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07-01-2015, 07:32 PM   #1
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Sony BSI APS-C Sensors

Sony is expected to launch the A7000 with a 24MP or 30MP APS-C BSI sensor. Fuji rumors is claiming that the Fuji X-Pro 2 will use this sensor.

Will we see a K-3II replacement so soon? Will Ricoh roll out a new flagship APS-C body? The K-3II is obviously just a warmed over K-3, so there is a lot of room improvement.

07-01-2015, 08:29 PM   #2
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This thread is neither Pentax news nor a rumor. It's pure speculation based off of a rumor but there's plenty of that online New Sony sensors usually take a few months before they are available to other manufacturers. We know the Pentax FF is due later this year (with sensor TBD) so it wouldn't surprise me to see the next Pentax APS-C come out ~ January. Or, depending on the FF price and specs, maybe the FF is a really high end model with an APS-C brought out around the same time.
07-01-2015, 08:56 PM - 3 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
This thread is neither Pentax news nor a rumor. It's pure speculation based off of a rumor but there's plenty of that online New Sony sensors usually take a few months before they are available to other manufacturers. We know the Pentax FF is due later this year (with sensor TBD) so it wouldn't surprise me to see the next Pentax APS-C come out ~ January. Or, depending on the FF price and specs, maybe the FF is a really high end model with an APS-C brought out around the same time.

OK.

I heard a rumor that Pentax is going to use a rumored Sony 24MP BSI sensor in the soon to be released K3 Super.

Now a rumor has been started and we are all good.
07-01-2015, 08:58 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
it wouldn't surprise me to see the next Pentax APS-C come out ~ January. Or, depending on the FF price and specs, maybe the FF is a really high end model with an APS-C brought out around the same time.
Agree. It might be announced this fall roughly the same time as the FF with actual delivery in January / February. I think the k-3II will run at least 6 months as the APS-C flagship.

It is looking more and more, from the rumors and info on sensors, that Pentax is waiting for a new generation rather than releasing another model with an older sensor. K-3II might be the last of that generation with BSI sensors used going forward. Assuming Sony can deliver of course.

07-01-2015, 11:48 PM   #5
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I'm not sure Pentax will get much benefit much of a APS-C BSI sensor.

We have to see if there will be any IQ improvements on the BSI sensor.
One big reason for Sony to use BSI is to get improved on sensor AF, and 4K video.
We know Pentax is not caring much on video so they might not use 4K, and on sensor AF improvements is something mirrorless camera will benefit from.

If Pentax will release a APS-C K-mount camera with a BSI sensor anytime soon, it might be a K-01 replacement that can benefit from the improved AF.
07-02-2015, 12:00 AM   #6
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The k3 suits me just fine although I am thinking of buying the k3II for backup as far as the full frame goes I might buy a new lens but the APSC format works good enough for me.
07-02-2015, 03:26 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I'm not sure Pentax will get much benefit much of a APS-C BSI sensor.

We have to see if there will be any IQ improvements on the BSI sensor.
One big reason for Sony to use BSI is to get improved on sensor AF, and 4K video.
We know Pentax is not caring much on video so they might not use 4K, and on sensor AF improvements is something mirrorless camera will benefit from.

If Pentax will release a APS-C K-mount camera with a BSI sensor anytime soon, it might be a K-01 replacement that can benefit from the improved AF.
I would love to see a K-02 with an EVF, PDAF on the sensor, and weather sealing. Offer a version with a full frame sensor and SR down the road and watch them fly off the shelves!
07-02-2015, 04:22 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I'm not sure Pentax will get much benefit much of a APS-C BSI sensor . . .
Why not? I thought BSI was supposed to lower noise. Admittedly, it helps less the bigger the sensor, but surely Sony didn't release a new sensor solely because it's BSI.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
. . . We have to see if there will be any IQ improvements on the BSI sensor. . .
I can't disagree that the new sensor might turn out to be a dog, but I suspect that wouldn't work out well for Sony, either. I think they have plenty of incentive to ensure the new sensor performs better than the old one (they aren't Canon, after all).
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
. . . One big reason for Sony to use BSI is to get improved on sensor AF, and 4K video. . .
How does BSI improve AF? How would it improve 4K video and not HD video or still photos? I would think that AF & 4K video improvements would be due to other sensor design improvements that might happen to coincide with changing to a BSI sensor, but not because of BSI.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
. . . We know Pentax is not caring much on video so they might not use 4K, and on sensor AF improvements is something mirrorless camera will benefit from. If Pentax will release a APS-C K-mount camera with a BSI sensor anytime soon, it might be a K-01 replacement that can benefit from the improved AF.
O cold, cruel, heartless Pentax, who has turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the wishes of their videographic users! Who has toyed with us by providing insufficient video modes and a shortage of protuberances by which a still camera, designed to take photographs, can clunkily and inconveniently be jury-rigged to do the job of a video camera that has been designed with the ergonomics, lenses, cooling, and data busses to do a proper job! O Pentax, we beseech thee, Pentaxians barely worthy to touch the gear that bears your name, to compromise further your still cameras so that we might misuse them in a most egregious fashion!

