What do you get if you want a small and cheap flash for K-3ii?

Not a Number · 06-28-2015, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by mdave13

Vivitar 285HV Vivitar 285HV Flash 233965 B&H Photo Video

I wouldn't exactly call the 285 small.

snostorm · 06-28-2015, 03:10 PM

I think the most versatile very small flash on the market presently is probably the Metz 26 AF1. Unlike most or all of the others, AFAIK, It can also be used as a P TTL slave, and has a manual mode instead of being just a P TTL flash. I don't think any current flash can be used as a master/controller for P TTL wireless remote. The 26 AF1 is also probably the most convenient size as it can fit in a shirt pocket, but still has variable angled bounce capabilities. It is, however more pricey (@ $150 USD) than most of the other compact P TTL flashes available. At this time, I'd say that this is the flash I'd get if I had the K-3 II as can apparently also be used as a wireless remote flash with bodies that have onboard flash with master/controller wireless remote capabilities. I'll probably pick one up even if I don't go with the K-3 II, to use mostly as a wireless P TTL remote. P TTL is not the best system, but it works for my relatively simple needs.

Metz also makes a more compact flash, the 24 AF1, which looks along the lines of the Pentax 201 FG. AFAIK, it's a rebadge of a Chinese (?) unit that is also sold under a number of different brands for a lot less $$. It has a variable angle reflector, so can be bounced, and can only be used in P TTL mode, and only camera or with a P TTL compatible cord. Because of the physical design, it's not really pocketable, unless you have pretty loose pockets, but it is small and light.

I'm hoping that Pentax will offer a very compact solution that will allow wireless remote flash for use with bodies that don't have onboard flash included -- and here I'm assuming that there will be more of these coming in the future.

SOldBear · 06-29-2015, 12:12 PM

The best value, IMHO, is a decent copy of a Sunpak 444D (or its European twin 36DX). Current running price is about $40.

No p-TTL, which I don't use any way, preferring thyristor auto mode, but solid, compact, powerful, tilt & swivel. It can also take high voltage power supply.

Next in line is Pentax AF280T.

If you want wireless, get an RF remote system to use with the flash.

**UncleVanya** · 06-29-2015, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by snostorm

I think the most versatile very small flash on the market presently is probably the Metz 26 AF1. Unlike most or all of the others, AFAIK, It can also be used as a P TTL slave, and has a manual mode instead of being just a P TTL flash. I don't think any current flash can be used as a master/controller for P TTL wireless remote. The 26 AF1 is also probably the most convenient size as it can fit in a shirt pocket, but still has variable angled bounce capabilities. It is, however more pricey (@ $150 USD) than most of the other compact P TTL flashes available. At this time, I'd say that this is the flash I'd get if I had the K-3 II as can apparently also be used as a wireless remote flash with bodies that have onboard flash with master/controller wireless remote capabilities. I'll probably pick one up even if I don't go with the K-3 II, to use mostly as a wireless P TTL remote. P TTL is not the best system, but it works for my relatively simple needs.

Metz also makes a more compact flash, the 24 AF1, which looks along the lines of the Pentax 201 FG. AFAIK, it's a rebadge of a Chinese (?) unit that is also sold under a number of different brands for a lot less $$. It has a variable angle reflector, so can be bounced, and can only be used in P TTL mode, and only camera or with a P TTL compatible cord. Because of the physical design, it's not really pocketable, unless you have pretty loose pockets, but it is small and light.

I'm hoping that Pentax will offer a very compact solution that will allow wireless remote flash for use with bodies that don't have onboard flash included -- and here I'm assuming that there will be more of these coming in the future.

I can't find any manual for the AF 201 FG but wouldn't that be a bit more compact and doesn't it provide the P-TTL master function?

stevebrot · 06-29-2015, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by wstruth

Pentax AF201FG
I have it and just posted a review after I saw your post. Its a great little flash. and am very happy with it.

Yes, it or any of the inexpensive Pentax P-TTL compatible units (Bower, Vivitar, Metz, Polaroid, etc.) for under $100. Of course there are also the various available speedlights and auto-thyristor units that work quite nicely as non-dedicated flash.

