automatic and manual) with no luck, if I get the "greeny bits" right (usually skin tones and similar hues) then everything else is out, I have tried resetting it and all that, no luck.

I have the same problem in JPEG and RAW, in either format it's taking a lot of post processing to fix the problem...
Worst thing is, it's totally unpredictable, I've been "trying" different settings but it only happens in certain light situations..... Just to make it more infuriating I took my mobile phone out of my pocket and took a few snaps with it of the same scene and got true looking colours with it....


Any help on this would be much appreciated....

06-25-2015, 02:55 AM   #2
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can you please upload the pictures showing this green problem. Please with EXIF
06-25-2015, 04:04 AM   #3
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No worries

The only ones I have to hand are all JPEG, I actually deleted my others so only have recent disasters which were taken with pre-set settings (my go to when dealing with livestock).

It's not so obvious here but that young bull on the right shouldn't have that insipid tone and the one on the right has a slight greenish yellow tone to the nice ginger highlights above his eye - this is where it's least noticeable just in an everyday snap.
f/7.1 exposure time 1/500sec. ISO-400 White balance automatic, taken on action setting.



I cropped this one down because I didn't want to show the faces of the people sitting in the wagon, green tinge clearly showing on the wagon which should have been a softer creamy colour - both the people in the wagon looked like they had jaundice in the photo.
f/11 Exposure time 1/200sec ISO-200 white balance automatic. photo taken on automatic.




Beautiful rich orange and gold sunset...... not...
f/11 Exposure time 1/250sec. ISO-200 White balance automatic, taken on automatic.



This used to be my forte, taking photos of stormy skies with strong sunlight at my back always used to create wonderful golden tones and dramatic skies... well the sky is right here but not the golden grass! even the details of the horse are completely off..... this is where I took my phone out of my pocket and captured the photo I wanted.....
f/7.1 exposure time 1/125 sec. ISO-400 automatic white balance, taken on automatic.

Obviously I don't always shoot on automatic, it's just that I have been lately for various reasons, I still have the same problem on other settings.
06-25-2015, 04:27 AM   #4
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To be honest I do not see anything bad (color related) about those images but I might be too tolerant.
Have your tried calibrating your monitor?

06-25-2015, 04:36 AM   #5
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Thank you
Monitor is correctly calibrated, I have also looked at them on another monitor, my phone and even on the preview on the camera....
The thing that's bugging me is that I take a photo with the k-50 and something's off.... then I put the same lens on my busted up old k-x and it captures the colours perfectly (so does my phone)

Admittedly it's not terribly noticeable.... but it's there where it never used to be and it's driving me crazy lol

Maybe I just got too used to how things turned out with my old camera and I'm just expecting the new one to behave the same way?
06-25-2015, 04:36 AM   #6
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hm, i cant see something wrong... but it could be due to compression can you try to do a crop at 100% & 200% (in the "green" area) and upload that. You could just zoom in and make a print screen or a snipping. or can you share one of those pictures via e.g. Dropbox so we can have a look at the orig.

---------- Post added 25-06-15 at 13:44 ----------

and you could take a phone-picture of your color setting of your K-50 and K-X or have you compared them and set them to the same?
are the colors off in both RAW and JPEG; Raw after processing to an JPEG do they look the same if you process the raw in camera or via PC/MAC software?

Last edited by max_pyne; 06-25-2015 at 04:46 AM.
06-25-2015, 06:50 AM   #7
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I'd like to see the same photo taken with your phone to be able to compare the two, if possible.
06-25-2015, 07:28 AM   #8
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Have you tried shooting RAW with both cameras (same lens, position, iso, exp settings etc) and then matching the WB in your development software of choice?

06-25-2015, 07:38 AM   #9
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Suggestion.... Stop using automatic and start using preset WB for your lighting. Auto may have a tendency towards a blue cast. Otherwise custom WB balance for daylight (5600k) and adjust in post. Or custom Wb as needed. I lean towards thinking it may be more your post processing software initially compounds the problem.
06-25-2015, 09:41 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Suggestion.... Stop using automatic and start using preset WB for your lighting. Auto may have a tendency towards a blue cast. Otherwise custom WB balance for daylight (5600k) and adjust in post. Or custom Wb as needed. I lean towards thinking it may be more your post processing software initially compounds the problem.
Yes! My K30 usually chooses around 5200 for WB when auto on the daylight. Try manual..it's just one button and a few clicks with a dial.
06-25-2015, 06:21 PM   #11
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Most of these photos are taken in late afternoon light which should produce warmer tones. I can see what you mean with the horse and the buggy. Not so problematic in the cattle in my opinion, I will put that one down to personal preferences and the fact that you were there. The cloud scene is anyone's guess. I suspect the AWB is trying to "Correct" this late afternoon light with unpredictable results. Looking at the horse image. On my monitor the clouds look perfectly grey. By correcting the colour by using the white patch on the horse, the clouds turn blue but the grass becomes a nicer yellow. see below.I am not saying my corrected version is 100% right but it illustrates the point you are making.

That you say you are getting different results with different cameras is only to be expected. Different sensors, different lenses, different algorithms, in different conditions must produce different results. Especially on JPEGS which have their own set of in-camera algorithms, user preferences and scene modes etc.

In normal conditions these auto settings are fine for most people, most of the time. Sadly it all starts to fall down at the extremes. You have noticed this and can see the errors that are introduced and you are not pleased. To me, this indicates you are more than ready to advance to a higher level.
  • I suggest that you shoot RAW.
  • Stop using AWB altogether and while the sun is in the sky, use Daylight as the WB setting. At least then you have a known setting from which to start.
  • While adjusting your camera white balance, also check to see if a setting called "White Balance Adjustable Range" is set to OFF. This wonderful feature can add a subtle variation to the WB even if manual WB is set.
  • Next go to your processing software and check that settings called "Auto Tone" or similar are OFF.
  • With the camera and software back to "normal", daylight will be daylight. Late afternoon sunlight will appear warmer as it should without the camera of software trying to correct it back towards midday light.
It may seem a bit more work but the results will show, especially in extreme lighting conditions.

