Confusion and doubts

mikeSF · 07-23-2015, 10:50 AM - **1 Like**

15 years and you are about to lose the blinking game? Wait and see the Pentax FF - it's gonna be great!

**hjoseph7** · 07-23-2015, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

With all this waiting for Pentax FF and general contemplation I am strangely having doubts about whether to go to Nikon. I know it seems strange and rediculous and I am Pentax user for over 15 years now, but certain aspects of Pentax are frustrating me. As I become more critical on my work and demand better results, especially when it comes to AF performance and sensor capabilities I am really hoping that the Pentax FF answers my demands or I will end up biting the bullet, selling up and making the big, expensive move to Nikon. I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also. I hate to feel this way as I am so affectionate toward Pentax. Am I being stupid or is this the thought of many users at this time?

Are you thinking of going Professional or are a Professional already then Nikon or Canon might fit your needs better.

aleonx3 · 07-23-2015, 11:08 AM

I am looking at OP's photos on his webpage, I am not sure if AF is really that important in his shooting style. I can understand that one will always lust for a FF look, but there is more to it than just that. If the OP is using the k-5, then I can understand the big jump to Nikon FF, why not wait until the Pentax FF is released before deciding which way to go? As in almost all cases, price of camera comes down over time after it is introduced, so it pays to be patient.

Mattox · 07-23-2015, 11:36 AM

yep, your all pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. Maybe because a lot of you feel the same way to. Thanks to those who have dropped into my website and have been able to see from my photos what I am taking about. The truth is i'd love for the 16-50 to be a full framer but sadly thats not the case, unless a great FF similar to that comes out plus the high resolution of the FF i may have to say goodbye

aleonx3 · 07-23-2015, 11:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mattox

yep, your all pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. Maybe because a lot of you feel the same way to. Thanks to those who have dropped into my website and have been able to see from my photos what I am taking about. The truth is i'd love for the 16-50 to be a full framer but sadly thats not the case, unless a great FF similar to that comes out plus the high resolution of the FF i may have to say goodbye

Even though I may still have a lust for a FF look, I am not sure if I like the D750, D810 or 5DMKIII etc. I would rather wait to see if Pentax will have any of the newer BSI sensors in the new models (APS-C or FF). I shoot events, so my requirements for better AF is likely more so than yours since the subjects don't usually pose and wait for me. But I find that my k-3 is more than adequate. The other thing also is the rendering of images in Pentax, from what I have seen so far, I am not sure if I like Canon sensor at all, for Nikon, may be, since they share similar sensors with Pentax from Sony. But I also don't find Nikon camera appealing to me in terms of button placement and ergonomics.

As for the 16-50 as it is... a lens designed for cropped sensor, it is very good for it does and the price is reasonable. However, if you upgrade to Pentax FF, you will likely need to get the 24-70/f2.8 anyway. If the new Pentax FF and 24-70/f2.8 cost about the same as the D750/D810 FX24-70/2.8, then I would still choose Pentax (probably new sensor and better ergonomics).

Mattox · 07-23-2015, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by hjoseph7

Are you thinking of going Professional or are a Professional already then Nikon or Canon might fit your needs better.

No I am not a pro, just a passion hobby

---------- Post added 07-23-15 at 01:00 PM ----------

Originally posted by aleonx3

Even though I may still have a lust for a FF look, I am not sure if I like the D750, D810 or 5DMKIII etc. I would rather wait to see if Pentax will have any of the newer BSI sensors in the new models (APS-C or FF). I shoot events, so my requirements for better AF is likely more so than yours since the subjects don't usually pose and wait for me. But I find that my k-3 is more than adequate. The other thing also is the rendering of images in Pentax, from what I have seen so far, I am not sure if I like Canon sensor at all, for Nikon, may be, since they share similar sensors with Pentax from Sony. But I also don't find Nikon camera appealing to me in terms of button placement and ergonomics.

As for the 16-50 as it is... a lens designed for cropped sensor, it is very good for it does and the price is reasonable. However, if you upgrade to Pentax FF, you will likely need to get the 24-70/f2.8 anyway. If the new Pentax FF and 24-70/f2.8 cost about the same as the D750/D810 FX24-70/2.8, then I would still choose Pentax (probably new sensor and better ergonomics).

