[benjikan]

Yeah, I said it! I just don't understand why somebody would pay $1000-1400 for a camera that isn't THAT much improved from the K10D.

Yes, it has a very nice sensor. I'll give it that much.

-Live view? It's been discussed. Some will use it, others will not. Some say they will use it, but never will.
-PC sync socket? A hot shoe adapter costs $20 or less.
-Dust alert system? Tiny improvement.
-Expanded Dynamic Range? Okay, this may come in handy for picky photographers or portraitists, but for the majority of us, there's Photoshop, GIMP, Aperture, Corel, etc.
-Custom image functions? This may just be my opinion, but whoop dee doo! Again, IMHO this is just for a picky photographer that doesn't want to post-process his/her pictures.
-Still sync speed is 180.
-2.7-inch LCD. Almost all the others are 3"
-Shake reduction system still anything but extraordinary.
-AND still only 3 FPS

Now, don't get me wrong. For the photographer who demands perfect IQ and huge-sized images, this is a great camera. But that's not everybody. The Canon 40D, Nikon D300, and Sony a-700 are all SO much better, judging by specs.

PLEASE note, though, that this was written by an owner of a K10D, not a K20D. I've never owned one. I do not mean to offend anybody by this; I'm only sharing my opinion, and starting a debate. People keep saying what they love about this camera, but IMHO it's not that big of an upgrade from the K10D. Good luck against 40D, D300, and A-700.

Yeah not worth it? I just shot a cover and a twelve page Fashion Editorial in Spring Magazine with the K20D, will be doing three (3) album covers and another Fashion Ad Campaign with my K20D's. As I am no longer sponsored by Pentax, I could have chosen any brand I wanted for the shoots. I chose the K20D's. There is a significant improvement with the K20D over the K10D especially at higher iso's. I do agree that at 100 iso the K10D is excellent. However the K20D does not show the cross hatching artifacts that the K10D does with it's Sony sensor. I find the colour rendition a kind of hybrid between the output of the Canon sensor and the Nikon D300 sensor but with slightly finer detail. Before passing judgement I suggest you spend a few hours at least and upload the images in to your computer and take a very close look at the output.

Ben

---

Last edited by benjikan; 06-16-2008 at 03:40 AM.

[Confused]

Hi Ernest (Jewelltrail)

It's been interesting to follow this thread, but thus far I can't recall reading anything concerning SR improvements between the K10D & the newer K20D:

5) The shake reduction is an improvement over the K10

Would you care to expand on this point, as I've always believed that the SR on the K10D is extremely good in it's own right !

Best regards
Richard

[vizjerei]

One day, some friends and I were walking around in Downtown Toronto and saw a Ferrari having a fun time stuck in the traffic, my friend ask why the h*ll someone want to pay that much $ to get a car like this to drive in a city street. I calmly reply him: "Because he can."

[*isteve]

Some people want it, some people dont. Like a lot of 30D owners are still waiting for a decent upgrade (not the 40D).

Pentax are not making the K20D to tempt K10D users into upgrading, they are making it to keep pace with a competitive market. They are quite happy for their K10D users to be buying glass right now

It keeps all the good bits from the K10D and adds a significant improvement in IQ, partly because of a new sensor and partly because you can fine tune focus on all lenses.

For some people thats enough, especially now the price has come down and Pentax are offering rebates. But more to the point at its price point it offers the IQ advantage over its immediate competition.

Yeah, I said it! I just don't understand why somebody would pay $1000-1400 for a camera that isn't THAT much improved from the K10D.

Yes, it has a very nice sensor. I'll give it that much.