If you want to continue using jpegs, that is fine but check that your Custom Image settings on the K-50 are the same as the K-X. Bright, Natural, Landscape etc. Each have their own defaults and user defined settings for Saturation, Hue, Contrast etc. Get both camera together if you can and set the K-50 to match the K-X. Unless you are using identical settings on both cameras, you will have no chance of getting identical results. Even if the settings are the same, you might still see some differences.

Good luck
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06-25-2015, 06:43 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bruce Clark Quote
Most of these photos are taken in late afternoon light which should produce warmer tones. I can see what you mean with the horse and the buggy. Not so problematic in the cattle in my opinion, I will put that one down to personal preferences and the fact that you were there. The cloud scene is anyone's guess. I suspect the AWB is trying to "Correct" this late afternoon light with unpredictable results. Looking at the horse image. On my monitor the clouds look perfectly grey. By correcting the colour by using the white patch on the horse, the clouds turn blue but the grass becomes a nicer yellow. see below.I am not saying my corrected version is 100% right but it illustrates the point you are making.

That you say you are getting different results with different cameras is only to be expected. Different sensors, different lenses, different algorithms, in different conditions must produce different results. Especially on JPEGS which have their own set of in-camera algorithms, user preferences and scene modes etc.

In normal conditions these auto settings are fine for most people, most of the time. Sadly it all starts to fall down at the extremes. You have noticed this and can see the errors that are introduced and you are not pleased. To me, this indicates you are more than ready to advance to a higher level.
  • I suggest that you shoot RAW.
  • Stop using AWB altogether and while the sun is in the sky, use Daylight as the WB setting. At least then you have a known setting from which to start.
  • While adjusting your camera white balance, also check to see if a setting called "White Balance Adjustable Range" is set to OFF. This wonderful feature can add a subtle variation to the WB even if manual WB is set.
  • Next go to your processing software and check that settings called "Auto Tone" or similar are OFF.
  • With the camera and software back to "normal", daylight will be daylight. Late afternoon sunlight will appear warmer as it should without the camera of software trying to correct it back towards midday light.
It may seem a bit more work but the results will show, especially in extreme lighting conditions.

If you want to continue using jpegs, that is fine but check that your Custom Image settings on the K-50 are the same as the K-X. Bright, Natural, Landscape etc. Each have their own defaults and user defined settings for Saturation, Hue, Contrast etc. Get both camera together if you can and set the K-50 to match the K-X. Unless you are using identical settings on both cameras, you will have no chance of getting identical results. Even if the settings are the same, you might still see some differences.

Good luck
Bruce I could hug you for that!
Like I said in my initial post I had tried many many different settings, combinations, manual, auto, RAW ect ect and still kept getting undesirable results but with your suggestions it's giving me somewhere to start - as I was flying blind trying to find a solution.
I completely understand that different cameras would produce different results, I mentioned it to kinda illustrate the point that what I was seeing actually cold be captured if that makes sense (in other words what I was seeing wasn't just a figment of my imagination lol)

---------- Post added 06-26-15 at 11:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by max_pyne Quote
hm, i cant see something wrong... but it could be due to compression can you try to do a crop at 100% & 200% (in the "green" area) and upload that. You could just zoom in and make a print screen or a snipping. or can you share one of those pictures via e.g. Dropbox so we can have a look at the orig.

---------- Post added 25-06-15 at 13:44 ----------

and you could take a phone-picture of your color setting of your K-50 and K-X or have you compared them and set them to the same?
are the colors off in both RAW and JPEG; Raw after processing to an JPEG do they look the same if you process the raw in camera or via PC/MAC software?
Thank you Max, unfortunately I can't do the comparison as I don't have both cameras to hand at the moment, I have had problems with the colour in both RAW and JPEG and even in RAW it's taking extensive post processing to correct the colour.

I'll have a go at the snipping though, it's most noticeable on the horse so I'll pick him out

---------- Post added 06-26-15 at 12:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by AldaCZ Quote
Yes! My K30 usually chooses around 5200 for WB when auto on the daylight. Try manual..it's just one button and a few clicks with a dial.
Thanks guys like I said in my original posts, I was getting the same results when shooting in manual, I only had shots I'd taken on auto to hand when someone asked to see what was happening.

I'm trying out some of the suggestions stated in the thread though, hopefully I'll get some nice golden light to try them out again soon and see if the nice gold goes green/yellow again
06-25-2015, 08:29 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kurrawinya Quote
Bruce I could hug you for that!
You are welcome.

I first came across this when doing an assignment for a course. The assignment was to take several images of an 18% grey card at various exposures to a) set a manual white balance and b) determine the dynamic range of the camera. To get that grey card to look grey, (equal red, blue and green) was very frustrating and seemingly impossible.

That is until I found a thread on this forum describing the effect of "White Balance Adjustable Range" Surprisingly I found this setting also affected RAW images which seems contrary to logic. It was almost as if the camera refused to accept that a scene could be totally 18% grey and would do anything to fix it. (it fixed it by adding a colour cast or noise). Switch this off and similarly "Auto Tone" in Adobe Camera Raw and presto, grey became grey. Better still white was white and black was black with almost no noise across the full dynamic range of the camera (10 stops).

On an average scene in daylight with a good range of colours, light and dark, the auto functions seemed to work quite well and did not cause much grief. That after all is what they do, try to get a scene to average conditions. But as soon as one moves from the average scene towards one extreme or the other things start to unravel.
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