And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. If the FF Pentax outdoes the 750/810 and they have a lens like the 24-70 well I will stick with the Pentax and be one happy happy man

slip · 07-23-2015, 02:24 PM - **1 Like**

Hopefully the FF is a total upgrade to the auto focus, not a rehashed body with a FF sensor

Randy

**Mikesul** · 07-23-2015, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Winder

It will take years for Ricoh to develop the ecosystem needed for a FF body and you will ultimately end up buying all new glass anyway. The modern lenses with modern coatings are really good and you need that with the new high resolution sensors.

Are you saying that the legacy Pentax FF lenses such as the FAs will not perform optically as well on a new FF as a newly developed lens? Or is the problem just the older AF in these lenses?

quant2325 · 07-23-2015, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by slip

Hopefully the FF is a total upgrade to the auto focus, not a rehashed body with a FF sensor

Randy

Pentax has what, a 2% global market share? It is also owned by a company that is in much better financial condition, particularly going forward, than most of its competition. Pentax has less to lose as the smartphones take over the bulk of the consumer market. My guess is that there is no way the Pentax FF doesn't compete on price. It may not be an amazing relative deal like the 645Z, but it will be more than competitive based upon both price and all those innovative options most of us will never use. Remember, Canon and Nikon have not been very innovative in recent years, yet Ricoh, SONY and FUJI have. I suspect this innovative trend will continue, as will Ricoh competing aggressively with any product geared toward professionals. The autofocus now is very good, and it will be top notch in the FF since Ricoh is very good at listening to their market (just like it was with the 645Z).

stevebrot · 07-23-2015, 06:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mikesul

Are you saying that the legacy Pentax FF lenses such as the FAs will not perform optically as well on a new FF as a newly developed lens?

I do believe that is what they are saying. There is a perception that the presence of a digital sensor at the focal plane will place some sort of hex on the the light rays exiting any lens not designed in the last two or three years or something to that affect.

As for the claim regarding a period of years to build a base of appropriate new FF glass, I would ask just what the minimum components of such an ecosystem might be in terms of market. From what I can tell, Ricoh/Pentax is well poised to enter the market with quality options at appropriate zoom ranges. The prime line-up is sparse, but that is less of a challenge than it might seem.

Steve

howieb101 · 07-23-2015, 08:59 PM

Given that Nikon use Sony sensors what would be the rush to Nikon over Pentax?

Also, while Pentax have had some hardware issues with new cameras Nikon have a pretty bad recent history. Google about D600, D800 and D750 and you will know what I mean.

Lenses or flash system are more persuasive arguments to move to Nikon.

**luftfluss** · 07-23-2015, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by howieb101

Given that Nikon use Sony sensors what would be the rush to Nikon over Pentax?

Also, while Pentax have had some hardware issues with new cameras Nikon have a pretty bad recent history. Google about D600, D800 and D750 and you will know what I mean.

Lenses or flash system are more persuasive arguments to move to Nikon.

Not all Nikons use Sony sensors. Some of their FF cameras use Nikon-designed sensor fabbed by Renesas.

ZombieArmy · 07-23-2015, 11:43 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

I do believe that is what they are saying. There is a perception that the presence of a digital sensor at the focal plane will place some sort of hex on the the light rays exiting any lens not designed in the last two or three years or something to that affect.

Sounds like a lot of bologna to me.

jkomp316 · 07-24-2015, 04:01 AM

What draws me to Pentax and away from Canikon is the entry point. There's millions of cheap vintage lenses for Pentax and the DSLR bodies sell for peanuts second hand. If I considered myself some type of pro who was looking to compete with other "pros" than I suppose my priorities would be different.

jgnfld · 07-24-2015, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by jkomp316

What draws me to Pentax and away from Canikon is the entry point. There's millions of cheap vintage lenses for Pentax and the DSLR bodies sell for peanuts second hand. If I considered myself some type of pro who was looking to compete with other "pros" than I suppose my priorities would be different.

"Pros" compete on picture quality/service and on business/marketing skills. Not so much kit unless it affects any of these.