-Live view? It's been discussed. Some will use it, others will not. Some say they will use it, but never will.
-PC sync socket? A hot shoe adapter costs $20 or less.
-Dust alert system? Tiny improvement.
-Expanded Dynamic Range? Okay, this may come in handy for picky photographers or portraitists, but for the majority of us, there's Photoshop, GIMP, Aperture, Corel, etc.
-Custom image functions? This may just be my opinion, but whoop dee doo! Again, IMHO this is just for a picky photographer that doesn't want to post-process his/her pictures.
-Still sync speed is 180.
-2.7-inch LCD. Almost all the others are 3"
-Shake reduction system still anything but extraordinary.
-AND still only 3 FPS

Now, don't get me wrong. For the photographer who demands perfect IQ and huge-sized images, this is a great camera. But that's not everybody. The Canon 40D, Nikon D300, and Sony a-700 are all SO much better, judging by specs.

PLEASE note, though, that this was written by an owner of a K10D, not a K20D. I've never owned one. I do not mean to offend anybody by this; I'm only sharing my opinion, and starting a debate. People keep saying what they love about this camera, but IMHO it's not that big of an upgrade from the K10D. Good luck against 40D, D300, and A-700.

[brothereye]

Sony A-700 owners have been plagued by their cameras hanging/freezing, requiring a hard reset. Or how about Nikon D300s that AF intermittently or won't AF at all, or for that matter the pretty poor battery performance. The 40D may have a bigger LCD but it is so-so resolution wise and Live View implementation is nothing to shout about.

Don't forget the AF problems with the Canon EOS-1D MkIII, and the weird image capture problems that D3 users had to deal with, and the dead battery syndrome that users have reported with the D300.

Thankfully the K20D to my knowledge is pretty problem free

Except for the hot-pixel issue, that Pentax has addressed with a firmware update.

Most of this just goes to show that almost any sufficiently intricate and complex product may have a bug or two to work out. I certainly wouldn't have a problem buying a K20D, except I can't afford one. If I had all the lenses I wanted(about three more than I currently have, perpetually), I would buy a K20D. The expanded ISO range is nice, EDR feature would be nice when I wanted it, don't care much about live view (it may actually be an offense against nature), 3fps is fine for me, I don't need my DSLR to fire at the rate of machine gun, although I know some people do need more than 3fps.

That said, I can't say I'm rushing to dump my current DLSR kit (K10D/K100D/*istDS) so I can replace it all with a K20D. I have to say the K10D may have been almost too good, and it is too bad it had to be replaced due to marketing concerns. The fact is that if Pentax hadn't replaced the K10D, they would have started facing criticism from lots of sources about the "old" "outdated" K10D. (Point of argument, PopPhoto lauded the Nikon D40, but only a few months later, bemoaned that the 6MP sensor in the K100D Super was paltry compared to other models on the market. Feh! I know I personally don't get too concerned with what PopPhoto says, if you read carefully and compare to the lab results you often find discrepancies, but there are people who read PopPhoto and take it as the TRUTH of all things) Whether the criticism would have been valid doesn't matter(despite the fact that Canon JUST upgraded their mid-range model to 10MP from 8MP near the end of 2007.)

So the K10D had to be replaced for competitive reasons, but that doesn't mean I have to replace my K10D, I'm still happy with it. I wouldn't mind adding a K20D, maybe, but like I said, as a hobbyist, I can't really justify it, I mean I hardly push the K10D to it's limits. Having said all that, the last time I found a new K10D body, it was only about $100 less than the K20D, and that makes the K20D look pretty nice. It also means that my K10D has appreciated, since used bodies go for more now as well.

[Peter Zack]

I don't get the point of this thread in some ways? To just stir up the pot? I don't own the K20D but will get one when the funds allow. This new body has addressed a number of things that I want in a camera. I bet the next veresion will address the one last major issue for some others - Higher FPS. I will keep my K10D because it's still a great camera, this model just makes things that much better.
For me the big features are:
High ISO shooting + 2 stops is a huge deal.
Ben's comment on cross hatching is something I see in many shots and if the sensor can eliminate that, again a huge deal. Cropping without as much loss is also a big improvement.
PC socket was needed and a big deal for some of us.
K10D shake reduction is great and any added improvments make it even better.
Extended dynamic range is always a plus. The more the better. My K10D still can't come close to good slide film with an LX (nevermind the 6x7) in dynamic range.
Having just gotten my K10D back from Service with an AF adjustment. Having 20 lens user presets is worth the price alone. It's like I have a new camera and being able to do this myself instead of loosing the camera for 3 weeks - invaluable.