Steve

magkelly · 06-29-2015, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Holga 12S Flash with 5 Color Filter

Or get the more professional version, which costs 17.99

Kids would love this, laugh.

snostorm · 06-29-2015, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

I can't find any manual for the AF 201 FG but wouldn't that be a bit more compact and doesn't it provide the P-TTL master function?

I've never seen this touted as a feature, but I could be wrong. It does have the advantages of WR, and unlike the Chinese units sold under numerous brand names, it can be used in full manual mode though.

As far as being compact, IMO it's a bit thick to carry all the time in a pocket which is what I'd want to do with a camera with no onboard flash, or for use as a very portable P TTL wireless remote.

With the high ISO performance of the latest generations of sensors, I find little reason to lug a higher powered flash around in my kit. For me, GN @ 20 fills most of my needs, and if I can easily slip it in a pocket, then all the better because it's no real problem having it with me at all times.

Scott

**UncleVanya** · 06-29-2015, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by snostorm

I've never seen this touted as a feature, but I could be wrong. It does have the advantages of WR, and unlike the Chinese units sold under numerous brand names, it can be used in full manual mode though.

As far as being compact, IMO it's a bit thick to carry all the time in a pocket which is what I'd want to do with a camera with no onboard flash, or for use as a very portable P TTL wireless remote.

With the high ISO performance of the latest generations of sensors, I find little reason to lug a higher powered flash around in my kit. For me, GN @ 20 fills most of my needs, and if I can easily slip it in a pocket, then all the better because it's no real problem having it with me at all times.

Scott

In other discussions about how to fill the gap the K3ii's lack of flash caused the 201 has been the answer most often. P-TTL Auto is a mode supported but that doesn't tell me if that's able to master or just the regular P-TTL mode.

Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master?

stevebrot · 06-29-2015, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by ronniemac

I got the Pentax AF201FG at the same time as the K-3 II because it is small, simple, very portable (truly shirt pocket)

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master?

Well, if ronniemac is following this thread, perhaps, he will weigh in. The feature, if supported, would be a menu item of some sort. FWIW, the flash feature summary of the K-3II manual (p 91) states that neither wireless or slave are supported with the AF201FG when used on that camera. IMHO, I think it is doubtful that it is capable of coordinating P-TTL. That is pretty typical of the less expensive flashes, regardless of brand, that support Pentax P-TTL protocol.

Steve

matt_lin18 · 06-29-2015, 11:58 PM

Surprised that only one person here has mentioned a Yongnuo. Get the Yongnuo 560IV.

Yongnuo YN560-IV Speedlite YN-560IV B&H Photo Video

Really cheap but a powerful flash. It's all manual and it's great for learning flash, light and controlling it.

Would also pick up a pack of eneloops for the flash.

Panasonic Eneloop Pro Rechargeable AA Ni-MH K-KJ17KHCA4A B&H

wstruth · 06-30-2015, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

In other discussions about how to fill the gap the K3ii's lack of flash caused the 201 has been the answer most often. P-TTL Auto is a mode supported but that doesn't tell me if that's able to master or just the regular P-TTL mode.

Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master?

No, it is not wireless. And definitely does not on my K-5 (I tried it anyway). I did not find any small flashes that could be found as wireless masters. For that you will have to go for one of the bigger flashes. I will use it as a travel flash and having on a cord is not a problem when I need it off camera.

mcgregni · 06-30-2015, 03:51 AM

The master/ controller trigger function is a deal breaker aspect for many, I suspect, both for potential purchases of the fg201 AND the K3ii. It's not really true that triggering is a ' high end' type of feature, considering that the pop-up units on even our more simple DSLRs offer it .....

The problem is in order to be seen as a ' pop-up plus' offering, many would expect the key triggering functioning to be there. Without it, the whole off -camera flash game changes .....or you don't get a K3ii .... or a new FF .....

I think in reality, for the kind of user base we have, there is still a demand even among the more sophisticated users, for quick and easy P-TTL and manual triggering. Having the ability to quickly adjust flash exposure from the camera position using Flash Compensation is very handy. I really hope that the built-in flash with its trigger function won't be removed from every flagship model now .... Or if that's the way it's going then the accessory alternative should surely offer it.

LensBeginner · 06-30-2015, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by matt_lin18

Surprised that only one person here has mentioned a Yongnuo. Get the Yongnuo 560IV.