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07-23-2015, 10:50 AM - 1 Like	#31
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,620	15 years and you are about to lose the blinking game? Wait and see the Pentax FF - it's gonna be great!

07-23-2015, 10:55 AM	#32
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,046	Originally posted by Mattox With all this waiting for Pentax FF and general contemplation I am strangely having doubts about whether to go to Nikon. I know it seems strange and rediculous and I am Pentax user for over 15 years now, but certain aspects of Pentax are frustrating me. As I become more critical on my work and demand better results, especially when it comes to AF performance and sensor capabilities I am really hoping that the Pentax FF answers my demands or I will end up biting the bullet, selling up and making the big, expensive move to Nikon. I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also. I hate to feel this way as I am so affectionate toward Pentax. Am I being stupid or is this the thought of many users at this time? Are you thinking of going Professional or are a Professional already then Nikon or Canon might fit your needs better.

07-23-2015, 11:08 AM	#33
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	I am looking at OP's photos on his webpage, I am not sure if AF is really that important in his shooting style. I can understand that one will always lust for a FF look, but there is more to it than just that. If the OP is using the k-5, then I can understand the big jump to Nikon FF, why not wait until the Pentax FF is released before deciding which way to go? As in almost all cases, price of camera comes down over time after it is introduced, so it pays to be patient.

07-23-2015, 11:36 AM	#34
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	yep, your all pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. Maybe because a lot of you feel the same way to. Thanks to those who have dropped into my website and have been able to see from my photos what I am taking about. The truth is i'd love for the 16-50 to be a full framer but sadly thats not the case, unless a great FF similar to that comes out plus the high resolution of the FF i may have to say goodbye

07-23-2015, 11:58 AM - 1 Like	#35
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Mattox yep, your all pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. Maybe because a lot of you feel the same way to. Thanks to those who have dropped into my website and have been able to see from my photos what I am taking about. The truth is i'd love for the 16-50 to be a full framer but sadly thats not the case, unless a great FF similar to that comes out plus the high resolution of the FF i may have to say goodbye Even though I may still have a lust for a FF look, I am not sure if I like the D750, D810 or 5DMKIII etc. I would rather wait to see if Pentax will have any of the newer BSI sensors in the new models (APS-C or FF). I shoot events, so my requirements for better AF is likely more so than yours since the subjects don't usually pose and wait for me. But I find that my k-3 is more than adequate. The other thing also is the rendering of images in Pentax, from what I have seen so far, I am not sure if I like Canon sensor at all, for Nikon, may be, since they share similar sensors with Pentax from Sony. But I also don't find Nikon camera appealing to me in terms of button placement and ergonomics. As for the 16-50 as it is... a lens designed for cropped sensor, it is very good for it does and the price is reasonable. However, if you upgrade to Pentax FF, you will likely need to get the 24-70/f2.8 anyway. If the new Pentax FF and 24-70/f2.8 cost about the same as the D750/D810 FX24-70/2.8, then I would still choose Pentax (probably new sensor and better ergonomics).

07-23-2015, 12:57 PM	#36
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Originally posted by hjoseph7 Are you thinking of going Professional or are a Professional already then Nikon or Canon might fit your needs better. No I am not a pro, just a passion hobby ---------- Post added 07-23-15 at 01:00 PM ---------- Originally posted by aleonx3 Even though I may still have a lust for a FF look, I am not sure if I like the D750, D810 or 5DMKIII etc. I would rather wait to see if Pentax will have any of the newer BSI sensors in the new models (APS-C or FF). I shoot events, so my requirements for better AF is likely more so than yours since the subjects don't usually pose and wait for me. But I find that my k-3 is more than adequate. The other thing also is the rendering of images in Pentax, from what I have seen so far, I am not sure if I like Canon sensor at all, for Nikon, may be, since they share similar sensors with Pentax from Sony. But I also don't find Nikon camera appealing to me in terms of button placement and ergonomics. As for the 16-50 as it is... a lens designed for cropped sensor, it is very good for it does and the price is reasonable. However, if you upgrade to Pentax FF, you will likely need to get the 24-70/f2.8 anyway. If the new Pentax FF and 24-70/f2.8 cost about the same as the D750/D810 FX24-70/2.8, then I would still choose Pentax (probably new sensor and better ergonomics). And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. If the FF Pentax outdoes the 750/810 and they have a lens like the 24-70 well I will stick with the Pentax and be one happy happy man