These are only a few reasons that this camera makes perfect sense and a great evolution from the earlier bodies.

[Gooshin]

the OP is a fool

if he thinks he is getting ripped by Pentax for paying 1000 dollars for their camera, then by all means, go purchase something else.

[Parallax]

Whether anything is worth it's price is up to one person, and one person only. The one paying for it!
It isn't for onlookers and bystanders to determine.

[Lowell Goudge]

Since this was intended as a post to stirr the waters, I'll add my 2 cents worth.

I am an *istD and K10D owner, yet am not jumping through hoops to go out and get a K20D. Here's why, and I believe I have posted these reasons already.

When the K10D came out, it was a significant upgrade from the *istD in terms of
- higher resolution
- shake reduction
- much faster processing (3 fps continuous vs a very slow processor on the *idtD)
- support for HSM in the future
It offered a LOT compared to other cameras. Note I did not go out and get a K100D because from my simple perspective, shake reduction only and remaining at 6MP did not justify a new camera.

Similairly, today, while I will ultimately get a new camera at some point, it may not be a K20D, because I can't justify a change. The K10D does most things I need.

Havinf said that, I would be interested in a new body, and perhaps replace my *istD, but if that is the case the new body would need to have the following, which the K20D does not have.

- TTL Flash, so that I can do flash photography with advanced metering using my K series lenses (one reason I keep the *istD)
- Accurate metering with manual lenses

Until then, I will sit and use my *istD and K10D as a complementary pair. The change in MP and high ISO have not been enough to make me move yet. Perhapos when the price drops further, but just not now.

[FastPhotography]

Smells like a troll post, but maybe not since you are an actual Pentax owner, so I'll bite:

You conveniently forgot to list the biggest advantage of the k20d over the k10d: 2 stops more ISO capability. I have both cameras, so don't tell me this isn't a big deal. k20d beats the k10d at 1600, and will produce useable shots to iso 6400. Search a bit on this forum and you will see the comparisons and tests.

Just a few threads you should consider:

Here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/27927-pentax-k20d-...o-gallery.html

Here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/26796-k20d-high-is...00-6400-a.html

Here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/27118-k10d-vs-k20d-iso-1600-test.html

Yes sir, I am a Pentax owner, and proud to be haha. I will stay with Pentax as long as I can. Hopefully they can produce a top-line pro camera comparable to the D3 or 1D mkIII soon, because I see myself going there in a few years. I still love Pentax, so don't get me wrong about that

I just think that this camera could have had some better improvements. The IQ is fabulous. Crystal clear pictures, I realize this. If I had a need for billboard-size pictures, I'd jump on this camera ASAP

As for high ISOs, yes, I did not mention that in my post. I hate...nay...loathe ISO noise, so I always stay away from high ISOs. Nevertheless, 3200 and 6400 are worth mentioning, regardless of how I would probably never use it. And I must say, for an APS-C size 14mp sensor, it handles ISOs very well, regardless of whether or not I would use it.

[FastPhotography]

Since this was intended as a post to stirr the waters, I'll add my 2 cents worth.

I am an *istD and K10D owner, yet am not jumping through hoops to go out and get a K20D. Here's why, and I believe I have posted these reasons already.

When the K10D came out, it was a significant upgrade from the *istD in terms of
- higher resolution
- shake reduction
- much faster processing (3 fps continuous vs a very slow processor on the *idtD)
- support for HSM in the future
It offered a LOT compared to other cameras. Note I did not go out and get a K100D because from my simple perspective, shake reduction only and remaining at 6MP did not justify a new camera.

Similairly, today, while I will ultimately get a new camera at some point, it may not be a K20D, because I can't justify a change. The K10D does most things I need.

Havinf said that, I would be interested in a new body, and perhaps replace my *istD, but if that is the case the new body would need to have the following, which the K20D does not have.

