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07-22-2015, 10:47 AM   #1
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Confusion and doubts

With all this waiting for Pentax FF and general contemplation I am strangely having doubts about whether to go to Nikon. I know it seems strange and rediculous and I am Pentax user for over 15 years now, but certain aspects of Pentax are frustrating me. As I become more critical on my work and demand better results, especially when it comes to AF performance and sensor capabilities I am really hoping that the Pentax FF answers my demands or I will end up biting the bullet, selling up and making the big, expensive move to Nikon. I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also. I hate to feel this way as I am so affectionate toward Pentax. Am I being stupid or is this the thought of many users at this time?

07-22-2015, 10:56 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
With all this waiting for Pentax FF and general contemplation I am strangely having doubts about whether to go to Nikon. I know it seems strange and rediculous and I am Pentax user for over 15 years now, but certain aspects of Pentax are frustrating me. As I become more critical on my work and demand better results, especially when it comes to AF performance and sensor capabilities I am really hoping that the Pentax FF answers my demands or I will end up biting the bullet, selling up and making the big, expensive move to Nikon. I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment and their range of FF lenses also. I hate to feel this way as I am so affectionate toward Pentax. Am I being stupid or is this the thought of many users at this time?
I'm half with ya. There is certainly a bit of, "its always greener" thought in my head. I'd love a FF sensor for the wider FOV and less noise at higher ISO's. But I don't have too many issues with the sensor performance as is. And AF-S works phenomenally well. I don't have any luck using AF-C, though, and would love to see some improvements there. That D750 is really tempting, though.
07-22-2015, 11:15 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
I really feel that what the D810 and 750 offer are far more superior than what Pentax has at the moment
But did you try things yourself? I don't know what camera you have, but you should test it against a) the best that Pentax is offering, and b) the camera you are thinking about switching to. You can try renting the camera or finding a local person that has it, so you can see it in hands. Just because you see some great photos taken with Nikon gear doesn't mean its just the gear - its the photographer that knows how to use it. I've seen some really great sports photos taken with manual focus, for example.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
and their range of FF lenses also
True, Canon and Nikon are producing more lenses than Pentax at the moment. And they have a little more third party support. Their legacy glass adaptability is generally not as good as Pentax'. But do you really need those extra lenses? I mean, its one thing if you need, for example, a 400mm f2.8 lens, something that Pentax doesn't have. But its another thing to just fantasize about the many, many lenses, even though you will never actually need or buy 98% of them. No point to switch to Nikon just to buy their cheapest 50mm, a kit zoom, and another lens that you already had in K-mount, you know?

I'd suggest you try to define exactly what is limiting you with your Pentax, in very specific terms. Which lens, specifically, do you need, that Pentax has no alternative for. And which AF mode, in which cases is not working well enough for you.

We had a couple of threads of people who also fantasized about other brands and moved to Nikon and Canon, particularly when those two brands introduced the "affordable" FF cameras (D600 and 6D?), and some of them expressed regret. Others started using both brands.
Its for you to decide, and Nikon certainly has some great gear out there. But a move is costly, especially if it turns out to be a mistake. Make sure you know exactly what you are doing, and why.

Oh, and I would definitely wait until the official FF specs come out. I expect they will update the lens roadmap around that time, as well. That could make current Pentax cameras more affordable, and inform you of what to expect with Pentax in the future. Maybe Nikon will lower some of their prices as a response, as well.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-22-2015 at 11:50 AM.
07-22-2015, 11:28 AM - 1 Like   #4
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I think one should wait for Pentax' FF introduction when holding up with that gear since 15 yrs ago... Unless you want to really go for sthg new (and that you could also do by renting or giving the set back within return period as I did once with a Canon). And anyway, the guy behind the device is the one who is the artist in the end... IMHO Pentax nowadays is only a tiny bit behind the leading brands in certain aspects related to lenses, handling and speed. That is not enough for me to change over to boring CaNikon - far too easy... ;-)) Meanwhile I love those little issues left over. In most cases there won't be any... Is it not just an emotional type of thing or even more a luxury matter we challenge our minds with every once in while?
@ Na horuk: You wrote my mind? I was late to press 'enter' on my post...;-)