OK, I'm being a bit facetious in the last bit, but really -- video cameras and still cameras are two completely different beasts and always have been. They may converge a little more now that we've had a digital revolution, but getting a still camera to be a good video camera (and no, the Canon 5d mk. ii NEVER qualified) is really about as easy as modifying an old Pentax film camera to take motion pictures. People are complaining about the battery life on the K-3ii. What will they say when it gets a 4K capable processor? HD video takes plenty enough juice, and that's probably the reason Pentax isn't supporting it better right now -- if the processor can handle still pictures with judicious speed, upgrading it to handle video just eats battery life. And it's all software (firmware) nowadays -- there are no more dedicated ASIC processors, especially low power ones, for encoding. It's just too complicated, and the standards change too quickly. Besides, about the only camera company that makes lenses good enough for video (they have different requirements) is Canon. (Although apparently you can get an adapter to fit old TV studio camera lenses on the Pentax Q [and I have to specify now because there are about 3 or 4 different "q" cameras on the market at the moment]).

The built-in video mode is great for if you're somewhere with your still camera and want a casual video of something that's happening. It would be irritating to carry a camcorder for a "what if" like that, and yes, the gear you have is probably better than something small and dedicated (not to mention expensive). But everyone seems to want production video features on their still camera. Considering what they won't be able to do, regardless of Pentax's wishes (or more probably its users'), I have to wonder why.

07-02-2015, 04:32 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by fredralphfred Quote
Why not? I thought BSI was supposed to lower noise. Admittedly, it helps less the bigger the sensor, but surely Sony didn't release a new sensor solely because it's BSI.I can't disagree that the new sensor might turn out to be a dog, but I suspect that wouldn't work out well for Sony, either. I think they have plenty of incentive to ensure the new sensor performs better than the old one (they aren't Canon, after all).
I think I read that one of the attractions of the BSI approach for Sony is economic. Compared to the older, non-BSI sensors, this new one has much more on it in terms of electronic circuitry that does stuff, thus allowing perhaps both a higher selling price and greater control for Sony over the whole imaging process.
07-02-2015, 04:33 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
If Pentax will release a APS-C K-mount camera with a BSI sensor anytime soon, it might be a K-01 replacement that can benefit from the improved AF.
I like this idea. Could we get a yellow one please. Also my flimsy Door to the sd-card's is still working correct after 3 years, so i'm fine with that.
07-02-2015, 05:28 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I'm not sure Pentax will get much benefit much of a APS-C BSI sensor.

We have to see if there will be any IQ improvements on the BSI sensor.
One big reason for Sony to use BSI is to get improved on sensor AF, and 4K video.
We know Pentax is not caring much on video so they might not use 4K, and on sensor AF improvements is something mirrorless camera will benefit from.

If Pentax will release a APS-C K-mount camera with a BSI sensor anytime soon, it might be a K-01 replacement that can benefit from the improved AF.
The improvements might not be huge. BSI has the advantage of greater color efficiency. Meaning they can improve sensitivity to the blue and green channels without blowing out reds. We are going to see slightly more resolution, slightly better color and DR. All of these small improvements add up to a noticeable improvement.

I have yet to see anything that says BSI improves on sensor AF or 4K video. Do you have link to this?
07-02-2015, 07:00 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I have yet to see anything that says BSI improves on sensor AF or 4K video. Do you have link to this?
The wiring on a BSI sensor can be made shorter so the readout of the sensor can be done with higher speed as there will be less heat generated on the chip, but BSI is just one part on improvement made for faster readout.

FI the new 42MP FF sensor has a readout that is 3.5 times faster than the older 36MP FF sensor, which can be done with a combination of using BSI and using copper for the circuits.
And with BSI they can put more circuitry on the sensor as it no longer in they way of the light capturing area, which also speed things up.

More info on the design of the 42MP BSI sensor.
Sony Q&A: The must-have sensor tech of the future?
07-02-2015, 10:45 AM   #13
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Looking at the release time-frame the K3ii replacement should be a couple of years away, plenty of time for new sensors to make their appearance...
07-02-2015, 02:09 PM   #14
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Wondering if it would be possible to use one of these sensors with the PDAF baked in directly on a DSLR.. somewhat of a hybrid approach to a mirrorless/DSLR camera. Still have the beautiful OVF but with the performance of the PDAF in sensor. Add the exposure settings and/or histogram overlayed on the OVF view and you have yourself a meal.
07-02-2015, 05:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I would love to see a K-02 with an EVF, PDAF on the sensor, and weather sealing. Offer a version with a full frame sensor and SR down the road and watch them fly off the shelves!
I still haven't decided what I'm going to do about the FF but I'd buy either an APSc or FF K-mount mirrorless (as above) sight-unseen. I'm just guessing such a camera would be a manual focus lens user's dream camera.

Even today I get the most user joy out of my K-01 and a couple small MF primes in my pocket.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-02-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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