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07-22-2015, 01:43 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So, if we want to use a full frame system, basically it's almost like buying a new system. In this case, the K mount loyalty does not play that much.
What I wanted to point out is that you should get the glass first. And if you spend your budget buying an FF camera without any good glass, then you won't really see an improvement. But if you buy good glass, you will notice a big upgrade with APSC camera already, and will have a path for FF as well. A lot of DA glass already is FF compatible, and Pentax will definitely release more. Third party support will probably increase, as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Not sure , but I did not understand that Mattox decided anything.
Eh, I think he decided subconsciously. I think the idea of a Nikon FF is so attractive to him, that he just needs a little justification. I think OP is headed that way regardless of what this thread says, so I am wishing them good luck

07-22-2015, 02:03 PM   #17
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I good portion of sales for these "top tier" cameras are from affluent novices overcompensation their lack of knowledge. What Pentax needs is the digital full frame K1000. To be manufactured for the next decade with nothing but sensor changes.
07-22-2015, 02:42 PM   #18
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Since you basically have to start over with lenses, it would make sense if you make a living from photography to switch to Nikon. Besides the initial cost of switching as I have mostly all APS-C lenses, the only thing that keeps me with Pentax is SR in body which keeps the price of lenses down and the lower price of the body

Good luck with your choice

07-22-2015, 02:53 PM - 1 Like   #19
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I'd say "the grass is always greener" but I switched to Pentax from Nikon in large part because I hate how yellow Nikons render the green of grass and other foliage.

07-22-2015, 03:06 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also.
That sounds reasonable since Pentax has no FF body. Anything is superior to nothing.

As for range of FF glass (assuming a FF Pentax camera will appear before your purchase decision), are you planning on buying two or a dozen lenses on the first purchase round? The question may sound flippant, but I am serious. If the camera debuts with a DFA 28-85/2.8 kit zoom to pair with the DFA 70-210/2.8, most people will be covered. If you need a DFA 16/2.8 Fisheye, the picture is not so bright. It may well be that Pentax may not have the lens you need at the time of launch. In that case, it is a no-brainer. Buy the Nikon product. They make good stuff.


* Unless, of course, you have no aversion to vintage or off-brand glass...

Last edited by stevebrot; 07-22-2015 at 03:17 PM.
07-23-2015, 12:28 AM   #21

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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I think you should switch to Nikon.
Is this reverse psychology or apostasy?
07-23-2015, 02:20 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Not sure , but I did not understand that Mattox decided anything. If I understood correctly, the point is that as soon as we "upgrade" from APSc to full frame, regardless of the brand, we have to reconsider our system. I think there was an article or video about "the full frame upgrate myth". So, if we want to use a full frame system, basically it's almost like buying a new system. In this case, the K mount loyalty does not play that much.

---------- Post added 22-07-15 at 22:32 ----------

I know nothing about the price of the future Pentax FF, so I wait to see. If it's got a 42 Mpixel BSI , I don't think it's going to be any cheaper than competition.
That's right, I haven't decided anything. I just feel that Pentax need to present me an offer economically and performance wise, a FF SYSTEM that is par with or better than what is currently on the market. If I am going to take that big investment forward I need to know. As far as my current disappointments, let say, that my oldish k5 has in my current lens line up, well yes. Maybe a few photo uploads will help. I will get to it today so that you can see where I am coming from

---------- Post added 07-23-15 at 03:11 AM ----------

MATT BISHOP PHOTOGRAPHY | Mornington Peninsula

You will notice this photo (although i probably over exaggerated with the ND in lightroom, is quite a well balance photo. Simple but effective. Strangely enough, this type of photo has its own market in Australia. Taken on a beach on the mornington peninsula VIC. I take many of these pier shots and have had quite a big success in selling them off my website and redbubble. Sice moving to digital although, these type of shots just aren't sharp enough and lack the detail that once juji velvia had for me. I took this shot with my K5, on a manfrotto tripod with my 16-50 sdm. The photo had to be sharpened up to 35 percent and vibrance increased to give it the results in needed. Even if the shot was taken in live view the sharpness was just not spot on however. Moving to FF and consequently changes landscape lens could give me that extra bite that I need in these type of photos and I just want to make sure that prior to jumping into FF, will pentax give me what I need or will I have to move on.
07-23-2015, 04:28 AM   #23
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Excellent work!!! Congrats.
And if you're a professional (or you want to make money from your photography), definetly go to the best tool (it seems you want/need the max mpx camera on the market), Nikon and Sony offer that in the 35 mm format. But, just a thought,,,have you considered the MF / Pentax 645Z ? Lots of mpx , bigger format and lots of DR. Not a matter of brand loyalty, just the fact that 645Z costs a lot less than other MF system. Best regards

07-23-2015, 04:32 AM   #24
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whay not just a K-3 (or II) and a sharp prime in the range you prefer? and yes for your style you could think of a 645D/Z and would gain much more over the FF's
APS-C to FF is not as big of a step than APS-C to 645 especially as it seems your images would gain a lot more from an increased DR.
07-23-2015, 05:32 AM   #25
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I thought about that a while ago but the price is what stopped me, the D750, 800, 810 are great, affordable if buy used (5DmIII is just extremely overpriced) but the glasses are expensive too !
I'd say wait a little for the Pentax FF and see if that'd be good enough for you, or else check out the 645D or 645Z with a huge DR and sharpness !
07-23-2015, 06:04 AM   #26
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Interesting Times