Yongnuo YN560-IV Speedlite YN-560IV B&H Photo Video

Really cheap but a powerful flash. It's all manual and it's great for learning flash, light and controlling it.

Would also pick up a pack of eneloops for the flash.

Panasonic Eneloop Pro Rechargeable AA Ni-MH K-KJ17KHCA4A B&H

That was me...
Well, maybe because it's not that small...

It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo...

IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash.
I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera.

matt_lin18 · 06-30-2015, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by LensBeginner

That was me...
Well, maybe because it's not that small...

It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo...

IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash.
I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera.

True, I went ahead and bought a IV though. The difference between the III and IV on B&H is only $3.

pinholecam · 06-30-2015, 10:18 PM

Interesting discussion, I've been looking for such a small flash for a long time too (for macro).
Requirement being manual power control.
I've got the China copy of the Metz24. (I think)
It only works in auto mode, which is not ideal for my macro needs.

So do keep the suggestions coming.

I did see the Vivitar 285HV being mentioned..
I have one and it does not damage the DSLR (used it since K100D)
Its not longer a good option imo, as things have moved on.
For the price, China flashes like the YN560IV offer much more (and cheaper)

Originally posted by LensBeginner

That was me...
Well, maybe because it's not that small...

It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo...

IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash.
I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera.

I quickly replaced my 285HV, Metz 48, YN560II with the IV and a 560TX.

The YN560IV is the same price as its predecessors (I get thru Taobao, a China website)
Function wise they are day and night.
The IV is not only a TX/RX, it also can control power and zoom of slave modules.

Saves a lot of trouble moving around flashes and opening up softboxes and lowering umbrellas.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pets Well, what is it? What do you want from me? I am just a mere kat.	rrstuff	Post Your Photos!	6	02-17-2014 08:37 PM
What would you do if we actually did get a FF?	lurchlarson	Photographic Industry and Professionals	91	12-31-2013 09:23 AM
What would you do if you experience a SDM failure of a $800+ lens?	LeDave	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	31	08-03-2012 03:01 PM
If you had just a K10d body and $100 what lens would you get?	Ehlacore	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	77	10-26-2010 06:32 PM
What would you do if you could mount old Leica and Zeiss lenses?	morfic	General Talk	12	08-12-2008 10:36 PM

06-28-2015, 10:47 AM	#16
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by mdave13 Vivitar 285HV Vivitar 285HV Flash 233965 B&H Photo Video I wouldn't exactly call the 285 small.

06-28-2015, 03:10 PM	#17
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	I think the most versatile very small flash on the market presently is probably the Metz 26 AF1. Unlike most or all of the others, AFAIK, It can also be used as a P TTL slave, and has a manual mode instead of being just a P TTL flash. I don't think any current flash can be used as a master/controller for P TTL wireless remote. The 26 AF1 is also probably the most convenient size as it can fit in a shirt pocket, but still has variable angled bounce capabilities. It is, however more pricey (@ $150 USD) than most of the other compact P TTL flashes available. At this time, I'd say that this is the flash I'd get if I had the K-3 II as can apparently also be used as a wireless remote flash with bodies that have onboard flash with master/controller wireless remote capabilities. I'll probably pick one up even if I don't go with the K-3 II, to use mostly as a wireless P TTL remote. P TTL is not the best system, but it works for my relatively simple needs. Metz also makes a more compact flash, the 24 AF1, which looks along the lines of the Pentax 201 FG. AFAIK, it's a rebadge of a Chinese (?) unit that is also sold under a number of different brands for a lot less $$. It has a variable angle reflector, so can be bounced, and can only be used in P TTL mode, and only camera or with a P TTL compatible cord. Because of the physical design, it's not really pocketable, unless you have pretty loose pockets, but it is small and light. I'm hoping that Pentax will offer a very compact solution that will allow wireless remote flash for use with bodies that don't have onboard flash included -- and here I'm assuming that there will be more of these coming in the future.

06-29-2015, 12:12 PM	#18
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	The best value, IMHO, is a decent copy of a Sunpak 444D (or its European twin 36DX). Current running price is about $40. No p-TTL, which I don't use any way, preferring thyristor auto mode, but solid, compact, powerful, tilt & swivel. It can also take high voltage power supply. Next in line is Pentax AF280T. If you want wireless, get an RF remote system to use with the flash.