07-22-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
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I think you should switch to Nikon.
07-22-2015, 12:06 PM   #6
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Interesting concern. A number of Pentax users may still have this concern and some of them already moved to another brand. For instance, I was following a Pentaxian from Pbase having a nice portfolio of model portraits and he switched from a K-5 to a D4s for the same style of photography. Although I did not understand the point to move to a 11 frames/s of D4s, while a D800 would have been largely sufficient IMHO. Regarding the K-5 and K-3, when used to their best they are good enough IMO, it's just that there is no much margin, to stay at the top image quality, as soom as lighting conditions or lenses are not among the bests, IQ tend to fall off a bit. Aside from users who specialize in wildlife photography with supertele lenses (and have the budget for it), where the choice of Pentax lenses is very limited, or a fear that the K mount won't survive (whenever Ricoh imaging would go out of business), there is no big reason to move to Nikon or Canon, between 15mm and 300mm, I don't think Nikon or Canon would make any difference on the photographs. However, for users who will transition to full frame, it's a tough deal if they have to invest in new lenses as well, then the Pentax FF must really be competitive , otherwise , it might be cheaper to equip with a Nikon FF system compared to a Pentax FF system. The current entry level Nikon FF offering is attractive for price, but features are no even as good as high-end APSC DSLR. To get a fully featured Nikon or Canon FF , it's again a lot of money to spend.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-22-2015 at 12:11 PM.
07-22-2015, 12:59 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Interesting concern. A number of Pentax users may still have this concern and some of them already moved to another brand. For instance, I was following a Pentaxian from Pbase having a nice portfolio of model portraits and he switched from a K-5 to a D4s for the same style of photography. Although I did not understand the point to move to a 11 frames/s of D4s, while a D800 would have been largely sufficient IMHO. Regarding the K-5 and K-3, when used to their best they are good enough IMO, it's just that there is no much margin, to stay at the top image quality, as soom as lighting conditions or lenses are not among the bests, IQ tend to fall off a bit. Aside from users who specialize in wildlife photography with supertele lenses (and have the budget for it), where the choice of Pentax lenses is very limited, or a fear that the K mount won't survive (whenever Ricoh imaging would go out of business), there is no big reason to move to Nikon or Canon, between 15mm and 300mm, I don't think Nikon or Canon would make any difference on the photographs. However, for users who will transition to full frame, it's a tough deal if they have to invest in new lenses as well, then the Pentax FF must really be competitive , otherwise , it might be cheaper to equip with a Nikon FF system compared to a Pentax FF system. The current entry level Nikon FF offering is attractive for price, but features are no even as good as high-end APSC DSLR. To get a fully featured Nikon or Canon FF , it's again a lot of money to spend.
You've knocked it on the head. Exactly my thoughts. If I am going to FF (which I will) I have to basically throw away my DA's and buy a new lot of lenses. So the reason to continue with Pentax better be a good one. My kit basically has to start from scratch so what's stopping me. Well, I would like to keep into my 50 A 1.7 and my 35 FA f2 which will go great, but my 16-50sdm and 55-300 I have to pretty much sell anyway. I am sorry but if I am going FF there is no way I am cropping, otherwise what's the point. As pointed out, apart from my lenses I am using a k5. A great body, but with an outdated sensor and for my needs has a slow AF and sometimes a tad inaccurate
07-22-2015, 01:07 PM   #8
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It seems to me that Canon and Nikon are living on their market position but aren't really challenging the future (talking about low-end FF). Just two examples: Nikon marketed d600 and d750 and quickly had to admit big problems that affected the products ( oil on the sensor isn't just what people want from a brand new or 2000 attuations camera)...; Canon made its new 50 mpx sensor that's a lot less performant compared to the "old" 36 mpx Sony sensors, according to Dxo. My opinion: if someone want to swich , maybe Sony A7 II is a more interesting and affordable choice than Nikon (and, if you have FA limiteds or other big value lenses, you can use them on it with the adapter). Otherwise is no sense going to Nikon instead of waiting for the coming new Pentax FF . Just my opinion. Regards!