I feel your pain. I was originally contemplating the full frame jump after using borrowed gear (sold all my gear - my children's universities, as it turns out, don't accept hugs as tuition payments). The problem, for me, is this. Nikon D750/D810 are great bodies and there is a solid ecosystem of glass behind it but both Nikon and Canon have an ambivalence to the end users needs that just rubs me the wrong way. As well, I love the Pentax K-3. Love it. Shot with it for a couple of weeks and almost had to be clubbed unconscious and have it pried out of my hands. I love the idea of being a Pentaxian. The K-3 II was a surprise to me because it offered nothing in the way of features I considered deal-breakers and may constitute a failed gamble with pixel-shift. That makes my next purchase of the K-3 without those features easy and an absolute bargain. Ok. So, in a few weeks, I'll have my K-3 for $800 CDN, I already have a set of primes at bargain prices. If the Pentax full frame tries to sell itself with pixel shift as part of it's feature set (in it's present state), I believe it will fail. Yes, a good sensor, improved autofocus, tethering, wifi, weather sealing, fps, battery improvements might override that. I am concerned Pentax may be anticipating the loyal supporters needs incorrectly. I really hope that isn't the case and I'm wrong. I would so love to have a full frame Pentax and K-3 as second body. If it is a fail, then I have to consider staying aps-c with my K-3 (Not a bad place to be at all...) or jumping. However, the only company, in my mind, worth jumping to would be Sony. Sony's strength is also my source of trepidation. They are innovators. To the extreme, in some cases. "All over the ice" as they say here, in Canada. The A7R II has yet to be field-tested solidly but there are features there that you just won't ever see from Canon or Nikon. In the coming years, Sony will be a very interesting source for photographers. Their bodies, though, for me, are just ugly. But they have a feature set that impresses. I will still grab a Pentax full frame over that if it has what I need. Maybe you're underestimating the value in the K-3?
07-23-2015, 06:12 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
With all this waiting for Pentax FF and general contemplation I am strangely having doubts about whether to go to Nikon. I know it seems strange and rediculous and I am Pentax user for over 15 years now, but certain aspects of Pentax are frustrating me. As I become more critical on my work and demand better results, especially when it comes to AF performance and sensor capabilities I am really hoping that the Pentax FF answers my demands or I will end up biting the bullet, selling up and making the big, expensive move to Nikon. I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also. I hate to feel this way as I am so affectionate toward Pentax. Am I being stupid or is this the thought of many users at this time?
I think you should rent the D750 and a lens that fits your style and take it for a weekend. Nikon has some really good stuff. I really love the 58mm F/1.4.

It will take years for Ricoh to develop the ecosystem needed for a FF body and you will ultimately end up buying all new glass anyway. The modern lenses with modern coatings are really good and you need that with the new high resolution sensors.
07-23-2015, 07:25 AM   #28
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Good bye. Good luck.
07-23-2015, 08:21 AM   #29

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QuoteOriginally posted by officiousbystander Quote
Is this reverse psychology or apostasy?
Neither, really, although I suppose "apostasy" is an amusing term to apply.

After reading Mattox's OP, I clicked on his profile and read his other posts, and also pondered his choice of language. One of those posts included a link to his website. I surfed his website for a few minutes. There are many things one could say about wringing the most out of the current Pentax ecosystem, but ultimately I think that his style of photography would mostly benefit (in the sense of the technical aspects) from a really good FF system. He's already stated that he's trending toward FF, and since life is short, he should go for it if he has the dosh.

IMHO, the most prudent move at this time would be to buy the K-3 II, which has 50% more MP than his K-5 and lacks an AA filter, further enhancing sharpness. He undoubtedly would have some opportunity to utilize the K-3 II's pixel-shifting technology, which at the very least is competitive with the Nikon D810's big sensor (looking at reports on the Web). Then re-visit this quandary after the Pentax FF is launched.
07-23-2015, 10:43 AM   #30

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Hummm, the K-3 is a step about the K-5 in term of sharpness , if used with a sharp lens, and relatively low iso. A fast APSC DSLR (K-3, 7D) has its advantage for wildlife, thanks to the 1.5x crop factor. It makes sense to keep a fast APSC camera for use with sharp supertele prime lenses, and have a tradeoff vs FF in the wide angle area. However, for landscape only works, a high res. mirroless FF such as the A7r or A7rII makes sense, AF speed is not an issue, it's cheaper than big Canikon FF, and IQ is a step above K-5 or K-3. Where Pentax bet it completely wrong is that they stayed APSC for very long, but they did not make the supertele lenses that make so much sense on APSC. Typically , they designed the DA560 for APSC only, that made sense, but then why did they make it f5.6... when more speed is needed with long lenses or more light needed to deal with the higher noise of the smaller APSC sensor. In Canon land, the 7DII was successor of the 7D, because there is a sustainable market for wildlife applications, while the FF performs better in the wide angle area. I stick with Pentax, but it's a position difficult to keep.

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