06-29-2015, 12:13 PM	#19
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by snostorm I think the most versatile very small flash on the market presently is probably the Metz 26 AF1. Unlike most or all of the others, AFAIK, It can also be used as a P TTL slave, and has a manual mode instead of being just a P TTL flash. I don't think any current flash can be used as a master/controller for P TTL wireless remote. The 26 AF1 is also probably the most convenient size as it can fit in a shirt pocket, but still has variable angled bounce capabilities. It is, however more pricey (@ $150 USD) than most of the other compact P TTL flashes available. At this time, I'd say that this is the flash I'd get if I had the K-3 II as can apparently also be used as a wireless remote flash with bodies that have onboard flash with master/controller wireless remote capabilities. I'll probably pick one up even if I don't go with the K-3 II, to use mostly as a wireless P TTL remote. P TTL is not the best system, but it works for my relatively simple needs. Metz also makes a more compact flash, the 24 AF1, which looks along the lines of the Pentax 201 FG. AFAIK, it's a rebadge of a Chinese (?) unit that is also sold under a number of different brands for a lot less $$. It has a variable angle reflector, so can be bounced, and can only be used in P TTL mode, and only camera or with a P TTL compatible cord. Because of the physical design, it's not really pocketable, unless you have pretty loose pockets, but it is small and light. I'm hoping that Pentax will offer a very compact solution that will allow wireless remote flash for use with bodies that don't have onboard flash included -- and here I'm assuming that there will be more of these coming in the future. I can't find any manual for the AF 201 FG but wouldn't that be a bit more compact and doesn't it provide the P-TTL master function?

06-29-2015, 01:48 PM	#20
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by wstruth Pentax AF201FG I have it and just posted a review after I saw your post. Its a great little flash. and am very happy with it. Yes, it or any of the inexpensive Pentax P-TTL compatible units (Bower, Vivitar, Metz, Polaroid, etc.) for under $100. Of course there are also the various available speedlights and auto-thyristor units that work quite nicely as non-dedicated flash. Steve

06-29-2015, 02:16 PM	#21
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Originally posted by Na Horuk Holga 12S Flash with 5 Color Filter Or get the more professional version, which costs 17.99 Kids would love this, laugh.

06-29-2015, 03:25 PM	#22
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by UncleVanya I can't find any manual for the AF 201 FG but wouldn't that be a bit more compact and doesn't it provide the P-TTL master function? I've never seen this touted as a feature, but I could be wrong. It does have the advantages of WR, and unlike the Chinese units sold under numerous brand names, it can be used in full manual mode though. As far as being compact, IMO it's a bit thick to carry all the time in a pocket which is what I'd want to do with a camera with no onboard flash, or for use as a very portable P TTL wireless remote. With the high ISO performance of the latest generations of sensors, I find little reason to lug a higher powered flash around in my kit. For me, GN @ 20 fills most of my needs, and if I can easily slip it in a pocket, then all the better because it's no real problem having it with me at all times. Scott

06-29-2015, 03:46 PM	#23
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by snostorm I've never seen this touted as a feature, but I could be wrong. It does have the advantages of WR, and unlike the Chinese units sold under numerous brand names, it can be used in full manual mode though. As far as being compact, IMO it's a bit thick to carry all the time in a pocket which is what I'd want to do with a camera with no onboard flash, or for use as a very portable P TTL wireless remote. With the high ISO performance of the latest generations of sensors, I find little reason to lug a higher powered flash around in my kit. For me, GN @ 20 fills most of my needs, and if I can easily slip it in a pocket, then all the better because it's no real problem having it with me at all times. Scott In other discussions about how to fill the gap the K3ii's lack of flash caused the 201 has been the answer most often. P-TTL Auto is a mode supported but that doesn't tell me if that's able to master or just the regular P-TTL mode. Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master?