07-23-2015, 02:24 PM - 1 Like	#37
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Hopefully the FF is a total upgrade to the auto focus, not a rehashed body with a FF sensor Randy

07-23-2015, 03:55 PM	#38
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by Winder It will take years for Ricoh to develop the ecosystem needed for a FF body and you will ultimately end up buying all new glass anyway. The modern lenses with modern coatings are really good and you need that with the new high resolution sensors. Are you saying that the legacy Pentax FF lenses such as the FAs will not perform optically as well on a new FF as a newly developed lens? Or is the problem just the older AF in these lenses?

07-23-2015, 04:01 PM	#39
quant2325 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 205	Originally posted by slip Hopefully the FF is a total upgrade to the auto focus, not a rehashed body with a FF sensor Randy Pentax has what, a 2% global market share? It is also owned by a company that is in much better financial condition, particularly going forward, than most of its competition. Pentax has less to lose as the smartphones take over the bulk of the consumer market. My guess is that there is no way the Pentax FF doesn't compete on price. It may not be an amazing relative deal like the 645Z, but it will be more than competitive based upon both price and all those innovative options most of us will never use. Remember, Canon and Nikon have not been very innovative in recent years, yet Ricoh, SONY and FUJI have. I suspect this innovative trend will continue, as will Ricoh competing aggressively with any product geared toward professionals. The autofocus now is very good, and it will be top notch in the FF since Ricoh is very good at listening to their market (just like it was with the 645Z).

07-23-2015, 06:00 PM - 1 Like	#40
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Mikesul Are you saying that the legacy Pentax FF lenses such as the FAs will not perform optically as well on a new FF as a newly developed lens? I do believe that is what they are saying. There is a perception that the presence of a digital sensor at the focal plane will place some sort of hex on the the light rays exiting any lens not designed in the last two or three years or something to that affect. As for the claim regarding a period of years to build a base of appropriate new FF glass, I would ask just what the minimum components of such an ecosystem might be in terms of market. From what I can tell, Ricoh/Pentax is well poised to enter the market with quality options at appropriate zoom ranges. The prime line-up is sparse, but that is less of a challenge than it might seem. Steve

07-23-2015, 08:59 PM	#41
howieb101 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 594	Given that Nikon use Sony sensors what would be the rush to Nikon over Pentax? Also, while Pentax have had some hardware issues with new cameras Nikon have a pretty bad recent history. Google about D600, D800 and D750 and you will know what I mean. Lenses or flash system are more persuasive arguments to move to Nikon.

07-23-2015, 09:10 PM	#42
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by howieb101 Given that Nikon use Sony sensors what would be the rush to Nikon over Pentax? Also, while Pentax have had some hardware issues with new cameras Nikon have a pretty bad recent history. Google about D600, D800 and D750 and you will know what I mean. Lenses or flash system are more persuasive arguments to move to Nikon. Not all Nikons use Sony sensors. Some of their FF cameras use Nikon-designed sensor fabbed by Renesas.

07-23-2015, 11:43 PM - 1 Like	#43
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Originally posted by stevebrot I do believe that is what they are saying. There is a perception that the presence of a digital sensor at the focal plane will place some sort of hex on the the light rays exiting any lens not designed in the last two or three years or something to that affect. Sounds like a lot of bologna to me.

07-24-2015, 04:01 AM	#44
jkomp316 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 227	What draws me to Pentax and away from Canikon is the entry point. There's millions of cheap vintage lenses for Pentax and the DSLR bodies sell for peanuts second hand. If I considered myself some type of pro who was looking to compete with other "pros" than I suppose my priorities would be different.

07-24-2015, 07:38 AM	#45
jgnfld Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,789	Originally posted by jkomp316 What draws me to Pentax and away from Canikon is the entry point. There's millions of cheap vintage lenses for Pentax and the DSLR bodies sell for peanuts second hand. If I considered myself some type of pro who was looking to compete with other "pros" than I suppose my priorities would be different. "Pros" compete on picture quality/service and on business/marketing skills. Not so much kit unless it affects any of these.