07-22-2015, 01:11 PM   #9
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Can you show us some of your work? It's hard to judge just from reading your (rather general) statement whether you really would get different results when using a Nikon. So are there any pictures you are not really happy about that you can show, so we get an idea what should/could become better when using a different camera system?
07-22-2015, 01:12 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
You've knocked it on the head. Exactly my thoughts. If I am going to FF (which I will) I have to basically throw away my DA's and buy a new lot of lenses. So the reason to continue with Pentax better be a good one. My kit basically has to start from scratch so what's stopping me. Well, I would like to keep into my 50 A 1.7 and my 35 FA f2 which will go great, but my 16-50sdm and 55-300 I have to pretty much sell anyway. I am sorry but if I am going FF there is no way I am cropping, otherwise what's the point. As pointed out, apart from my lenses I am using a k5. A great body, but with an outdated sensor and for my needs has a slow AF and sometimes a tad inaccurate
Yes, that's it. However , when I look at the current FF offering from other brands, it's either very expensive or not so great. Sony A7, affordable, but used with a f4 zoom lens, basically, you get the same perf: with a K-3 and a f2.8 lens. D610/D750/6D, also affordable but have AA filters and poor AF. Remaining are D810 and 5DIII = big and super expensive. At the end of the day, a camera is not a car, personally I don't see how I could spend the price of a small car for a camera system.

---------- Post added 22-07-15 at 22:16 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by zeitlos Quote
Can you show us some of your work? It's hard to judge just from reading your (rather general) statement whether you really would get different results when using a Nikon. So are there any pictures you are not really happy about that you can show, so we get an idea what should/could become better when using a different camera system?
Yeah, clear , the difference is not so big between a FF and APSc (1 stop), but can still be appreciated. So was the difference between CDD sensors of the K20, and K7 and CMOS sensors of the K-5 and K-3 (approx. 1 stop better of intrinsic electrical perf.).

Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-22-2015 at 01:21 PM.
07-22-2015, 01:19 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
but my 16-50sdm and 55-300 I have to pretty much sell anyway.
The DFA 150-400mm won't be okay for your FF? Because switching to FF just to buy another kit 55-300mm is kind of pointless. You won't gain anything. Its usually better to invest in good glass before cameras. But you seem to have your mind made up. Have fun in Nikon land
07-22-2015, 01:27 PM   #12
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Can another FF system take a better photo than the upcoming Pentax FF? Probably not since Pentax will likely use the latest and greatest SONY sensor. No one really needs more than a few lenses and either Pentax will have enough or there will be third-party (read: Sigma) available. Pentax is better now than Canon or Nikon in some areas and worse in others (notably for me shooting HHS in daylight), so from a practical standpoint personal preferences reign supreme.


The real question is one of “agency.” Is the person hiring you expecting Canon or Nikon with “x” number of megapixels (they probably couldn’t tell one sensor from another), or do they just want their expectations met in regards to a good photo? Someone being hired by advertising agencies may want the name brands everyone knows. For those who let their images do the talking it shouldn’t matter. For those who want more for their $ spent, it will be impossible to beat Pentax if the FF is priced as aggressively as the 645Z. I am hoping it is.
07-22-2015, 01:29 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
The DFA 150-400mm won't be okay for your FF? Because switching to FF just to buy another kit 55-300mm is kind of pointless. You won't gain anything. Its usually better to invest in good glass before cameras. But you seem to have your mind made up. Have fun in Nikon land
Not sure , but I did not understand that Mattox decided anything. If I understood correctly, the point is that as soon as we "upgrade" from APSc to full frame, regardless of the brand, we have to reconsider our system. I think there was an article or video about "the full frame upgrate myth". So, if we want to use a full frame system, basically it's almost like buying a new system. In this case, the K mount loyalty does not play that much.

---------- Post added 22-07-15 at 22:32 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
For those who want more for their $ spent, it will be impossible to beat Pentax if the FF is priced as aggressively as the 645Z.
I know nothing about the price of the future Pentax FF, so I wait to see. If it's got a 42 Mpixel BSI , I don't think it's going to be any cheaper than competition.
07-22-2015, 01:33 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So was the difference between CDD sensors of the K20, and K7 and CMOS sensors of the K-5 and K-3
The K20D and K7 have CMOS sensors.
07-22-2015, 01:37 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
The K20D and K7 have CMOS sensors.
Really? Why was to high iso noise not so great with the 14Mpixels Samsung sensor? I've got to review this.
Yes that's right. I must be getting old ;-)
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