- TTL Flash, so that I can do flash photography with advanced metering using my K series lenses (one reason I keep the *istD)
- Accurate metering with manual lenses

Until then, I will sit and use my *istD and K10D as a complementary pair. The change in MP and high ISO have not been enough to make me move yet. Perhapos when the price drops further, but just not now.

Definitely. It's good to see somebody else thinks the way I do! I can definitely relate to inaccurate metering with manual lenses. I can't use Av on my Tak300/4 because sometimes it's more than 2 stops wrong!
I agree with you, sir

[FastPhotography]

Whether anything is worth it's price is up to one person, and one person only. The one paying for it!
It isn't for onlookers and bystanders to determine.

This is correct. This is a forum site. I'm only sharing my opinion, and shaking up the waters a little bit

the OP is a fool

if he thinks he is getting ripped by Pentax for paying 1000 dollars for their camera, then by all means, go purchase something else.

Whoa, whoa whoa. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just starting a debate here. This a forums site, I think I'm allowed to do that

[FastPhotography]

I don't get the point of this thread in some ways? To just stir up the pot? I don't own the K20D but will get one when the funds allow. This new body has addressed a number of things that I want in a camera. I bet the next veresion will address the one last major issue for some others - Higher FPS. I will keep my K10D because it's still a great camera, this model just makes things that much better.
For me the big features are:
High ISO shooting + 2 stops is a huge deal.
Ben's comment on cross hatching is something I see in many shots and if the sensor can eliminate that, again a huge deal. Cropping without as much loss is also a big improvement.
PC socket was needed and a big deal for some of us.
K10D shake reduction is great and any added improvments make it even better.
Extended dynamic range is always a plus. The more the better. My K10D still can't come close to good slide film with an LX (nevermind the 6x7) in dynamic range.
Having just gotten my K10D back from Service with an AF adjustment. Having 20 lens user presets is worth the price alone. It's like I have a new camera and being able to do this myself instead of loosing the camera for 3 weeks - invaluable.

These are only a few reasons that this camera makes perfect sense and a great evolution from the earlier bodies.

And not everybody is the same! haha, I just don't think these features are worth it for me. If these things are a big deal for you, by all means, AWESOME! Go get it, I'm sure you'll be very happy with it!
And yes, this post was just to stir up the pot a little bit. There were like 20 posts in a row that said how much everybody loved their K20D.

[Gooshin]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just starting a debate here. This a forums site, I think I'm allowed to do that

no, you are not starting a "debate"

you are calling out all the K20D users (and those that desire one) to defend their purchase.

and, within the first sentence of your original post you dismiss the most important reason for purchasing the K20D! "ohh the sensor is nice and all..."

it seems to me that you dont want a camera, what you want is a feature filled gadget box thinga majig that doesnt cost alot so you can show off to all your friends how cool you are.

i bet you if the K20D had a button that made it do a whirring noise you would be all over that like white on rice.

[FastPhotography]

Yeah not worth it? I just shot a cover and a twelve page Fashion Editorial in Spring Magazine with the K20D, will be doing three (3) album covers and another Fashion Ad Campaign with my K20D's. As I am no longer sponsored by Pentax, I could have chosen any brand I wanted for the shoots. I chose the K20D's. There is a significant improvement with the K20D over the K10D especially at higher iso's. I do agree that at 100 iso the K10D is excellent. However the K20D does not show the cross hatching artifacts that the K10D does with it's Sony sensor. I find the colour rendition a kind of hybrid between the output of the Canon sensor and the Nikon D300 sensor but with slightly finer detail. Before passing judgement I suggest you spend a few hours at least and upload the images in to your computer and take a very close look at the output.

Ben

Okay, you are an exception
You do actually use all of those 14mp, and doing magazine covers and jobs on assignment that demand A++ IQ, so I don't even question why you use the K20D. And if I had your job, your assignments, and such, I'd get the K20D without hesitation. I just thought I'd throw in another opinion to the forum

Although I must say, I have a feeling I'll get the K30D when it comes out. Or the next generation high-end Pentax, whatever the name will be.