06-29-2015, 07:41 PM	#24
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ronniemac I got the Pentax AF201FG at the same time as the K-3 II because it is small, simple, very portable (truly shirt pocket) Originally posted by UncleVanya Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master? Well, if ronniemac is following this thread, perhaps, he will weigh in. The feature, if supported, would be a menu item of some sort. FWIW, the flash feature summary of the K-3II manual (p 91) states that neither wireless or slave are supported with the AF201FG when used on that camera. IMHO, I think it is doubtful that it is capable of coordinating P-TTL. That is pretty typical of the less expensive flashes, regardless of brand, that support Pentax P-TTL protocol. Steve

06-29-2015, 11:58 PM	#25
matt_lin18 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Kansas Posts: 63	Surprised that only one person here has mentioned a Yongnuo. Get the Yongnuo 560IV. Yongnuo YN560-IV Speedlite YN-560IV B&H Photo Video Really cheap but a powerful flash. It's all manual and it's great for learning flash, light and controlling it. Would also pick up a pack of eneloops for the flash. Panasonic Eneloop Pro Rechargeable AA Ni-MH K-KJ17KHCA4A B&H

06-30-2015, 03:46 AM	#26
wstruth Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: at my kitchen table Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,294	Originally posted by UncleVanya In other discussions about how to fill the gap the K3ii's lack of flash caused the 201 has been the answer most often. P-TTL Auto is a mode supported but that doesn't tell me if that's able to master or just the regular P-TTL mode. Someone who has the flash - can you tell us if it is possible to trigger a remote P-TTL flash with it acting as the master? No, it is not wireless. And definitely does not on my K-5 (I tried it anyway). I did not find any small flashes that could be found as wireless masters. For that you will have to go for one of the bigger flashes. I will use it as a travel flash and having on a cord is not a problem when I need it off camera.

06-30-2015, 03:51 AM	#27
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	The master/ controller trigger function is a deal breaker aspect for many, I suspect, both for potential purchases of the fg201 AND the K3ii. It's not really true that triggering is a ' high end' type of feature, considering that the pop-up units on even our more simple DSLRs offer it ..... The problem is in order to be seen as a ' pop-up plus' offering, many would expect the key triggering functioning to be there. Without it, the whole off -camera flash game changes .....or you don't get a K3ii .... or a new FF ..... I think in reality, for the kind of user base we have, there is still a demand even among the more sophisticated users, for quick and easy P-TTL and manual triggering. Having the ability to quickly adjust flash exposure from the camera position using Flash Compensation is very handy. I really hope that the built-in flash with its trigger function won't be removed from every flagship model now .... Or if that's the way it's going then the accessory alternative should surely offer it.

06-30-2015, 09:57 AM	#28
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by matt_lin18 Surprised that only one person here has mentioned a Yongnuo. Get the Yongnuo 560IV. Yongnuo YN560-IV Speedlite YN-560IV B&H Photo Video Really cheap but a powerful flash. It's all manual and it's great for learning flash, light and controlling it. Would also pick up a pack of eneloops for the flash. Panasonic Eneloop Pro Rechargeable AA Ni-MH K-KJ17KHCA4A B&H That was me... Well, maybe because it's not that small... It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo... IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash. I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera.

06-30-2015, 02:19 PM	#29
matt_lin18 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Kansas Posts: 63	Originally posted by LensBeginner That was me... Well, maybe because it's not that small... It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo... IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash. I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera. True, I went ahead and bought a IV though. The difference between the III and IV on B&H is only $3.

06-30-2015, 10:18 PM	#30
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Interesting discussion, I've been looking for such a small flash for a long time too (for macro). Requirement being manual power control. I've got the China copy of the Metz24. (I think) It only works in auto mode, which is not ideal for my macro needs. So do keep the suggestions coming. I did see the Vivitar 285HV being mentioned.. I have one and it does not damage the DSLR (used it since K100D) Its not longer a good option imo, as things have moved on. For the price, China flashes like the YN560IV offer much more (and cheaper) Originally posted by LensBeginner That was me... Well, maybe because it's not that small... It's small-ish, in the sense that it's a flashgun and not a pack-and-head combo... IMHO however no reason to pick a mkIV, you only get triggering functions, but those are useless if you only have one flash. I'd go with a cheaper mkIII and - possibly - a mkIV (to be purchased in the future) or - maybe better - a YN-560TX to trigger it off-camera. I quickly replaced my 285HV, Metz 48, YN560II with the IV and a 560TX. The YN560IV is the same price as its predecessors (I get thru Taobao, a China website) Function wise they are day and night. The IV is not only a TX/RX, it also can control power and zoom of slave modules. Saves a lot of trouble moving around flashes and opening up softboxes and lowering umbrellas.